increasing speed on the bassdrum..

[frank]

Hey guys!
I'm sure you guys can help me out with this one..
I've been playing my twinpedal for 2 years now.. And although my playing and independence with it has grown for the last two years, my speed (nearly) hasn't!! I can do double bassdrums at 160 BPM..

Today I tried to practice speed.. just single strokes first..
I came up with this:

RRRRRRRR LLLLLLLL RRRRRRRR LLLLLLLL

on and on and on.. I decided to do it at about 10 minutes as fast as I could, and I intend to do this every day.

Will this help me?

Or do you guys know any other ways of increasing speed with the bassdrums?

Help is much appreciated!

Greetz,
Frank

[quitou]

I find the best way for myself to play really quickly is to use the rebound of the beater off the head....I try not to burry the beater into the drum head....I play the stroke and let the beater bounce all the way back off the head....this will give the beater a really nice consistent and smooth motion (kinda like bouncing a ball on the ground)....the hard part, and what takes some time to develop, is being able to control the beater when you are letting it bounce like that....it just takes some time and practicing the motion really slowly so that you can develop a good smooth and consistant stroke.....this works realy well for me (I have played singles like this at 225 BPM).....I'm not sure if this approach will work for everyone, but I have found it produces great results with myself.

[Cesar]

What quitou said is true. Making the beater bounce back is a very good technique. I myself dont really know how to explain it to you even thought I do it myself. But who taught me to play like that was Steve Smith. IF money isnt an issues I suggest you to buy his Dvd " Drumset Teachnique/History of The U.S Beat"! It´s a great dvd. The first dvd teaches all this techniques about drumming which can ALWAYS help you. And the 2nd dvd is more Steve Smith playing Early New Orleans Jazz,Big Band,Bebop,R&B,Blues,Country,Rock, Funk and Fusion. Its a great dvd! I suggest it to anyone.

[quitou]

That's kinda funny that you mentioned Steve Smith's DVD, because that is also where I learned this approach for playing with the feet. I really like his DVD as well.

[peter]

I think playing all your rhythms, with
your left foot will also contribute to
your speed, eventually but more im-
portantly, it will develop your control,
which will also help your speed. :)

[bouts]

hi,
Playing with rebound is a good technique, but playing groove only with your left foot as principal Bass Drum is a very good idea, this will give you independence, précision, and control, like peter said.
at least it's working for me.

[Brobjer]

I agree with Quitou that it's often hard to fully control your feet when you play with bounce. I play with bounce technique right after i pass 150 bpm. It easy to play 200+, but harder to play 160, 170 clean.. Hehe, it's as little wierd! :D

[newbeat]

You're only as fast as your weaker (usually left) foot...so I suggest you do excercises to build it up. Just do single strokes with each foot by itself for several minutes, building up speed. When you feel that burn in your shin, that's a good sign that you're building new muscle that will help you.

[MaltBuddow3]

repitition is the key.... do it for 10 minutes straight every day and you'll be doing fine... remember this kind of control we're all working towards takes time

[MaltBuddow3]

oh yeah... I've found this one to be really helpful... Chicago has a tune "25 or 6 to 4" and Danny Seraphine plays eigth notes through the whole song... I like to play it with the right foot, and then repeat the song with the left foot playing... and it's about 5 minutes long, nice workout.

[Lucius]

Thats a good idea, although, I dont think that you have to find a song that has the person playing 8th's on the bass drum, just find a song with a consistant tempo and do what Malt said... :D

[SENÉN]

hi, i,m from spain and i need some paradiddle exercices to practice my technique, could you send me some of these? :)

[MaltBuddow3]

1)4 paradiddles, 2 double paradiddles, 2 triple paradiddles, then back down and back up etc... 8th note never changes and there are no stops when chaning sticking(footing). Then once you can do that try to put it over a groove.

2)paradiddles on hands and feet at the same time.. moving hands around the kit and gradually increasing tempo...

3)diddles on the feet with paradiddles on the hands(ride and snare) for a nice independence groove... you can also invert the diddles on the feet like in Virg's 97 video.

I like to practice everything heel down... it helps keep my heel down even when I play with my toe.

There's my two cents... hope that helps!!! Keep practicing!!!

[vdreignsuponus1]

lately, when it comes to double-bass, ive been practicing paradidles and double-paradidles. really, in my oppinion, anything that u do on the bass drum that has continuous accents can always help develop ur strength and speed. or atleast, so ive experienced.:D

[iwishiwasbetter]

One exercise that I like and I do as a warm-up is (this is going to be hard to explain so please bear with me) playing in measures of six. You play every down beat with your right hand and snare with your left on 4 (standard 6/4 beat) but with your feet you play (alternating RL) on the downbeats for the first measure, eigth notes the next, triplets the next and then sixteenths. I love this exercise. It really cleans up your bass drum rolls and teaches you to keep an even number of strokes in between and always end up on the foot you started with. Also I used to play with leg weights on when I was younger but I don't know if that will help that much.

[treyharding]

Not to put quitou down or anything but letting the beater bounce off the head is kind of the cheap way out. If you ever watch virgils videos, you will notice that when he does single strokes in the higher bpm's that all of his strokes are full impact hits and not bounce. I usually do the single stroke sixteenth note to sixteenth note triplet exercise like in virgils membership class. I also do the same exercise for doubles of cource increasing the tempo gradually.

