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Old 03-03-2013, 04:18 PM   #1
DavidPartay
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Inspiration

Been feeling a bit flat lately due to having to play lame covers with the band... Anyway! We had a gig the other night and it perked up my enthusiasm which is a good thing. So I decided I want to start working on Native Metal again as it contains many examples of the sorts of fills I want to be able to improvise.

So I just had a listen through the song while reading the transcription and let's just say... my mind was blown once again, seeing what Virgil was doing back in the 90s, and how much more ground I need to cover

Hopefully I'll be able to keep the momentum up and maintain my enthusiasm again
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:16 AM   #2
Matthias
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Native Metal really is one of Virgil's performances that floor me most, too!
But if you want to be able to pull of fills like that you have to be able to eat
broken quintuplet figures orchestrated on the whole drumkit for breakfast!!
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:42 AM   #3
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just watch Virgil for inspiration... : )
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:34 AM   #4
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Matthias - yes, indeed! I feel that the day I can play Native Metal is the day I've finally become 'good enough' :P. There are a lot of concepts in the song that I'm having fun learning, even if I can't play it all up to speed, I'm getting lots of practise ideas that are blending well with stuff I've already worked on in the past. The difference is that Virgil already found the awesome ways to spice it up and apply it around the kit.

The other thing that I've finally been able to comprehend is how Virgil gets that particular drum sound on the entire SYI album. It's the way he mixes the accents with ghost notes around the entire kit. I've always had a lot of difficulty figuring out why his fills sounded totally different to everyone else's. I've known about linear fills and your typical 2 on hands/2 on feet variations, etc., for some time now, but still couldn't figure out why it didn't sound the same. Now it makes more sense, and I am stealing ideas >.>
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:38 AM   #5
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Yeah his phrasing is out of this world!
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:44 AM   #6
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Funny you're working on Native Metal these days David! I am too. This is my latest home recording of it.

https://soundcloud.com/franktinge/otvnativemetal

We're gonna play this one with Relocator live next month. It needs a bit more work, but I'm quite happy I managed to play throught the song without messing up.

Don't shred my puny drumskills to pieces guys. The stuff Virgil plays is out of this world. I've come to appreciate this song even more now I've learned to play it. And that's not even taking into account all the sick fills he plays. What a brilliant piece of music!
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frank
Funny you're working on Native Metal these days David! I am too. This is my latest home recording of it.

https://soundcloud.com/franktinge/otvnativemetal

We're gonna play this one with Relocator live next month. It needs a bit more work, but I'm quite happy I managed to play throught the song without messing up.

Don't shred my puny drumskills to pieces guys. The stuff Virgil plays is out of this world. I've come to appreciate this song even more now I've learned to play it. And that's not even taking into account all the sick fills he plays. What a brilliant piece of music!


Relocator is amazing!
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:40 AM   #8
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I'm dying to hear Virgils album. I've been listening to the soundcloud demo over and over and that 2nd song just sounds brilliant.

Does anyone know when it's going to drop?
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:27 AM   #9
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Thanks Mojo!

Dre: Last thing I heard was this year.
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:58 PM   #10
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Did y

Did you hear "this year" this year or last year?
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:14 AM   #11
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I heard next year last year.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:07 AM   #12
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Frank, Nice job on native metal. That's not an easy tune to play.
Wish the track had been a little louder, but basically you nailed it,
man!

Way to go.

David,

It may be you see the covers you're doing as lame because
you're looking at it from somewhat of a selfish perspective.

Is it the chops and all the slick tricks that makes a good drummer
or is it the ability to be a part of what makes the music happen on
a real positive level? I've discovered over the years that there is
music we like and music we don't like. Yet there are musical elements
within both situations that make them work and say the intended.

I was at one of Billy Cobham's band rehearsals as they prepared for an
upcoming show and at the end of a tune they had just gone over Billy said:

"It's correct, but it ain't right."

