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Old 06-11-2004, 12:35 PM   #16
Kinetic drummer
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Once i practiced on a rubber pad, and the bounce was too much. i couldnt handle it. in pillows we take the riskto have lesions or injuries. whats better i think is a tom. im practicing now double strokes in a floor tom.
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Old 06-11-2004, 12:46 PM   #17
Shane G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinetic drummer
Once i practiced on a rubber pad, and the bounce was too much. i couldnt handle it. in pillows we take the riskto have lesions or injuries. whats better i think is a tom. im practicing now double strokes in a floor tom.

the bounce was too much No it wasnt. You just havent learned how to follow it. You have to relax your hand enough so that you can follow the rebound, but not choke it.

im practicing now double strokes in a floor tom Ok...but...unless you play floor tom primarily in your kit instead of SD, your still at a disadvantage. Your floor tom isnt going to be at the same tension your snare is. And correct me if Im wrong, but you play snare more than floor tom on gigs, right?

Again...practice on actual drums, or rubber practice pads. Practicing on anything else wont make you any "better" at drums.

Last edited by Shane G : 06-11-2004 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 06-11-2004, 01:19 PM   #18
Lad.
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I almost agree with Shane. It does make sense. I have noticed that doing single strokes on a pillow only makes it harder to keep steady strokes on a real drum. It's like the bounce is so much more, so my chops are over done.

I'm not saying that all the rest of you are wrong, but he does have a point.
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Old 06-11-2004, 01:42 PM   #19
peter
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Lol!

Oh, you guys!

Listen, let's remember what he said. He wanted
to build up his speed, not play the drums.

There's a difference.

If you're offended by the reference to the bed
or the pillow, then do it on a snare drum, aim-
ing for the center of the head.

We don't have to be so literal as to shut our
minds to other points of view.

You may not agree with these drummers. That's
OK. They can't know everything. Lol!
__________________
To Virgil,
A Drummer Who is Changing the World

Last edited by peter : 06-12-2004 at 08:50 AM.
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Old 06-11-2004, 04:22 PM   #20
jsuplicki
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I can definatly agree with Shane G on many of the views with this topic. Racecar drivers don't practice racing with tractor trailers, they practice using a race car or something very close to it. I always believed to practice getting better at the drums, play drums or something close to them...practice pads.

Like anything, practicing anything correctly, and most importantly, with control, at a slow tempo to then faster will give you the results you want...all within time. Many excercises are more difficult at slower tempo's rather than fast...due to the need for control. CONTROL IS KEY!

To many people want the quick fix on getting speed and there isn't one, sorry.

I've been playing for over 20 years now and what I still do today is on a dry erase board next to my kit/practice pads I put down what I'm practicing on at the time and the tempo/bpm. Even a notebook will help for this example. If your using a book enter this with pencil. Every other day or so just raise the tempo 1-2 bpm and as the days go by, you will see progress. Believe me some weeks are better than others but you can always see where you were when you thought "I'm never going to get to 200bpm", and you started at 80bpm and with just over a month you've gained 10bpm to reach your goal. Only raise the bar if you have control of the excercise and are comfortable with it, don't lie to yourself either. Record youself practicing and listen back to it, believe me you'll know if your ready to raise the bpm or not! It all takes time!!! I can't stress this enough. Believe me you will get frustrated and say "Am I really going to use this technique?" and want to move on to something else, I think we all have one time or another, I have. When I was starting out waaaay back in the day I said that about rudiments...boy did I hate them! But, if you stick with it, you will get want you want. Knowing your using this messageboard as a catalyst for your drumming, I know you wont quit!

The more you practice the better you become, that is the proven fact...ask anyone playing any instrument. If you want it bad, you have to work at it, if you want it really bad, you really have to work at it and even make sacrifices in your schedule to find that extra time.

Virgil was not made in a day...
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Old 06-11-2004, 05:10 PM   #21
Lad.
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Much like, "The ark was not built in a day". Good words.

and I like your avatar. It's funny, because I remember when that picture was taken. I was like, right there in front of the guy with the camera, haha. That was the North Canton clinic.
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Old 06-11-2004, 05:41 PM   #22
jsuplicki
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Lad...I believe you might have been sitting right next to me at the clinic on my left, your right...in the front row just to the left of Virg. I was with my wife taking all the pics which are on the site. That clinic was amazing.
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Old 06-11-2004, 05:48 PM   #23
Lad.
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Nah, that wasn't me.
I was standing in the very back. I came in somewhere around half an hour after the show started, so I walked in during his solo.
I had a green masterworks shirt and a leather jacket.
You wouldn't remember that though.
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Old 06-12-2004, 08:11 AM   #24
GustavoFerreira
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The secret is to always use your fingers, and almost none of your hand!
Try practicing on high speeds using only you baby finger to make the stick movement, then go to the ring, etc.
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Old 06-12-2004, 10:24 AM   #25
jagdkommando
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In my opinion you have to practice on pillows etc. AND drums. I practiced a lot on
pillows etc. but then had the problem that I was very fast on pillows but couldn't
play very fast on drums. Especially one snare an 10" tom I had big problems playing
fast.

