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Old 05-17-2003, 06:14 AM   #1
DoubleBass_Rob
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Anyone else own Virgil's MD '96 vid?

I got my hands on this video last week, and wow. Was there a point where Virgil WASN'T this friggin good? But it's hard watching those times he drops the stick.....but otherwise he blows everyone out of the water! You can see how much he's changed in terms of his playing. You can see on TUDW how his solos are much more based on musicality, with his independence.
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Old 05-18-2003, 03:45 AM   #2
jimi
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My copy should arrive any day now. The way everyone talks about this vid it sounds like it should have been the first vid i got! have you seen 'Obsessive Rhythms' at all?
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Old 05-18-2003, 03:48 PM   #3
DeepThought
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i have it as well, and I think the stick drops only show how full out he plays, hes not holding anything back at all! I did notice his playing during the solo i saw at my PX show was much better. Plus, he has to reeeeally try to do Dog Boots speed doubles on the video... now look at him!

The video kicks my tail every time I watch it.

You're gonna love it Jimi!
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Old 05-18-2003, 10:11 PM   #4
kirk
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If you compare MD to say TUDW or his soloing on the last couple tours, you will see that on MD he is playing alot of fast singles and alot of CRAZY crossovers, some cool incorporation of flams and doubles and alot of showy stuff. It is an awesome display of speed, precision, dexterity, power, but he does not dive into the REAL complex interdependence grooves that even back then he was into. Of course the stuff he pulls off is still ridiculous in fact. You can go back to Stretch(95) and hear that he was doing some real outrageous stuff based on ostinatos and the literal four way interdependence grooves and on both concepts soloing over them. Heck back on the Power Drumming video he is playing doubles at 180 and soloing over that with the hands in a way that I doubt any of us can pull off with just our hands alone.
Virgil has always stated that most of what he does is off the cuff, of course based on what he has been working on and can pull off, but it is spontaneous when he hits the stage so you never know what you might get. At PASIC 98 I saw him play some outrageously complex groove patterns between just the bass drum, hat, snare and left floor tom that was absurd but have yet to really see him do much of the same thing again and I guess that is great, the man has a tremendous well of creativity and chops.

Regards Kirk
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Old 05-29-2003, 11:46 AM   #5
jimi
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Virgil's Soloing

The name Virgil Donati means something a lot different to me than it probably did to people in '97. Got the vid today and found it difficult to adjust back to Virg 6 years of practice from today. (does that make sense?) It's his drumming alright but without the absolute mastermind behind it that is today.
Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed it very much and found it informing, it's just obviously a big step back from TUDW, CAB and PX.
What do you think?

Last edited by jimi : 05-29-2003 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 05-29-2003, 02:25 PM   #6
DeepThought
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I agree, jimi... most obvious is the way he can just barely do doubles at 200bpm (Dog Boots speed). And now he did it at many many live shows for the 4 min of Dog Boots!
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Old 05-29-2003, 03:02 PM   #7
jimi
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@deepthought: I wonder what his limit is now!

On the tape it showed that Horatio Hernandez guy, i've heard he's got good independence, does anyone have that vid?
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Old 05-29-2003, 03:15 PM   #8
kirk
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I have to say that even to this day, it is not Virgil's feet that blow my mind. YES he has the best feet(all around) in the business and they are truly amazing. But looking even back at 97 and even beyond," I started listening to him in 95" it was the whole package so to speak that GOT me. Amazing musical imagination with taste, blinding speed and precision(beyond single strokes on the toms)utilizing the whole kit, tremendous power and energy(passion), excellent sense of time, amazing polyrhythmic concepts and his dexterity is outrageous.

I think his dexterity on the MD 97 tape is what really got me. His hands and arms are as developed as his feet. He can cover ground around the kit and pull off amazing licks with one hand where as it would take 2 or 3 hands(hah hah) for us to do the same thing. You watch some of the fills in slow motion and you will see him utilize 3 or 4 toms and 2 to 3 cymbals( within his phrasing pattern) in one motion with one hand. One guy said it best a few years back to me at a show. He said Virgil's control over the beast(the kit) is outrageous, he does pretty much anything his twisted mind wants to. I will say it again his phrasing is from another planet, it takes amazing dexterity, precision and a wonderful imagination to pull it off.

Again I think the 97 tape does not show "enough" of the amazing four way interdependence that he has had for A LONG time, but it is still a brilliant performance. And you can go back to the Power Drumming video and it is shocking how good he was back then even, VERY few were as good even then.

