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Old 10-11-2003, 08:18 PM   #1
quitou
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Minnemann's Extreme Interdependence

Hey Guys,

Anybody here going through Marco Minnemann's Extreme Interdependence book??? If so, how is it going for you??? I was flying through it until today...I am now trying to play the triplet melodies over top of the sixteenth note patterns (not 16th note triplets but straight sixteenths)...

It was smooth sailing until I hit this point...now, it's like I hit a road block...it's gonna take some serious time to get through it...
it's basically like playing 3 over 4 polyrhythm but in crazy combinations (trying to play this rhythm with every possible limb combination)...it is killer hard!!!

If anybody has gone through this book and specifically through this part, do you have any suggestions for making it go a bit more smoothly???

I know for sure if I ever master this book, I'm going to have the most amazing 4 way coordination...the problem is actually mastering the book....One step at a time!!!
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Old 10-11-2003, 08:24 PM   #2
quitou
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I am not having too much trouble when it is separated between the hands and the feet (for example, playing triplets with the hands and 16th's with the feet, or triplets with the feet and 16th's with the hands)...this 3 over combo is not too much trouble...

But...where it gets hard is when it gets divided differently...for example playing the triplets between the right hand and right foot, and the 16th's between the LH and LF...or triplets between RH and LF, and 16th's between LH and RF...etc, etc...
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Old 10-11-2003, 11:46 PM   #3
swedendrummer
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hello!! i have recently bought this book and i think is really worth it! i now work on the double stroke pattern between all limbs and but eights notes sixteens triplets so on on that.. it will take time but i now i t will be worth it!
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Old 10-12-2003, 02:14 AM   #4
DoubleBass_Rob
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This is such an awesome book, because of other studies, I haven't been able to focus on it. Last time I was just working through the 16th note ostenatos.
As far as your predicament goes, try to hear the 16ths and the triplets against the pulse. Make sure it all locks in, because the triplets and 16ths won't lock in with each other.
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Old 10-12-2003, 03:13 AM   #5
jonberg
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Ive worked a lot on those exercises, especially the paradiddlevariations. I play them with RH/LF, RF/LH, LF/LH or RF/RH and improvise with my other half. I worked most on the RH/LF with my RH on an x-hihat and my LF with my mainhihat and then improvise with different figures...16ths and triplets and so on, and I worked a lot on the RF/LH with bassdrum and snare as well.
The hardest thing for me was to let go of the written patterns that was the "melodies" and just improvise instead. Now, after working on it everyday in about 1year, its starting to get really comfortable. Playing triplets against the patterns was not that hard, just take it slow and record yourself playing to it...you hear after awhile how you must phrase the triplets. Playing the paradiddlepattern and then improvise with the other half playing paradiddles in triplets was a challenge but it sounds really cool.

The last couple of months I work on the 7stroke figures and trying to improvise over it, and THAT is hard. Its much more complicated to improvise over a oddtime figure because it has a different downbeat and you gotta let go of the 4/4 in your head.Listen to Virgils opening solo on the TUDW dvd with his 5/8 pattern, thats mindblowing!!!

Im gonna record some grooves Id come up with this concept and put it here so I can get your opinion...you do the same, this is a really cool technique that everyone should try out.

Cheers!
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Old 10-15-2003, 09:55 PM   #6
Arf!
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Ok, somebody PLEASE help me with this . . .

I'm also working on Extreme Interdependence (well, I got it last year, played through the warm ups, and decided it was a bit much at the time). Would you reccommend working out every melody for every pattern (156 patterns in all)? Or maybe something else? I'd just like to know an approx amount of time (seeing as how I'll be working on this specifically at least 90 minutes a day, 6 days a week), so I can set a reasonable time to achieve goals that I set.

