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View Full Version : Double Paradiddle/ Paradiddle Layering


MaltBuddow3
04-12-2004, 02:32 PM
lars.ulrich/matt.damon

vdreignsuponus1
04-12-2004, 03:10 PM
ive been working on paradiddles lately (occassionally doubles) and coming along quite nicely.:)

ive also been working on trying to perfect flam-accents throughout the kit..and doing quite nicely.:)

haha, keep up the good work man..i know if u practice ull get it..gotta say the same for myself!:D

shaftninja
04-12-2004, 11:09 PM
That shit is rough, man. I can play it but not quite up to par with Virgil's presentation of it on his master class section of the TUDW 2002 DVD. It's getting there though. I've shedded many rudiments with a 'side' of my body against the other side. Try interweaving them as well so you can play the rudiment with ANY hand against ANY foot (not just left hand against left foot, and etc) and apply the other rudiment to the remaining two limbs. Currently, I'm working on the other interdependent exercises from those clinic sheets, but I've sort of expanded the original concept into something a bit more challenging (and a bit more 'me,' appropriately).

Lucius
04-13-2004, 02:03 AM
Ive come up with something to sort of help me get to that exercise Virg displays, and its starting with singles between my RH and RF whilst playing sticking patterns with the opposite limbs (LH & LF) I just do the first say the first 10 patterns of stick control with my own little variation on it but with inverted doubles so the whole sticking thing would go:

RLRLRLRL
RRLLRRLL
RLLRRLLR
LRLRLRLR
LLRRLLRR
LRRLLRRL
RLRRLRLL
RLLRLRRL
RRLRLLRL
RLRLLRLR

Atm Im just trying to get each pattern down, which means spending time on one until perfected (blah blah). Still not there yet, but I have come up with this whole system which allows me to do Virgils thing, but also a whole lot of different, but helpful stuff before hand.

Whoops, forgot 2 different things, one is, the stickings up there are obviously done with the opposite limbs and not right and left, AND how does this lead to Virgil's exercise you say? Well I can answer that, after you have done that, do the singles with you left limbs, and stickings with your right, THEN, once thats done, go to the next sticking in the ones above, and replace the singles with those, so in this case, its doubles, so then work on that, UNTIL you finally get to paradiddles. So by the time you get to doing the paradiddle, you shouldnt have much trouble putting the double paradiddle next to it...! Hope thats of some help! (mind you I cant do it all myself, I just came up with it, and my idea is much more than what Ive explained!) :)

Lad.
04-13-2004, 09:34 PM
Virgil's paradiddle layering excercise is hard.
Though, this is my first night trying.
I can't quite figure out just how to layer two paradiddles on each side of my body.

MaltBuddow3
04-14-2004, 12:30 PM
lars dot com

jsuplicki
04-25-2004, 03:28 PM
I also have been dabbleing with this excercise and to play just the right side and the left side by themselves I'm able to do, it's placing them together that is unbelieveably difficult. As mentioned above by MaltBuddow3, reading the notes for what they are may be a better approach. Once I get the hang of it and I can get it up to a decent tempo, the rudiments and feel will come to me to where a can then segment it, start/stop different limbs and be more experimentive with the excersize. With only time and practice will I find out.

unsonor
04-30-2004, 11:31 PM
paradiddle layering excercise ... hmm... HOW does this exercise look please ? Safe days . And I think i will take the IS IT HARD part when i will see the exercise :)

johnz
08-06-2005, 04:17 AM
Virgil's paradiddle layering excercise is hard.
Though, this is my first night trying.
I can't quite figure out just how to layer two paradiddles on each side of my body.

Turn on your metronome to 60 BPM. Have your hi hat follow the 1/4 note pulse.

The quarter note needs to land on every third beat of the single paradiddle to give you a triplet feel ( 1r l r 2r l r 3l l r 4l r r ). First play it on the snare only.

Once you can do that with your hands, just break it up between your right foot (rf) and left hand (lh) ( 1rf lh rf 2rf lh rf 3lh lh rf 4lh rf rf ).

