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View Full Version : I wanna talk bout Virg's upcoming book!


jimi
05-17-2003, 02:50 AM
Heard he was writing one what seems like SO long ago, but i've been thinking lots about it lately since Jeppe (morganthaler) informed me that it could be as close as a year or year and a half away before it could be available.
I want discuss what exactly ye think would be in it.
I should make a poll actually!

Anyway, besides the obvious and expected double-bass tricks and drills, i feel there will be more in depth discussion on his ostinato technique. Alot of us who have TUDW will know what i mean. I think he will go in depth about polyrhythm/limb independence (which the ostinato pattern starts us on ).
This also ties in with his 'Layered Groove Theory' (which again, we saw a bit of on TUDW).

No doubt, even though he has really described about power, speed and endurance in his video he will mention some more or just bring back some of the exercises with a suggestion to buy the video if you want more!
This is all presuming that the book is a general drum method book, or insight into his drumming style/technique. It could very well focus on a specific aspect, but i think the more general it is the wider audience it will reach.
I hope he mentions his alien crossovers, but to be honest, its easy to grasp the movement, you just need to be so powerful to do it as fast as he does (the guy has biceps behind his ears for god sake:D )

Let me know your thoughts, i think this is a very exciting project in the making, now all we need to hear about is a new solo project!

Take care, Think Virg and KEEP drumming!

DoubleBass_Rob
05-17-2003, 06:07 AM
I've heard it may include a play along package, OTV stuff.

jimi
05-18-2003, 03:47 AM
Speaking of OTV stuff, what is the polyrhythm in Alien Hip-hop?
I know it's in 4/4 but i don't the relationship between the bass and hi-hat snare combination.
Can anyone explain it?

frank
05-18-2003, 06:01 AM
Wow, if it comes with an OTV play along CD I definitely should get it!!!! It would be so great to play along Pyramids on Mars, Native Metal, and maybe some other stuff that I MIGHT be able to play along.. :D:D

The book wouldn't really interest me, it would be in english and I know very little about the meaning of certain drumterms, even in my own language, let alone in english!!

morgenthaler
05-22-2003, 08:01 AM
Hey Jimi
What do you mean with the polyrhythm in Alien Hip Hop?
The snare "hits" in the song is actually "just" filling in some blanks (or dubbing) of the broken 16 note triplets the bassdrum is playing!
This is a pretty thin explanation ...I know.

jimi
05-22-2003, 09:31 AM
No thats something, thanks! There's two rhythms that you can feel,
1. hihat and snare in 4/4
2. doublebass groove with guitar and keyboards

I'll listen again now and see what i come up with, because it's not the hardest technically to play, i just could'nt keep both in time. (which is why i used the word polyrhythm)
If you (or anyone) can explain more please do, and THANKS! :-)

EDIT:I'm half asleep today, doh!

maggimus
05-22-2003, 02:38 PM
Actually Morgenthaler (with all respect) the triplets are 8th note triplets...Virgil actually gave me a chart of this song (not the drum part though) and the bass is playing 8th note triplets and obviously Virgil follows that rhythm w/his bass drum..I'll try to explain what's going on soon...or maybe the master himself can post some tips on these thoughts..how about that Virgil?:)

jimi
05-23-2003, 01:05 AM
so that means it's just accented hihat 8th notes against 8th note triplets with the feet, right??? (3 against 2 with phuct up accents in other words)

DoubleBass_Rob
05-23-2003, 11:09 PM
Keyboard parts with the hands, bass/guitar parts with the feet.

jimi
05-24-2003, 02:01 AM
ok, if the double bass is in 8th note triplets, it doesn't work at all at the 4/4 tempo. i used Finale and found a tempo 8th note=180.
If i use 16th note triplets, that turns the groove into a four bar repeating phrase with the 4/4 time hihat snare layer over it. Remember the layered groove theory and examples from TUDW?
I made a JPG and midi file with the bass drum layer but i can't seem to upload them but i'll ask Dave Partay about it. I'll put it up as soon as i can:) Or else Email me and i can send it, ok?

Its not the best to read but it can help show you where the 4/4 beat is. Everyone knows how the doublebass sounds though so i think its okay.

kirk
05-24-2003, 10:09 AM
Jimi if you watch Alien Hip-Hop on the Conn. video which I know you have you will see that the hi-hat and snare if you count it out is simply coming out at 4/4. Virgil does all the interdependence accenting over the 4/4 which gives it a polyrhythmic feel. The accenting is the STUFF which is difficult for ALL of us to get down because of the dexterity it takes to be able to do it and still GROOVE! I watch it and in my head I push out the bass drum part and just listen to the hat and snare. Honestly if Virgil was consistently playing all the over the top(accenting) patterns with the hands along with the bass drum pattern without coming back and playing straight up on the hi-hat and snare it would be in an odd time or times, it would become outrageously polyrhythmic.

Regards Kirk

jimi
05-24-2003, 10:26 AM
Interdependence is right word alright kirk! I was practising it all day but i can't take my eyes off the page yet because i cant feel the rhythm yet in my head or without the track playing.
Maybe i should get Minnemanns 'Extreme Interdependence' book and do some exercises first, and then come back to this then?

jimi
05-25-2003, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by maggimus
Actually Morgenthaler (with all respect) the triplets are 8th note triplets...Virgil actually gave me a chart of this song (not the drum part though) and the bass is playing 8th note triplets and obviously Virgil follows that rhythm w/his bass drum.

Maybe the bass part was in 8th note triplets because it was easier to read (wasn't so cluttered on the page)? Not sure, but in relation to the drum part as a whole, if each accented hihat beat is a quarter note, the bass drum has to be 16th note triplets. (if it wasn't, the hihat parts would be a 'half' note (or whatever the term is for a crotchet beat).
You get what i'm saying maggimus??

TUDW
05-26-2003, 01:53 AM
were did you get that sheet? And (you probaly know) but its not straight? Its sort of da dada dadadadada etc. Its hard, but what isint hard that he doesnt do! Any way, it would be great for him to publish a sheet or something with a cd to play along or, make a separate cd like you said with the book like Frank Corniola bok RCD (Rhythem Section Drumming). Lastly, whats with do u know the muffin man?

jimi
05-26-2003, 02:39 PM
My sheet or the one maggimus was given?

I made up a transcription of the groove myself, as i said i made a midi file of the groove and the notation of the double bass in relation to 4/4 time.


Originally posted by TUDW
Lastly, whats with do u know the muffin man?

If you've seen a film called Shrek, you'll know :D

jemmy
05-28-2003, 02:02 AM
Virgil did a clinic in Helmond, the Netherlands in 2002 where he handed out a few sheets with some examples of the famous layered groove theory, including Alien Hip-Hop.
It is indeed in 4/4-time, but with an ostinato in the double bass that lasts for 16 triplet eights. Therefore, it takes three repeats of the ostinato to end up in four 4/4-measures. The ostinato is:

||: x _ x x _ x x _ x x _ x x x x _ :||

where 'x' is a triplet eight and '_' is a triplet eight rest.

Actually, he notated eight 4/4-measures, since after three repetitions of the triplet eights-ostinato your feet end up the other way around (starting with right foot, means starting the fifth measure with left foot).

I'll see if I can scan those sheets and put them up somewhere (with permission, of course) :)

jimi
05-28-2003, 04:00 AM
Sound Man!! And if you aren't allowed, please email me!

cjcdrums
12-15-2004, 08:32 PM
Now THIS is what I call an old thread!