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Old 01-28-2006, 03:53 AM   #1
C.J.
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Your advice please.

Hello drumfriends,

I have mainly two questions for you guys that are quite euh...precise.
The first concerning Vic Firth drum sticks, and the second about Sabian
china cymbals.

1) At the moment I use the Vic Firth Classic Rock sticks. I am considering
using a thinner and lighter stick model for a more "controlled" sound. Right
now I play in a lot of places where I have to have a softer touch than usual.
Even though I can play softer with the sticks I am using now, I feel I could
deliver more potential (i.e. not looking like I'm affraid to break the kit or
cymbals when I hit them) using a lighter model.

I looked on the Internet for models that could suit me judging by their length
and diameter and the Vic Firth Billy Cobham sitcks caught my eye; I need
sticks that are still quite thick and these are 0.605" in diameter.

I do not have the possibility to try them in store since they do not have them
right now so to get a little idea and before bothering the dudes at the store
by asking them to order a load, I would like to know:

For those who may use/have used this model how are they balanced? Could
you please give a short but precise review of them?

The Classic Rock sticks have the weight balanced towards the neck of the
stick and this is the kind of feel I'm looking for.


2) I'm looking for a new china cymbal right now. I really dig the sound of the
Zildjian Oriental chinas BUT I only use Sabian cymbals and I just can't mix up
brands on my kit (I'm a bit of a perfection freak sorry ).

Would any of you guys be able to recomend me a cymbal from Sabian that
comes the closest as possible to the sound of the Oriental chinas?

Thanks you for your time, and my apologies for the long post.

Regards,
Christopher J. Adams.

Last edited by C.J. : 01-28-2006 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 01-28-2006, 05:12 AM   #2
davidseung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.

2) I'm looking for a new china cymbal right now. I really dig the sound of the
Zildjian Oriental chinas BUT I only use Sabian cymbals and I just can't mix up
brands on my kit (I'm a bit of a perfection freak sorry ).

Would any of you guys be able to recomend me a cymbal from Sabian that
comes the closest as possible to the sound of the Oriental chinas?

Thanks you for your time, and my apologies for the long post.

Regards,
Christopher J. Adams.




heheh! ask this question at the zone forums at sabian.com.


They're really good at doing this... sometimes the sabian staff even come and answer the question. and if they cant find anything that sounds similar, they will custom make one for you at no extra charge!
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Old 01-28-2006, 05:35 AM   #3
morgenthaler
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I wouldn't go lighter for sticks!
You'll get the better (warmer) sound from bigger sticks.
Just keep playing and practicing and you'll be able to play soft with heavier sticks as well.

If you like the Zildjians....why not buy them? I wouldn't worry too much about mixing brands. I think it has nothing to do with 'perfection'. That would only limit your sound possibilities!
Personally I would look into the O-Zones from Sabian. I love their trashy sound.
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Last edited by morgenthaler : 01-28-2006 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 01-28-2006, 05:37 AM   #4
DavidPartay
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I personally think every single Zildjian Chinese sounds terrible, but that's just me. My recommendation would be look at an AAX Thin Chinese.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:46 AM   #5
madmike
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I used to be the saem way about mixing cymbals. But really, unless you are sponsored you'd be crazy not to. If a cymbal company has cymbals you like, then buy them.

I also love the Ozone Crashes, I have one myself. Go to the Sabian website...they have sound samples of all their cymbals. If you can't find one, buy the Zildjian.

And if having a Zildjian really bothers you that much, do what Neil Perat always did (before the Paragons) and take some acetone and remove the Zildjian logos from it.
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Old 01-28-2006, 08:57 AM   #6
peter
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Try VF Omar Hakim's.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:34 AM   #7
bateria
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For the chinese, the AAX or HHX series chinas are going to come the closest to the oriental china trash. They have the brilliant finish and brighter sound like the zildjian model.
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Old 01-28-2006, 12:11 PM   #8
percusski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peter
Try VF Omar Hakim's.


I used to use the Omar sticks but moved onto Vater fusion wood tips, the balance is perfect, they almost play themselves, nice cymbal sound too! I tried the vinnie sticks recently and they felt quite nice too.
As for chinas, I have a Zildjian 20" and a 12" oriental china trash and both have a great sound. I also have a 17" K china boy low and that is a beauty. One of the best chinese sounds I heard was a Ufip 20" natural china, it would have worked in any situation but at around £300 i couldn't justify it. there's always ebay i suppose.
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:32 PM   #9
Kinetic drummer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidseung
heheh! ask this question at the zone forums at sabian.com.