Finally, just have your right hand follow the hi hat 1/4 note pulse on your ride cymbal or right side hi hat.

After a while, you will be able to not only play the basic triplet paradiddle version, but also the triplet single paradiddle inversions as well between your right foot and left hand ( 1r r l 2r l l 3r l r 4r l r ) or ( 1r l l 2r l r 3r l r 4l l r ) etc. (Sorry Virg if I stole your next lesson)

Just take it slow.

Praseodymium
11-30-2005, 04:59 AM
With regards to the layers, I would suggest rewriting the layer in a more comfortable notation. I couldn't practice the layer even at an extremely slow speed when trying to read virgil's handout from the clinic, so I made it a little different and I can play it at a reasonable tempo now. Maybe I should practice my reading, but right now, independence is more of a priority. However, now that I am comfortable with the accents and the general feel of the layer, I can pick up the tempo and strive to play as quickly as virgil and maybe switch sides without stopping :)

DrummerMom
02-23-2007, 07:07 AM
I would like to learn this double paradiddle/paradiddle layering. I can play the left side hi hat and snare and the right side bass and floor tom. Putting them together is a totally different animal!

Is it written in notation on this board? I would search, but not exactly sure what to search for. Thanks!

Jameson
02-23-2007, 01:37 PM
You can write out a reference sheet for yourself by boxing everything...it's aggravating, but it works. Stuff like that gets me through study hall :D

Mine turn out something like this...

RLRR|LRLL|RLRR|LRLL|RLRR|LRLL
RLRL|RRLR|LRLL|RLRL|RRLR|LRLL

Then just keep on going. It's a quick and easy way to see how each rudiment layers on top of each other. I group in fours for 16th notes (the only real experimenting I've done with the layering of rudiments has been in straight 4 with 16th note subdivisions), but you can do threes for triplets, etc.

DrummerMom
02-24-2007, 03:34 AM
You can write out a reference sheet for yourself by boxing everything...it's aggravating, but it works. Stuff like that gets me through study hall :D

Mine turn out something like this...

RLRR|LRLL|RLRR|LRLL|RLRR|LRLL
RLRL|RRLR|LRLL|RLRL|RRLR|LRLL

Then just keep on going. It's a quick and easy way to see how each rudiment layers on top of each other. I group in fours for 16th notes (the only real experimenting I've done with the layering of rudiments has been in straight 4 with 16th note subdivisions), but you can do threes for triplets, etc.

Thank you! I had to right this way to actually wrap my brain around it.

F=Floor Tom
B=Bass
H= Hi Hat w/ foot
S= Snare

FBFF |BFBB |FBFF|BFBB | FBFF|BFBB|
HSHS|HHSH|SHSS|HSHS|HHSH|SHSS|

cjcdrums
02-27-2007, 03:55 AM
I started working on this stuff some time ago and I soon realized that I was doing so only to to impress other drummers. Not only was (is) this stuff way more advanced than I am, it wouldnt benefit me proportionally to the effort it would take to learn it.

This indeed must have been a great exercise for Virgil, because he's already done all the thousands of preliminary exercises that naturally lead up to it. I have not.

What is more useful for me is applications of common grooves against common ostinatos, such as groupings of 3 16ths notes with my right hand against any groove I can think of, then displace the right hand pattern as I acheive fluency with the first. This is something I can apply musically all the time, and immediately.

Drumblast
02-27-2007, 05:45 AM
Better to get down musical styles than do stuff like this---very impractical. Write your own 'impossible' beat. At least it would be your own mess.

cjcdrums
02-27-2007, 08:38 AM
LOL agreed. Except let's forget technical "feats" entirely, and focus on things we can use. This isn't a circus.

stiflerstang
02-27-2007, 05:53 PM
I totally agree with cj...lately i've been analyzing my playing and seeing that a lot of the crazy technical stuff i practice, even crazy independence stuff i will probably never use. This stuff doesn't help me out on a gig that much. This is just my opinion, i feel i have to master the basics and be a player to the music rather than try to impress someone with something i can do that can never really be used.

