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-   -   Traditional Grip (http://www.virgildonati.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=45)

Jonny 06-15-2003 09:30 AM

Traditional Grip
 
Why Virgil's uses Traditional Grip if he think that's dificult to do somethings?
And what we can do better using the T. Grip?
Thanks

jimi 06-15-2003 10:02 AM

Virg just spent most of his life playing that way and doesn't think he should change. That's the way he plays.

People say there is a better feel on the snare with the T.grip but as usual, any person is going to do something better the way they learnt it first, because it's so difficult to unlearn habits.

This trad vs. matched grip debate is the same as the heels up vs. heels down debate ... solely preference.

kirk 06-15-2003 11:50 AM

After reading guys comments on matched vs. traditional for the last 20 years I find a few consistent comments. With traditional there are certain techniques employed where traditional allows for better touch and as was said before there tends to be better touch exhibited when speaking of snare technique. After reading comments from Virg and Tony Williams and Weckl and others they find the traditional grip allows for better feel much of the time, but with matched you can build up speed and power quicker and retain it easier. So it seems to be a give and take, but no doubt that what you become proficient with first you will stick to that. Virgil plays with such power and speed, precision and endurance with traditional that it is really AMAZING. I myself play with matched and when trying to do certain things with traditional it is very difficult to pull things off with speed and power and precision.
No doubt that Virg had to work his ASS off to build up the kind of proficiency he has with traditional.


Regards Kirk

alencore 07-10-2003 12:05 PM

yeah i agree.
Gregg Bissonette mentioned that he uses t-grip when playing swings or some soft strokes on the snares. I saw once Buddy Rich use match grip just to whack the drums really hard. Technical stuff like bouncing or buzzing stuff works fine for me in t-grip while m-grip for finger controls and drum whaling ala D. Grohl, LOL!

Steve Holmes 07-13-2003 12:02 AM

Theres cetain muscles used in trad grip that dont get used in matched.
ANother key difference is when just holding the stick with trad grip, the stick literally sits in your hand. Your dont have to hold it nessasarily. Plus the trad grip is very close (or should be) to what the hands natural relaxed postion is.
In matched grip you're holding the stick. Literally. As opposed to the stick sitting in your hand.
I've never seen match grip guys play the stuff the trad guys do (Colaiuta, Weckl, Donati).
The clear advantage to matched is power but with mics thats not all that needed really. I say play how you want, let the mics do the work for you. This of course assumes the sound guy knows a good drum sound (which is rare. Nice drum mix on the PX MI dvd BTW. Hi. I'de like to hear the TOMS AND CYMBALS PLEASE. HI.)

kirk 07-13-2003 08:55 AM

Have to agree when it comes to the point that you do not see matched grip guys playing the same kind of accents that you see Virgil, Vinnie,Weckl and other great traditional grip pulling off. It seems they are able to come up with some really creative and complex combos(fill-ins) and accents incorporating the snare and Hi-Hat that you would not really hear or see with matched grip players.

Regards Kirk

jimi 07-20-2003 04:45 PM

Actually this bobby jarzombek (.com) guy plays open handed and some of the hi-hat work is, well, different. i can't really explain it. but other than that there's no intricate ghost note patterns or anything like virg, vinnie etc. it is interesting to listen to his approach though all the same.

Tom24 07-21-2003 05:01 AM

Hi guys

it was a nice thing reading this thread because some of u guys, articulated some of the things, i just felt, and didn't know to say, because i changed some time ago to traditional grip, and it just feels more like home ;) and more close to the drums

though i ran into a lot of Problems, and still have some, it feels great, overall it sounds stupid, but since i've changed, it's more fun overall :D

hehe sounds like a commercial

rythmtroll 07-22-2003 08:59 AM

I LIKE PLAYING WITH THE DRUM STICKS ATTACHED TO A STICK HOLDER WHICH THEN ARE CONNECTED TO EACH ONE OF MY NUTS. I GET, .........MORE FEEL THIS WAY. MATCH GRIP ALL THE WAY SUKAS!!!

v1rotate 07-22-2003 09:05 AM

I mentioned it on one of the other threads but I found that you tend to drop the left shoulder when playing Traditional Grip, look at Virgil, both shoulders are the same height which is where they should be. Compare him to some of the the other Traditional Grip holders and you know what I mean. It's a conscious effort keep the shoulder up but better for your back and posture.

jimi 07-22-2003 02:10 PM

Hey Tom24, Welcome and i hope you enjoy this board!!

@v1rotate: while we are comparing the grips, i was jamming last month with hotrods and i got a bad blister on my fourth finger because it was resting on the edge of the handle bit and the rods. anyboby get that? i'll try putting some tape on the stick next time, maybe that'll work?

v1rotate 07-22-2003 11:46 PM

jimi,

It used to happen to me alot until found out that I was using the wrong technique/hold. Difficult to describe without pictures but when the stick makes contact with the snare, the forth finger comes away from the stick with the fingers in a parallel position to the ground and the knuckles on the thumb facing up. The wrong technique is when you hit the snare and your palm is facing the roof/sky/heavens etc.

I changed grip from Match to Traditional and had this problem initially because I was never taught Traditional Grip but after seeing lots of Traditional Grip players, I finally got the picture.

If you are still confused as to the correct position, I can take a photo and post on my website or where ever.

jimi 07-23-2003 02:10 AM

I get you v1rotate, i guess i hadn't noticed this sooner because it's not my palm position that i had wrong, just the 4th finger placement. I don't feel uncomfortable with the normal sticks but maybe the technique fault was magnified when i used the hotrods? I had actually spent a bit of time practising keeping my fingers (4th&5th) under the stick as i thought this was the quickest way to gain control of the stick after the rebound.
another question: when just using the fingers when striking a drum (rather than the wrist) is it best to use your index, index&middle or just middle finger to move the stick? i'm sure i've seen virg use the middle mostly.

STAVROPOULOS 07-25-2003 04:19 AM

HELLO TO ALL THE GREAT GUYS HERE!
WELL,THE ONLY THING I HAVE TO SAY IS THAT BOTH GRIPS ARE GOOD EITHER.I THINK THAT MATCHED IS MORE COMFORTABLE TO PLAY WITH ON A BIG SET UP BECAUSE YOUR HANDS CAN GO QUICKLY AND EASY WHEREVER YOU WANT.IN ADDITION THE CROSS STICKINGS ARE QUITE EASIER!BESIDES,VIRGIL DOESN'T HAVE A BIG SET UP.BUT IN A KIT LIKE VIRGIL'S,I THINK THAT BOTH GRIPS ARE COOL!OH!DAVE WECKL ALSO WAS CHANGING THE GRIPS IN ATHENS,WHILST PLAYING!I STILL BELIEVE THAT BOTH WAYS ARE COOL AND I AGREE THAT IT IS A MATTER OF PREFERENCE TOO!
BYE FOKES!

Me.2 07-25-2003 07:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jimi
I had actually spent a bit of time practising keeping my fingers (4th&5th) under the stick

Jimi....i would like to know why you have 5 fingers? I only have 4 and a thumb,.....what are the advantages if any? ;)


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