They're really good at doing this... sometimes the sabian staff even come and answer the question. and if they cant find anything that sounds similar, they will custom make one for you at no extra charge!


can they really customize??
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:33 PM   #10
Kinetic drummer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidPartay
I personally think every single Zildjian Chinese sounds terrible, but that's just me. My recommendation would be look at an AAX Thin Chinese.



you´re wrong!
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Old 01-28-2006, 02:54 PM   #11
C.J.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidseung
heheh! ask this question at the zone forums at sabian.com.


They're really good at doing this... sometimes the sabian staff even come and answer the question. and if they cant find anything that sounds similar, they will custom make one for you at no extra charge!

I'll ask there then, but I won't do a special order the delay is 6 months!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgenthaler
I wouldn't go lighter for sticks!
You'll get the better (warmer) sound from bigger sticks.
Just keep playing and practicing and you'll be able to play soft with heavier sticks as well.

If you like the Zildjians....why not buy them? I wouldn't worry too much about mixing brands. I think it has nothing to do with 'perfection'. That would only limit your sound possibilities!
Personally I would look into the O-Zones from Sabian. I love their trashy sound.


Jeppe, like I said, I can play soft with my sticks, but with lighter models I have the feeling I could "hit harder" without making a 100db earthquake of noise if you get what I mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmike
I used to be the same way about mixing cymbals. But really, unless you are sponsored you'd be crazy not to. If a cymbal company has cymbals you like, then buy them.

I also love the Ozone Crashes, I have one myself. Go to the Sabian website...they have sound samples of all their cymbals. If you can't find one, buy the Zildjian.

And if having a Zildjian really bothers you that much, do what Neil Peart always did (before the Paragons) and take some acetone and remove the Zildjian logos from it.


I do not trust the sound samples from Sabian, they seem to be mixed as hell and do not reflet the REAL sound of Sabians cymbals.

And really I do not want to mix brands up, I just can't do that. I guess that means I'm crazy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bateria
For the chinese, the AAX or HHX series chinas are going to come the closest to the oriental china trash. They have the brilliant finish and brighter sound like the zildjian model.


I don't know for the HHX series, but so far what I have tried from the AAX series is far from the sound of Orientals - at least, that is how it sounded to my ears. I'll have to try out that AAX thin china though!
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Old 01-28-2006, 04:48 PM   #12
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Have you tried the AAXtreme chinese? To me, that looks the closest you'll get to the Oriental China "Trash"--they are both thin, brilliant finished chinas designed for quick, trashy attack as opposed to the long "pannnnnng" of other chinas. And remember chinas sound different in person than they do on CDs or through a sound system. You get a lot more "pang" and less trash when you play the china alone.
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Old 01-29-2006, 12:37 AM   #13
DrumsAreGood
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I use the Peart model Pro-Marks. They are not terribly thin.. 5A I believe but I love the way they feel. To me they are like that just right bowl of porrage (spelling? hah)

I am having a big issue with doing the only sabian thing as I am also looking for a high hat I like better than the Zildjian one I have now. So far I haven't. I just don't know. To me I don't think Sabian are as good in the high hat and china brands as Zildjian.
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Old 01-29-2006, 04:56 AM   #14
C.J.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bateria
Have you tried the AAXtreme chinese? To me, that looks the closest you'll get to the Oriental China "Trash"--they are both thin, brilliant finished chinas designed for quick, trashy attack as opposed to the long "pannnnnng" of other chinas. And remember chinas sound different in person than they do on CDs or through a sound system. You get a lot more "pang" and less trash when you play the china alone.


I have a 17" AAXtreme china, and I'm not very satisfied with it's
natural sound. So I stacked it with a 8" splash and now I feel it
sounds ok.
As bizarre as it may seem, I don't feel the AAXtreme chinas sound
close to Orientals... Maybe a misperception of mine?
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Old 01-29-2006, 06:29 AM   #15
Blast_Duck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bateria
Have you tried the AAXtreme chinese? To me, that looks the closest you'll get to the Oriental China "Trash"--they are both thin, brilliant finished chinas designed for quick, trashy attack as opposed to the long "pannnnnng" of other chinas. And remember chinas sound different in person than they do on CDs or through a sound system. You get a lot more "pang" and less trash when you play the china alone.



i bought this cymbal (17") after i heard it during a clinic. It is great for short and sharp accenting, very 'bright'...kind of a musical trashcan lid
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