Cryptopsy
02-28-2007, 09:26 AM
I totally agree with cj...lately i've been analyzing my playing and seeing that a lot of the crazy technical stuff i practice, even crazy independence stuff i will probably never use. This stuff doesn't help me out on a gig that much. This is just my opinion, i feel i have to master the basics and be a player to the music rather than try to impress someone with something i can do that can never really be used.

That's true, but perhaps you might use some of that independence stuff if you are trying to put a solo together. BTW, by doing those exercises you are conditioning your body to play anything you want. Maybe there will be a time when you will actually apply it even to a band situation.

STAVROPOULOS
05-05-2007, 08:53 AM
I agree with Cryptopsy!Besides,do u remember what Vinnie said in MD?About his past stuff he used to play,helping him now directly or indirectly?This is the case!

Practice Virgil's sickness and will get help for sure!

kirk
05-05-2007, 10:57 AM
When you hear the new Planet X (one could hear it in some of the older Planet X and OTV pieces) one will see that there is a HUGE application for the EXTREME interdependence/displacement/modulation ideas if one has the discipline and patience to aquire the technique and the imagination to use it in a musical manner. Virg is the pinnacle for what is possible technically and creatively, I have no doubt about that after hearing the new tunes.

vdreignsuponus1
05-06-2007, 09:03 AM
"Virg is the pinnacle for what is possible technicaly and creatively."

Wow kirk, I might just make that another one of my sig. quotes. I'll even put your name by it. :)

kirk
05-06-2007, 04:05 PM
It does sound quite good actually and I believe it is true to boot. :D Go for it!

Regards Kirk

Drumblast
05-06-2007, 05:20 PM
When you hear the new Planet X (one could hear it in some of the older Planet X and OTV pieces) one will see that there is a HUGE application for the EXTREME interdependence/displacement/modulation ideas if one has the discipline and patience to aquire the technique and the imagination to use it in a musical manner. Virg is the pinnacle for what is possible technically and creatively, I have no doubt about that after hearing the new tunes.True. He also writes his own songs which these patterns work.

Like I said, write your own crazy song, put your own beat to it.

kirk
05-06-2007, 07:12 PM
The new stuff Grooves like MAD! Guy's think Virg is about blowing chops. That is true in a solo setting but in the context of Planet X and OTV he is about creating extremely complex but yet grooving patterns that compliment the entire band. The crazy fills and licks are very secondary ( they are defintely there when need be) and I find that to be true the more Virg writes new stuff. He is very satisfied at laying down a NASTY rhythm and of course turning the thing inside and out back and forth but letting the rest of the band go nuts while he is playing or should I say toying with time like no one else can.

Matthias
05-07-2007, 01:53 AM
When you hear the new Planet X (one could hear it in some of the older Planet X and OTV pieces) one will see that there is a HUGE application for the EXTREME interdependence/displacement/modulation ideas if one has the discipline and patience to aquire the technique and the imagination to use it in a musical manner. Virg is the pinnacle for what is possible technically and creatively, I have no doubt about that after hearing the new tunes.
I'm with you kirk, although I must ask: How many bands like Planet X or OTV are out there, and in how many of them are you going to play?
I think both you and stiflerstang have a point. I believe as long as one doesn't neglect the basics or other things a drummer today HAS to master, one is free to practice all the sickest stuff in the world. But first the fundament, then the spice, or the dessert, or whatever:).