What I like very much is the excercise virg explained for singles and doubles (see premium member section).
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Old 06-12-2004, 02:12 PM   #26
Kinetic drummer
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Talking

well... thank for all your answers.
the reason of my question was because..i have speed. but with doubles and singles.
but what i noticed is that Thomas lang is right, sometimes we give a lot of accent to the first note in double rolls. then he explained his way. and its great.. so.. im practicing now.
i play with my fingers. and since i heard about mangini´s record im trying to practice with wrists too. and accents with the forearms, which is pretty hard on the left side. it resembles like moeller "look" just look , cuz i have no idea about the moeller stroke.
im having a hard time with paradiddles.
then... my hand starts to ache. the bones of my hands.. at high speeds get hard. and that hurts. but.. im still have control, cuz my fingers are loose and they give the movement to the stick.
anyway... i practice every day now.. i wanna have results in 6months.
thank for all of you.
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Old 06-24-2005, 01:57 PM   #27
groovemachine
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Exclamation wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude
umm 32nd notes at 140bpm is the same as 16th notes at 280bpm, and that is FLYING

Is that possible dude
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Old 06-24-2005, 02:36 PM   #28
groovemachine
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Red face How to improve your drum swing???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane G
With all due respect, peter, all this is gonna do is make you better at playing on quarters with phone books under your arms. And who plays on quarters at their gig? Not me.

Look...why is it that drummers have this "idea" that practicing on everything OTHER than drums (pillows, quarters, your knee, etc etc) will make you a better drummer?

Practice on drums...or at least a practice pad. WITH a metronome. Jeez, fellas...phone books? Cmon, man.


Hey Shane G I'm inclining to agree. Why is it that there's all this theories going round. Smacks of golf. Just play da drums da drums you play everyday and use da damn metro- make sure that ya keep the tension away whatever it takes to do dat. Ive been doing it to work my left hand and have increased my sixteenth notes by 15 bpm in two weeks doing it everyday for 1 hour. I can now play them at 165 bpm with ease. Use it dont use it

Leave all these theories for the golf wannabees
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Old 06-24-2005, 04:36 PM   #29
IronCobraMan
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drum daily to Hate Eternal's , king of all kings album ,all of it.... if ur speed and endurance dont go up by then , u got problems ... its the best all around drum work out u can get , for hands , feet and moving around ur kit .... long live DM drumming
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Old 06-26-2005, 12:36 PM   #30
Markdude465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane G

All practicing on a pillow is gonna do is make you better at playing on a pillow. In addition, since you dont get any sort of rebound from a pillow (or Moogel, phone book etc) your doing TWO motions for one stroke. When you play a drum, the stick has rebound. It has to...thats physics. When you play on a snare drum, you should only be doing one motion...down. the stick will come back on its own. Drummers call this "rebound." So if you dont use that to your advantage, you doing twice as much work for the same result.


I'll agree that rebound control is key, but the simple fact is that different drums produce different levels of rebound. You're going to be doing at least a little work to pull the drumstick back to you on lower tuned components. If you play on a surface that has virtually no rebound, you are strengthening the muscles that bring the drumstick back to you much more than you would be practicing on a drum. This means that the little bit of effort that you have to put into bringing the drumstick back when playing on a surface with more rebound seems even less.

It makes sense, doesn't it, that if bench pressing 400 pounds makes it easier to bench 50 quicker and for longer peroids of time, the same would go for increasing the effort one must put into drumming?

I'll agree that practicing on a pillow too much can reduce one's familiarity with the mechanics of rebound. I believe that it's about balance (just as everything in life is... very paridoxical).

And here's an excercise that really, really, really, really helped my singles, especially "weak-hand" lead:

R R R R LRLRLRLRL L L L RLRLRLRL (repeat many, many times, at various tempos)

And of course, play around with the number of strokes. Progressively add more and more:

R LRL RLR LRL RL...
R R LRLRL L RLRLR R LRLRL L RLRL...
R R R LRLRLRL L L RLRLRLR R R LRLRLRL L L RLRLRL...
R R R R LRLRLRLRL L L L RLRLRLRLR R R R R LRLRLRLR....

etc, etc, etc.

Good luck, and stick with it.

Last edited by Markdude465 : 06-26-2005 at 12:45 PM.
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