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Old 03-13-2004, 12:42 PM   #1
C.J.
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Power with traditional grip

Bonjour a tous !

I don't know if this issue has been brought up before on the Msgbord, so please excuse me if it's the case...

I've changed a few months ago to traditionnal grip because I find it very interresting to work with, I only used to use it when playing Jazz or when low volume is needed. I Now wish to use the trad grip all the time.
I joined recently a rock group, and therefore need power to play in this situation, could anybody give advice on how to devellop power with the trad grip?

While I'm here I would also like to ask if anybody could give some details on Virg's trad grip techinique. I do know he tends to use more of the wrist motion than his fingers...


Catch you later, Merci beacoup !
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Old 03-13-2004, 05:21 PM   #2
Lucius
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Well, hopefully I can be of some help hehe, to get power out of your left hand grip, they key is consistancy, practice a lot with it, play a lot with it, playing along to Power Drumming always helps. Details on Virg's technique, well I havnt really asked him in person, but I have analysed it a heck of a lot, unlike other players he seem's to use his wrist/arm a lot, only recently have I seen him open his hand for a backbeat to let his thumb do the work, but he has always had a very closed grip. I noticed on TUDW 2002 DVD on his masterclass, that when he is doing the backbeat (man this is gonna be hard to explain) instead of using his thumb and index finger and wrist for power, he uses all of his fingers, to make it a bit easier to understand, put your stick in your hand and do mini-pushups as I like to call it, with you fingers, making them go up and down, at first the stick will go outward, but after a while it will go up and down, thats a really good exercise for the fingers, and thats how Virg does his back beat in that DVD, well thats what it looks like, of course his arm does help with the motion... http://www.hudsonmusic.com/Photo_Ga...es/Img_0009.jpg theres a pic of Lang demonstrating a bit what I mean, the way his hand is griping it, almost like a claw.

http://www.drummerworld.com/drum7/virgildonati.jpg If you check that out, you see in his thumb on his left hand the bone shows a bit, I found to get that effect, I had to grip the stick really tight, and play that way for like a week or 2, after all the pain (well not really that much, just a bit awkward) my hand just sits that way now, even while relaxed in my left hand, I have a really powerful grip, you dont really need to do that to get good at this grip, cause there other other monster players who dont do it, like Vinnie, and Lang, but these are just little things I have noticed about his grip, and applied them to mine, I could be completley wrong! BUT still, im happy with my grip after doing those little changes! Hope that helps...

Last edited by Lucius : 03-13-2004 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:00 AM   #3
Juoni
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I haven't really got the point about playing with traditional grip, so could someone explain me? Is it really somehow better than matched? I've also tried to play traditional but I have only found it more difficult to master, besides I also tend to play open-handed, so I think matched is better for me.
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:03 AM   #4
Guren
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Thank you,Lucius! I understanded a little,left hang grip
对我来说帮助很大! make a friends !ok?
e -mail:zhangjianxun@fescomail.net
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Old 03-14-2004, 03:38 AM   #5
C.J.
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Salut !

Thanx a lot Lucius ! I think I understand, I'll try all that out for a bit and see where it goes...

There's this detail I'd like to question you about : when I play (trad of course) my little finger tends to "get loose", like...euh... sort of dance about as if I couldn't hold it in place (sorry man I hope you understand) which is kind of annoying (yeah I'm a detail maniac!). I try to get it to stay put, but when I play fast, Mr. pinky finger just bails out. Do think I should try to fix this or is it "normal" that the little finger doesn't stay "glued" to my ringfinger ?

Cheers.
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Old 03-14-2004, 07:00 AM   #6
Matias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.
Salut !
There's this detail I'd like to question you about : when I play (trad of course) my little finger tends to "get loose", like...euh... sort of dance about as if I couldn't hold it in place (sorry man I hope you understand) which is kind of annoying (yeah I'm a detail maniac!). I try to get it to stay put, but when I play fast, Mr. pinky finger just bails out. Do think I should try to fix this or is it "normal" that the little finger doesn't stay "glued" to my ringfinger ?

Cheers.