Virgil
05-07-2007, 09:26 AM
Hi guys - don't get to post on my own site too often, but I was sitting quietly in my hotel room in Albany N.Y. following my two clinics here yesterday, and found this link interesting. Firstly, thanks for coming here and making it such an interesting and interactive meeting place for drummers. I know that some of you have at times voiced frustration at the lack of my exchange on this message board, but the aim was to create a forum for drumming peers to create a healthy dialogue, and If this thread is any indication, then I think that has been acheived.
However I will contribute to this thread - it's interesting to read the various viewpoints. Let's not get carried away - it's just two very conventional but nevertheless important drum rudiments combined in a new and refreshing, and yes, more challenging way.... how does that relate to a "circus", or raise questions such as "how practical is it?". And if you're doing this for the purpose of impressing others, then yes, I would go back to basics. If I ever asked myself those questions as I was growing up, practicing drums, I would not be where I am today. If those kind of questions surface in your mind, just deny them, tell yourself there is a greater purpose. Drumming gave me purpose, it taught me everything I know about myself, it developed my inner metal.... all I ever wanted to do was get up every day, with an intent to have my rhythmic and overall musical questions answered. That became a lifelong quest. Yes - we all have choices to make, and feel free to take the path that gives you what you need, but don't try to quantify the validity of something which perhaps is making a contribution to where drumming may evolve in the future. And be assured - times change, ideas change, evolution takes place - my god Bach was a great Baroque innovator in the 18th century, and layed the groundwork for the future generations, and all the various periods. Look what came of that - Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Strauss, Stravinsky!!! Don't close your mind to big ideas. Sometimes we can confuse Pop Culture with true art.... don't feel guilty for wanting to forge ahead.... just be intelligent about it.... Cryptopsy makes a good point about conditioning - gaining flexibilty, developing the rhythmic mind.... Strav brings up Vinnie's point of how all this study will surface in some manner, directly of indirectly - I couldn't agree more. Kirk - he just simply get's it. He hear's what's going on. To all the other guys who are having a crack at it - well done, and keep up the hard work. All the various reference sheets are a good idea. Just remember to keep everything in balance - don't neglect the fundamentals in a rush to be independent, and fast! (BTW - I'm in the middle of a extremely straight ahead pop tour, and my layers have been layed to rest - for the time being...hehehehe)....(apart from this short clinic tour of course)
Thanks to you all for your interesting contributions, and for your continued residence on this board - keep making your presence felt.... and hope to meet you all in various corners of the world, sooner or later.

frank
05-07-2007, 10:02 AM
Cool! Good post Virgil and thanks for dropping by!

Good luck with the Polnareff tour and I'm looking forward to check you out with Tony and Billy later this year! :D

kirk
05-07-2007, 10:09 AM
Thanks for stopping by Virg, to your own site of course ;) Great to have your feedback and a BIG Thank You for making this place possible and of course to Christopher also. Thanks Christopher for getting the dvd to me so fast! It is absolutely Incredible! Just Seeing the full performance of Quantum Factor from the Sydney show is worth getting this dvd, well almost :D Virgil's phrasing in that song is just STUNNING!! What can Virg NOT do??

Regards Kirk

morgenthaler
05-07-2007, 10:30 AM
Regarding practicing....These days I am not practicing all that much. These days I am studying my *** off, learning about language science, media culture and litterature at University of Copenhagen, and it makes my head spin, and my heart buzz with excitement over how I am growing as an educated individual. I'm not afraid to say that I'm getting smarter by the day, and loving it. I should not be ashamed that i am growing as an intellectual being, as shouldn't those who choose to dedicate theirs lives to pushing musical boundaries. We should ALL welcome those few individiuals' hard work and effort.

Regarding composers....It's funny, ever since Virgil turned me on to Debussy, I can hear clear harmonic influences in some of Virgils compositions.

MY compositional heroes: Stravinsky, Debussy, Bruckner, Shostacovich, Donati and many others.

PS: Didn't ANYONE take pix from Virgils recent clinics?? :)
MAN I love this place.