Regards Kirk
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Old 05-30-2003, 05:47 AM   #9
DoubleBass_Rob
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimi

On the tape it showed that Horatio Hernandez guy, i've heard he's got good independence, does anyone have that vid?


He's freakish, he'll have cool latin ostenato on one foot, on the foot operated cowbell, and does an insane solo over the top, it's mind blowing.
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Old 05-31-2003, 02:23 AM   #10
jimi
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Interesting, i think we should make a top 10 of drum videos every drummer NEEDS to have/see! Any bids?
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Old 05-31-2003, 04:59 AM   #11
kyrah
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yes - that's a very good idea! Finding a useful present for the drummer would become a lot easier that way. Last year, I made a calendar with pics of her favourite drummers in it - of course, with a nice foto of Virgil Donati for december... saving the best for last - but with a top 10 of drum videos, I would have presents to choose from for years to come
sure hope all you drummers here will join in...

Last edited by kyrah : 05-31-2003 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 05-31-2003, 12:50 PM   #12
kirk
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In actual "nuts and bolts" terms what you hear are just(or can be) hi-hat patterns interpreted through the wood block with the left foot, things you can play with the basic hi-hat but using the wood block or bell to get a different sound, as far as complexity no more difficult than what you would play normally. I have never been too impressed with it overall. The level of interdependence it takes is not that advanced. It is far more difficult to set up patterns with 2 feet and solo over it or even more advanced setting up 2 individual patterns, one to each foot as you see Virgil doing on TUDW. You also see Virgil setting up some challenging patterns with his left hi-hat and soloing over, which actually I like the sound as much if not more than the wood block.

I saw Horacio and Robby Ameen at PASIC and they were wonderful trading with eachother it was really burning, good stuff.
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Old 06-01-2003, 03:23 AM   #13
jimi
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@kyrah: were you in the January pic?? :-)

This top 10 is gona start debates i'd say because it based on interest, i read a thread that kirk and other 'House of drumming' members started and people were accusing Virg of having a lack in musicality. Of just artificially inserting his latest drum exercise into a song and various other stupid comments. kirk should have said if a guitarist comes up with a lick or riff and makes a song with it, whats wrong with that?? there are such things as drum licks/grooves.
Anyways, was way off the point there but just had to mention it.
Ok, virg, colaiuta, weckl, portnoy, gadd, lang, minnemann, chambers, mangini. some drummers i like the sound of.
Where shall we go?
1. basic technique: portnoy, virg and weckl have a few.
power drumming
the next step, obsessive rhythms (haven't seen those two)
back to basics
progressive drum concepts

please add more!

2. intermediate and advanced - you guys make a list!
maybe 'the next step' -weckl should have been here
virg's TUDW workshop
Liquid drum theater

what about lang's vids etc.?

3.this section will be just plain unadulterated drumming fun!!

from Hardcore mindbending virg TUDW soloing to plain weckl/colaiuta/gadd buddy rich memorial drum fun.

Now everyone, please make a contribution! :-)
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Old 06-01-2003, 09:38 AM   #14
kirk
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Jimi that is funny that you read that post. Of course it was being perpetuated by guys who have a problem overall with really
"EXTREME" drummers basically if music or a song is REALLY complex and challenging, then there is NO WAY it can be done tastefully which is a key to musicality along with creativity and time,etc. Some guys HATE technique and a display of it alot of times, I honestly believe many times it just ticks them off that someone is that GOOD! Virgil dispalys great taste and wonderful dynamics in his playing especially Moonbabies and with CAB for an example.

And the whole idea that you cannot base a song around a new,fresh, amazingly innovative rhythm is CRAP! Simple or complex has nothing to do with it. It again comes down to inflection of taste, time, dynamics, feel, creativity being keys not whether something is complex or simple, there is alot of "SIMPLE" drumming that STINKS, point made. Oh well guess I should stop.

There are some great video's, dvd's to watch. I do not know about top ten. Of course Virgil's , Steve smith's are good, Dave Weckl's, Langs will be good, got to go will be back.

Regards Kirk
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Old 06-01-2003, 11:46 AM   #15
Steve Holmes
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There is a lesser known video that's hard to get. It's "The return of the Brecker Brothers, Live in Barcelona". It has Dennis and the productio is top notch. I don't think it's on DVD (none of the older GRP stuff is). If you see this online or used pick it up.
Michael Brecker alone makes it worth it.
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