I had had the same problem that you with my little finger, so i cut it, the only problem is that i cant reach confortable enough my left ear with my right little finger but then you get used to it.


Lucius, that was very helpfull, mil gracias.!
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:36 PM   #7
Lucius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.
There's this detail I'd like to question you about : when I play (trad of course) my little finger tends to "get loose", like...euh... sort of dance about as if I couldn't hold it in place (sorry man I hope you understand) which is kind of annoying (yeah I'm a detail maniac!). I try to get it to stay put, but when I play fast, Mr. pinky finger just bails out. Do think I should try to fix this or is it "normal" that the little finger doesn't stay "glued" to my ringfinger ?


Man, I've never heard of that before, I always used to wonder if my pinky was wierd because it would only stay stuck to my ring finger, but after a while I realised it was normal. Just try sticking your pinky under your ring finger, and everytime it goes wild just stick it back there in place, after a while it should stay where it should, I think that should work for you, just like me adjusting my grip with my thumb, it took a while for it to get used to, so just try putting it into place for a week or two, or even a month, see how it goes, if it still does it, then im stumped!
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Old 03-14-2004, 12:41 PM   #8
Lucius
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Oh yeh, something I forgot to add about Virg's grip is that when you watch it, he holds his stick just before the middle of the stick, I dont know why he holds it so far up, but he seems to get good results out of it, others tend to hold it more at the back for power, but Virg does the complete opposite!
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Old 03-14-2004, 04:13 PM   #9
Xen-
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I get more rebound by holding the stick almost in the middle using trad. grip. The sound is also different whether you're playing trad. or matched. Trad. gives a more open, resonating sound while matched is the opposite. Having two different hands is like having three sets of limbs instead of two. Hey, but that's me.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:38 AM   #10
Syncopationist
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This thread is pretty interesting for me as I'm just starting to get interested in traditional grip merely as an amusing alternative to matched, but my main problem is rim shotting with the trad grip. Anyone trad grip vets got any tips on this?
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Old 03-15-2004, 09:21 AM   #11
Xen-
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I get good rimshots without having to tilt the snare like some do.
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Old 03-15-2004, 03:13 PM   #12
peter
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First, if you're convinced that playing only the trad-grip is best for you, I'd suggest making sure that snare drum is 'wide-open', with no muffling and with heads that lend themselves to this sound. You need as much sound from that drum as possible.

Second, I would look at the sticks I am using. Virgil likes them on the heavier side and the music he plays does better with that, as a result.

Third, experiment with the hand at the back-end and the middle and see what you think. A lot of trad players now play at the back-end for a more powerful stroke. See if one or the other works better for you. Let us know.

Fourth, do not be afraid of lifting that arm for the backbeat. When you practice, isolate the wrist but also give time to your arm too.

I played trad for many years and then switched. I also am open, now. I don't understand why you want to play trad but that's fine.
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Old 03-17-2004, 01:11 AM   #13
C.J.
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Thanx for you precious advice Peter !

In my case, I have changed to trad grip because, like I said before, I love the feel when using this technique, and also because I find It not only artistic, but technicnically challenging...
Even if, some drummer dosn't use the trad grip, I believe it is something that must be experimented because it is a heritage from the past, personnally it is a heritage that I would like to carry on... But that only my point of view...

See you around,
respectueusement votre !
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Old 03-17-2004, 06:08 AM   #14
Juoni
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I think Virgil has said that only difference between matched and traditional is that traditional is MUCH more difficult to master. "...So keep your hands matched".
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Old 03-17-2004, 11:48 AM   #15
peter
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That's cool, CJ. I still can use it and fool
with it. I can see that it can be useful. I
also see that the development of my wrist
(first) interfered with my matched single-
stroke, just for your information. I started
playing traditional and then, after many
years, moved over to matched.

My matched playing has become very
finger-driven, much like Billy Cobham, who
is the master of the French technique.

I want what's best for you. One of the
great trad players and a great influence
on Virgil is Carl Palmer. Look at video of
the great trad players, like Buddy and
see how you might incorporate their
ideas into your approach.

Play on, my friend!
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