Virgil
05-07-2007, 10:39 AM
thanks Frank/Kirk - in a way, this is more your site than mine!!
Kirk - the new Quantum Factor is vastly different... hope it will still strike a chord!

cjcdrums
05-07-2007, 11:03 AM
Let's not get carried away - it's just two very conventional but nevertheless important drum rudiments combined in a new and refreshing, and yes, more challenging way.... how does that relate to a "circus", or raise questions such as "how practical is it?". And if you're doing this for the purpose of impressing others, then yes, I would go back to basics. If I ever asked myself those questions as I was growing up, practicing drums, I would not be where I am today. If those kind of questions surface in your mind, just deny them, tell yourself there is a greater purpose. Drumming gave me purpose, it taught me everything I know about myself, it developed my inner metal.... all I ever wanted to do was get up every day, with an intent to have my rhythmic and overall musical questions answered. That became a lifelong quest. Yes - we all have choices to make, and feel free to take the path that gives you what you need, but don't try to quantify the validity of something which perhaps is making a contribution to where drumming may evolve in the future. And be assured - times change, ideas change, evolution takes place - my god Bach was a great Baroque innovator in the 18th century, and layed the groundwork for the future generations, and all the various periods. Look what came of that - Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Strauss, Stravinsky!!! Don't close your mind to big ideas. Sometimes we can confuse Pop Culture with true art.... don't feel guilty for wanting to forge ahead.... just be intelligent about it....

The thing is, you've practiced enough so that the layering exercise is just another combination. For myself at least, I haven't worked enough on general independance or sight reading not to mention jazz, latin, or really any style that's not rock. I can't justify doing this sort of exercise when I aspire to play professionally and I can't even sight read or play brushes.

I sincerely hope to one day be in a position where I can gain control from superdifficult exercises like this as routinely as I do from the basic jazz and latin patterns I'm currently tackling. As far as pushing boundaries goes, if I can manage to make a living from playing drums and still have time for practice, then I'll be more than happy to pursue the ideas I have about where the future of drumming is concerned.

Thanks for stopping by Virgil.

kirk
05-07-2007, 11:15 AM
Yes I love the NEW! version Virg. The WHOLE band takes center stage in the new version. Just powerful and the song is constanly taking on a new face throughout the 7 1/2 minutes. IMO Derek sounds better then ever. His playing has become more diverse and musical. I love Allan's solo section on Desert Girl. You and Allan going for it together just fantastic. And Brett is just simply one of the Best and most underappreciated players today. His feel is HUGE! Is there a wasted note with the guy? Probably not. And Rufus is a terrific player as well, fantastic chops. Regarding the dvd the Stockholm performance was Fantastic it was wonderful to see as much as what was really going on from the different angles but I have to say Sydney was just as satisfying for me in it's own way. 2 of the VERY best solo performances I have seen you do.

Regards Kirk

Drumblast
05-07-2007, 12:09 PM
Hi guys - don't get to post on my own site too often, but I was sitting quietly in my hotel room in Albany N.Y. following my two clinics here yesterday, and found this link interesting. Firstly, thanks for coming here and making it such an interesting and interactive meeting place for drummers. I know that some of you have at times voiced frustration at the lack of my exchange on this message board, but the aim was to create a forum for drumming peers to create a healthy dialogue, and If this thread is any indication, then I think that has been acheived.
However I will contribute to this thread - it's interesting to read the various viewpoints. Let's not get carried away - it's just two very conventional but nevertheless important drum rudiments combined in a new and refreshing, and yes, more challenging way.... how does that relate to a "circus", or raise questions such as "how practical is it?". And if you're doing this for the purpose of impressing others, then yes, I would go back to basics. If I ever asked myself those questions as I was growing up, practicing drums, I would not be where I am today. If those kind of questions surface in your mind, just deny them, tell yourself there is a greater purpose. Drumming gave me purpose, it taught me everything I know about myself, it developed my inner metal.... all I ever wanted to do was get up every day, with an intent to have my rhythmic and overall musical questions answered. That became a lifelong quest. Yes - we all have choices to make, and feel free to take the path that gives you what you need, but don't try to quantify the validity of something which perhaps is making a contribution to where drumming may evolve in the future. And be assured - times change, ideas change, evolution takes place - my god Bach was a great Baroque innovator in the 18th century, and layed the groundwork for the future generations, and all the various periods. Look what came of that - Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Strauss, Stravinsky!!! Don't close your mind to big ideas. Sometimes we can confuse Pop Culture with true art.... don't feel guilty for wanting to forge ahead.... just be intelligent about it.... Cryptopsy makes a good point about conditioning - gaining flexibilty, developing the rhythmic mind.... Strav brings up Vinnie's point of how all this study will surface in some manner, directly of indirectly - I couldn't agree more. Kirk - he just simply get's it. He hear's what's going on. To all the other guys who are having a crack at it - well done, and keep up the hard work. All the various reference sheets are a good idea. Just remember to keep everything in balance - don't neglect the fundamentals in a rush to be independent, and fast! (BTW - I'm in the middle of a extremely straight ahead pop tour, and my layers have been layed to rest - for the time being...hehehehe)....(apart from this short clinic tour of course)
Thanks to you all for your interesting contributions, and for your continued residence on this board - keep making your presence felt.... and hope to meet you all in various corners of the world, sooner or later.Thanks for chiming in. You an inspiration to us all. That is why we are here. :D