Any suggestions are much appreciated as always.
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Old 06-21-2004, 04:43 AM   #7
swedendrummer
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Marco is releasing a new book in july! Fantastic...extreme interdependence was a sucess wonder how this would be!
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Old 06-21-2004, 05:35 AM   #8
El Salsero
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Hey,
I think that only with the first page of the 16th notes pattern i could practise all my life..and i have so much other books !!!!! lol
Practise !
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Old 06-22-2004, 09:44 AM   #9
Brobjer
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This is just the best book. But the value in it is not how much time you spend practicing it, but HOW you practice and with what type of routine you use.
I've developed a nine hour a day schedule this summer, and will take this book as my big priority. That, although, doesn't mean that I'll spend 8 of those 9 hours working in E.I, as I've experienced that short practice sessions cycled with different exercises gives much more than long 3 hour practice sessions on solving 1 problem. I might work on E.I for 15 minutes and switch to rudimental snare practice for 15 minutes, to then switch back to E.I again. The mind has to always be 120% focused, and need time so solve problems.

Example) You practice a paraddidle between your RF and RH overlapped with a fiveadiddle with your LF and LH, which means that it will go equal in 5 bars and start over again. Say that you're practicing this for 2 hours until you finally solve it. Then say you practice it for 15 minutes 100% focused, take a break and return to the problem 2 hours later, again for 15 minutes of pure focusing. You will notify a greater ease of playing it, because the brain has worked on the problem during your break, AND you have been focused all the way, instead of 2 hours of nonsense practicing. 15 times 2 is 30 minutes and is only a quarter to 2 hours. This method sounds insane till you try it.

Why 15 minutes?
- The mind just can't stay focused 100% for a longer period. If you want to have longer practice sessions, then remember to take breaks and work parallell with other exercises to always be focused.

//Brobjer www.andreasbrobjer.cjb.net
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:46 AM   #10
El Salsero
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Wow, thanx Brobjer !!!!!
Great method !!
Flo
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:10 AM   #11
Brobjer
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Great El Salsero!
Try it! As soon as you feel unconcentrated, take a break. But concentration and dicipline takes time to develop, so always try to concentrate like if you'd have Virgil standing next to you checking out your skills. In time you'll notice a greater ease to concentrate and be able to have longer fully focused sessions. And most important; Even if you manage an exercise doesn't mean that you're done with it.
As Marco quotes;
- "Practice it until every pattern is second nature".
And as M. Mangini says;
- "Often, you'd have to practice an exercise 5 times longer than you think until it beomes a natural part of your improvising", and that is the whole point of it, right?
- To repeat it into your improvising skills, because otherwise you'll have no use for it.

/Brobjer

www.andreasbrobjer.cjb.net
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Old 06-24-2004, 06:19 PM   #12
Adam
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Brobjer

I must applaud you...9 hours? I've actually schedueld an 8-hour-a-day practice scheduel for myself this summer, instead of getting a job (ahh, the advantages of being a teenager at home), from first thing in the morning until early evening. That's awsome man! But I'm afraid I'll have to out do you and make mine a 10 hour a day practice scheduel...haha
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Old 06-25-2004, 01:04 AM   #13
Paas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam
I've actually schedueld an 8-hour-a-day practice scheduel for myself this summer, instead of getting a job (ahh, the advantages of being a teenager at home), from first thing in the morning until early evening.


Same here! I was ment to be working this summer but I'm home now every day playing the drums.
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Old 01-09-2005, 09:17 AM   #14
polydrums
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Marco Book

I have been working on it for over 4 1/2 years every combo its a great tool for concentration for not only drumming but life in general I also work on to other books that are also good for the mind The Unreel Drum book by Marc Atkinson and the New breed books 1 & 2 by Gary Chester and Chris adams also the all the Patterns book by Gary Chaffee the key to understanding Drumming is understand time its self . my goal is to finish the Marco book there is also a play along book by Marco that is out now through WB music .
I hope in the future that Virgil get in to more detial on how he leans his combo patterns and how is uses them in a solo ,he started to do that on master clases but he never did a Video on it yet . everybody has a job they have to do in life but a dream that you can dream is the best fourm of progress .
I wish everybody good luck I have been a Member since this web sight started
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Old 01-09-2005, 09:49 AM   #15
Xen-
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Virgil's way to write down four limb coordination exercises is much clearer than Marco's. What I do is take Xtreme Interdependence exercises and re-write them using the layers system. No exercise should take more than a few hours to play without being read. Like Marco said, anyone can do it, so the challenge is to make it sound musical and effortless. I think it's the easiest way to develop ostinatos.
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