As oxymoronish as that sounds it really makes a lot of sense. All the
notes can be in the proper places, the meter and volume levels can be
spot on. But it's not saying much if the musical expression isn't there.

When I listen to Virgil, like the rest of you, I'm floored by what he does.
But I find myself listening more to what Virg SAYS behind the kit than what
he DOES. I'm not so caught up in his technical skills as much as I am with
what he says with them in conjunction with every other aspect involved in
making the music what it's meant to be.

99% of the time we're behind the drums, it's not about indulging ourselves.
It's about striving to be a part of what makes the music work as a whole and
that may mean (and in most cases does mean) not having the luxuray of
unleashing our technical arsenal. But if the music is better for it, then it's
still okay and is a good thing.

I'm a music maker. So I enjoy listening to Virgil's work with the likes of Tina
Arena just as much as I enjoy listening to him do the progressive material.
Virg's technical skills are extraordinary.
But what I like most about him is that he makes music with those skills.

We can all go on youtube and find chops-masters 24-7...

"Don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing."
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:28 AM   #13
DavidPartay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D. Slam
It may be you see the covers you're doing as lame because
you're looking at it from somewhat of a selfish perspective.

Is it the chops and all the slick tricks that makes a good drummer
or is it the ability to be a part of what makes the music happen on
a real positive level? I've discovered over the years that there is
music we like and music we don't like. Yet there are musical elements
within both situations that make them work and say the intended.


I can see how my comment could have been interpreted that way, however that wasn't my intention .

I'll give you an example... We are covering Dream Theater songs (and a few others). Specifically: Forsaken, To Live Forever, Wither, I Walk Beside You, the second half of the Count of Tuscany, and their COVER versions of Perfect Strangers and Stargazer.

Well, I don't know about you guys but when I was informed for my rehearsals to join the band that these were the songs I'll need to learn - I was a bit disappointed. With the exception of the Count of Tuscany and To Live Forever, to me the other songs are some of the most 'generic' sounding Dream Theater songs about. I was never a fan of I Walk Beside You because I can't stand U2 and it reminds me of them way too much... Wither is alright, but Portnoy's drumming in the verses IMO is way over the top (I simplify a lot of his drumming), and to be honest, I get bored playing it as much as I try to pour myself into it. Forsaken is actually pretty cool, I guess, but still just isn't the same as say - Fatal Tragedy, or Pull Me Under.

I don't really want to go into the whole idea of covering covers, either :P.

I would like to say though, that no matter what I'm playing, I put 110% into it - mind, body and spirit. No matter how much I dislike the music, for my own personal satisfaction beyond anything else I want it to sound as good as I can make it. So, when it comes to us playing Judgment Day by Whitesnake (I thought we were a prog band? :P) - I see it as 5 minutes of "I really have to nail this '1/8th note Rock Beat Exercise #1' and make it TIGHT and AWESOME. I don't see it as "Oh, this is going to be 5 minutes of boredom.". The guys even told me that I appeared to be concentrating the hardest in Judgment Day more than any of the other songs.

tl;dr version: I want to play Dream Theater songs like On the Backs of Angels :P because they represent both what I hear in Dream Theater, but also what I want to hear out of my own band.

On the topic of Native Metal, I found this Bulgarian dude having an awesome go at it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKrOY9URVM

Could do with a little polishing but he's nailing all the parts quite nicely It was 4 years ago so I posted a comment to the effect of that I would like to hear what I can do with Virgil's stuff now


By the way, Frank - finally had a chance to listen to you playing Native Metal - I love the sound you get out of your drums good effort! Even though it's not the best recording quality, your playing has an organic feel, it's not cold and 'dead' sounding like a lot of what I seem to be hearing these days.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:26 AM   #14
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I like Frank's version better. This kid's timing is a bit suspect.
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Old 03-09-2013, 12:10 PM   #15
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Yep, I agree, but the other guy is playing the whole thing note for note by the transcription... a bit of polish and it'll be spot on. I think the only other person I've heard (besides Virgil) play Native Metal note for note is Travis Orbin.
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