Matthias
05-07-2007, 01:22 PM
Thank you Virgil for sharing your thoughts!!
I for myself have a long way to go before I reach the boundaries - technically at least. Musically I don't know what the boundaries are, and if there are some.
But of course there are boundaries for myself, every technical and musical progress and growing is pushing my personal boundaries, so I can be happy too;).

MY compositional heroes: Stravinsky, Debussy, Bruckner, Shostacovich, Donati and many others.

I like symphonic movie soundtracks. Just saw the Lord of the Rings Symphony Orchestra, and I absolutely loved it. Howard Shore's music is the work of a genius!

Virgil
05-07-2007, 08:31 PM
cjc - your latest comments are exemplary - here you have made some very strong arguments, and I'm with you 100%. It's important to be realistic about your abilities, and to prioritize your practice time accordingly. Likewise Mattias - we are all traveling the same road!

cjcdrums
05-07-2007, 08:53 PM
Well comments are one thing, but it can be easy to make comments and difficult to trudge through things you don't want to work on! Personally the more I work on jazz and latin the more I find myself liking it, but I have a mountain of work ahead of me to prepare for a Navy band audition... I'm going to learn to play marimba, and I am NOT looking forward to that at all! xD

That's the price of admission however, and I'll do whatever it takes to make a living from drums. It seems deciding to join a military band was the best thing I could have done, as I now have motivation to work on things I've always avoided!

vdreignsuponus1
05-09-2007, 12:03 PM
Sorry, I've been out the last few days. I've been rehearsing for a musical, and here I see that Virgil has come happily on the board with great advice! Heh, now I feel that I have missed so much! Never the less:

Well comments are one thing, but it can be easy to make comments and difficult to trudge through things you don't want to work on! Personally the more I work on jazz and latin the more I find myself liking it, but I have a mountain of work ahead of me to prepare for a Navy band audition... I'm going to learn to play marimba, and I am NOT looking forward to that at all! xD

That's the price of admission however, and I'll do whatever it takes to make a living from drums. It seems deciding to join a military band was the best thing I could have done, as I now have motivation to work on things I've always avoided!

I definately got my feet wet with jazz and latin a few years ago when I stepped out of the rock world from a die-hard Mike Portnoy fan to not being able to take my eyes off of people like Horacio Hernandez, Antonio Sanchez, Keith Carlock, and of course Dave Weckl and Vinnie Colaiuta. I became in love with Ed Soph after my summer at UNT. The man just has such a great mind on his shoulders, it's unbelievable! I remember seeing Victor Mendoza play at Berklee in '05 and it was only then that I started to really LOVE the MUSIC. At first I had just been practicing such for the coordination and feel, but later on, and even now, I love the stuff. Can't get enough!

As far as marimba, I have a bit of piano experience which has helped me out a lot. Still, I admit that I'm going into USM this fall and I am required to have the technique rather well, and I'm sort of suffering. It ended up being quite a task, so we're kind of in the same boat, but the Navy band huh? How cool. I wish you the best of luck with that cjc. :)

cjcdrums
05-10-2007, 01:25 AM
Sorry, I've been out the last few days. I've been rehearsing for a musical, and here I see that Virgil has come happily on the board with great advice! Heh, now I feel that I have missed so much! Never the less:

I definately got my feet wet with jazz and latin a few years ago when I stepped out of the rock world from a die-hard Mike Portnoy fan to not being able to take my eyes off of people like Horacio Hernandez, Antonio Sanchez, Keith Carlock, and of course Dave Weckl and Vinnie Colaiuta. I became in love with Ed Soph after my summer at UNT. The man just has such a great mind on his shoulders, it's unbelievable! I remember seeing Victor Mendoza play at Berklee in '05 and it was only then that I started to really LOVE the MUSIC. At first I had just been practicing such for the coordination and feel, but later on, and even now, I love the stuff. Can't get enough!

As far as marimba, I have a bit of piano experience which has helped me out a lot. Still, I admit that I'm going into USM this fall and I am required to have the technique rather well, and I'm sort of suffering. It ended up being quite a task, so we're kind of in the same boat, but the Navy band huh? How cool. I wish you the best of luck with that cjc. :)

Thank you kindly sir.

I have a tremendous amount of work before I'll be ready to audition. I'm not going to do it until I'm very ready, and so I'm looking at maybe a year(?) away. I have a fantastic teacher here, who will be able to help me tremendously with everything, especially marimba. My sight reading is going to have to SMOKE if I'm to do well on this audition too.

I'd consider myself pretty good on the kit (knowing what good really means!), but as a well rounded percussionist goes, I'm nowhere close.

I'm going to make this happen though.

Why a military band? Easy- because you get steady pay, HUGE benefits, and the G.I. Bill which pays for school. Not to mention all the experience and routine practice with other legitimately pro musicians. I consider it a stepping stone to a career in L.A. or N.Y., or if I like it enough, I'll stay in for a decade or two and get some nice fat retirement checks rolling in at the age of 40.

Why the Navy Band? They have a lot of small groups, meaning lots of drumset playing and less orchestral or marching stuff than the other branches.

Now I wonder if the G.I. Bill will pay for some time at Musicians Institute or Drummer's Collective.....

alencore
05-12-2007, 09:19 AM
wow THE MAN has posted, FINALLY! ....and with some humor hehehe loved it!

i was flirting to my co-worker online but somehow i got ditched lol
so reading that post of sir virgil helped heal the wound....hahahaha!!!
i really need to avoid these dumb bit-ches.

Anyway whatever things you guys are developing in drum universe stick to it as the man said
who knows you might get inducted bec. of it hehe. But then again don't loose
the ability to enjoy and play simple beats as I'm rediscovering nowadays.

alencore
05-12-2007, 09:29 AM
bwihihih...this is truly a brain twister. geeky stuff LOL!
but hey you guys who have nailed this down i applaude you
even if you do it at slow tempo.

now, how the heck can i use this in
a new wave band?......hehe.

alencore
05-12-2007, 10:01 AM
before i would try learn this i would program it first on a drum machine to check out
if it can yeild any interesting musical sense.

Matthias
05-12-2007, 02:18 PM
Well, to defend such patterns I'd like to say that even you barely find a musical situation to integrate them as such, they surely will help your playing in general, your sense of rhythm, your in- as well as interdependence, and your 4-way coordination.

polydrums
05-13-2007, 08:17 PM
Well, to defend such patterns I'd like to say that even you barely find a musical situation to integrate them as such, they surely will help your playing in general, your sense of rhythm, your in- as well as interdependence, and your 4-way coordination.


That is what I was saying all along there are some really good books if you want to work on the basic of Coordination and keep a grove happening
check out The New Breed books 1 and 2 also they will help a lot in that
Area and also help your reading at the same time. Dave Weckl was in
To the first on before he hooked up with Chick Corea. It is great because you sing all the part that you play along with playing all of them you can really start to understand what you are playing instead of guessing and it
Really helps your grove also. And then you can more on the advanced books like Virgil book and beyond. I saw Virgil in Phila and I love what he brought to the table for drumming and Music such passion and a nice flow of Rhythm
and ideas that come together as a nice roll a coaster of Sound Sight and Mind

IronCobraMan
05-17-2007, 07:53 PM
You can write out a reference sheet for yourself by boxing everything...it's aggravating, but it works. Stuff like that gets me through study hall :D

Mine turn out something like this...

RLRR|LRLL|RLRR|LRLL|RLRR|LRLL
RLRL|RRLR|LRLL|RLRL|RRLR|LRLL

Then just keep on going. It's a quick and easy way to see how each rudiment layers on top of each other. I group in fours for 16th notes (the only real experimenting I've done with the layering of rudiments has been in straight 4 with 16th note subdivisions), but you can do threes for triplets, etc.


yup thats how i got it down... i learned it in 3 parts tho.

Loreman
05-22-2007, 06:50 PM
Quite frankly, I can understand where CJC is coming from, and I understand his frustration. As a professional drum instructor I teach a lot of students. There are always a few guys who come to me with some already established technique but they want to further their knowledge of the drum set, or perhaps polish up on some existing technique, or perhaps they have a problem they want to iron out (we all have problems to iron out, there are innumerous things that I can't play, there is only so many hours in the day, and bills to pay, practice priorities etc.) and this is fine.

The problem I see is I get a lot of young guys coming in, who have practiced up on say a tricky polyrhythm pattern, or they have worked heaps on their hand speed, and so on, but they can barely even hit the drums properly, no quality to their playing. Basically these people are copying a pattern, not teaching their body the skills to acquire true independence, or even use it in a practical, sensible way. What’s the point of training to be a drum soloist when you can't even phrase a nice open fill around the drum kit 'in time'?

I mean, I see guys who can't even play some of the more basic funk, or fusion ride cymbal patterns up against straight kick and snare placements, yet they can play a polyrhythm? I mean WTF! Sure I have trained hard on technique and speed and so on, but that came after I had been studying drums for a long time with a good teacher. Why so many people learning (or copying) all these drum solo licks and chops and that is ALL they practice or play? Are they expecting to make a career as a drum soloist? It is extremely unlikely.

Look at those youtube vids of Virgil playing in Southern Sons, they are the skills to pay the bills, not a polyrhythm, or a layered pattern, or whatever else might be tricky or impressive. I mean, how about practicing how to hit the snare properly to get a good tone?

Another example, I had a young guy who came in wanting some 'advanced instruction'. During the catch up, introduction session, he's showing some technique, playing some patterns that he had obviously memorized, some blazing hands etc. But when I put on a click track he couldn't play in time! He could blaze around the kit but he couldn't construct a nicely phrased fill maybe using some flams, or 'leaving space' or so on. Also he could not play to a basic odd time loop and put in fills or anything (like 7/4, 7/8, etc.) and he wanted to carve it up in a hot fusion band or something.

The point is he had spent all this time in his first years of playing practicing the stuff which should come later, not only did it take a lot longer to achieve acceptable results with these advanced concepts, he was basically wasting his time.

Having said all that, I am all for 'pushing the envelope', just be sensible about your own playing, and where you are at. If you have been studying by yourself for a while, it doesn't hurt to book in every now and then with a good teacher just to get a 'check up'. Ultimately though I guess my post applies to those who are seeking drums as a 'career', if you just do it as a hobby, and have fun with these sorts of things then by all means roll on.

J.Percy

Matthias
05-22-2007, 11:21 PM
wow, good post, I'm fully with you!

EricDrumz
05-26-2007, 04:24 AM
i saw the clip at youtube, it's just amazing.
i also can't do Ataraxia convincingly or Thinking stone,
and this must be harder.
my left foot when it's on the hh, doesn't want to quit
being a "timekeeper", my mind sees a hh-diddle as a
mistake (i can do splashed hh patterns though)
but i'll have to find a new "place" where to feel time,
i think i'll just start with paradiddles lf/lh and
playing simple beats on the right, that's my goal for now..
but i agree, there's just too much to practice.