[peter]

Don't get on Quitou for bouncing the beaters.
Get on me because I am the one who encour-
aged people to do it. Now, if you are convinced
that, over 200bpm, Virgil is not bouncing at all,
you keep on working on it.

Of course, this point will all be made moot, when
Virgil tells premium members about what he's
doing exactly, down below, over 200bpm or
even 180bpm.

My view is that you should treat your feet just
like your hands. When you take them over 200,
you are most likely utilizing some bounce. I see
controlling the bounce and response off the head
just as important, at high speeds.

Of course, always work on your individual strokes
but don't claim or interpret 'no-bounce', when it's
always there, exerting its influence on all drummers,
especially at the higher speeds.

[C.J.]

Like Lang said do not seach for speed but control! I garantee you if you aquire control by doing technical exercices with your feet, your speed will grow. But patience is the key! While practicing your technique, try out the stick control exercices from the first page, and allways make sure you are souding right. Do not only seach for speed, speed without control is pointless...

I must say that I do not understand why most of you allways seek just for "speed"... :confused: I really don't get it...

[peter]

CJ,

I wish you could read Virgil's latest lesson. Not
everyone here is seeking 'just speed'. They're just
refering to the metronome, that's all. When I spoke
of what happens at plus 200bpm, it was strictly a
physics comment. I did not say - "Do not practice
your single strokes."

You should practice everything slow, including your
attempts at controlling bounces. Study your body
motion and keep in mind your goals.

Of course, control is your ally and you should always
be improving on that.

[Xen-]

As Thomas Lang shows it on his DVD, you can learn to control the bounce, which isn't cheating at all. I practiced that way and it worked. Thanks to Peter for convincing me to do that!

[Kinetic drummer]

I´ve Practiced Double Bass Since Always... But My Approach In This Month Became Obsessive, I Practiced Everyday... 2hours, Besides I Practiced With My Band..
I Cant Pass The 190... I Barely Play Even Strokes

What The Hell Is Happening To Me!!!!
Someone Has Passed For This¡¡¡¿

[peter]

Kinetic,

First off, 190bpm is great!

If you can work everything and well, at this speed,
you are ahead of the pack!

Man! Don't be too hard on yourself!

[Wojtek]

Recently I've started tu use the plastic face of beater (I use double eliminators/belt), and in my opinion this surface provide more control and even increase speed. Maybe because of different centre of gravity or something. I don't know, but I feel more comfortable playing this surface.
I used to use the felt beater because it was more natural for me and I was afraid to not damage my head too. But now I use the plastic beater and head "falam slam" protector by remo and it works great.

P.s Notice that Virg always uses plastic surface, he he!

[shaftninja]

Playing on a left-handed configuration yielded fast results for my left foot rather fast. Also, every week I have a little routine kind of centered around the exercises included in Virgil's MD Fest '97 VHS.

[Matus]

Bouncing the beater is no easy or cheap way, it's a way of playing. The sound is different (fuller, more boomy) and the respones IS different, actually it's equally difficult to gain control over that bounce so it's no short path.
I recommend playing that way (and I do play that way) because it economizes movement and effort, not to mention the sound is more pleasant to my ears. It allows me to play comfortably at 190 or 200 bpm without getting tired and the sounds is more continuous to me. Also, it's easier to play burying the beater when you master this technique and it allows me to play samba patterns somewhat emulating a surdo sound by muting the head with the stroke itself.
With ANY technique you chose, it's always about control. Always practice below your maximum speed focusing on the movement, being relaxed and getting equal strokes, well spaced and controlled. Eventually you'll get faster without noticing it at first and it will feel better because you'll be relaxed when playing at high speeds.

[Kinetic drummer]

PETER! TANX!! BUT I WE ALL HAVE TO BE HARD ON OURSELVES!, OTHERWISE I WONT INCREASE MY SKILLS. HE HE...it works for me!.. but in the other hand i fell very frustated...

matus... i know every human is different... i do practice the way you said..practicing below your maximum speed.. NOW a few questions


how much time did you take to build up a good speed... lets say... i´ve practiving formaly like aroung 4 months. i started with the same speed, and i still have the same speed!! man!!!
how long did it take to you?
and howmuch time did you practice daily?
anyway... my brain is stocked now, and i cant xplain in english.. i will send you a mail or a private message explaining you in spanish...
;) then i could write it for all you guys...

tanx a lot!

[peter]

Lately, I just play Invisible Man a few times...

Then, my legs are sore.... :D

[Matus]

I think I first started playing double pedal when I was... 15, but don't take my word for that, I'm not sure but it was around that time. So that would make it around 6 years playing it. I didn't really work on it, just developed it naturally since I wasn't practicing hard at that time and wasn't taking lessons (that started in 2000). So just playing for a number of years at least gives you the basic technical aspect and a bit of speed if you do it regularly and force yourself to play kinda hard stuff (which I did with my band then).
I started working again on this about a year and a half ago and I gave it enough time a bit later, when I decided to tackle some stuff I thought as "impossible" but then saw another guy doing it in front of me (namely doubles) and said... WTF :D and went for it.
So it's no rule for anyone, it depends on your physical development speed and your learning curve. Don't be discouraged, tho. It does take time but even if you don't notice a speed increase maybe you're getting more relaxed at it and that is a great progress. If you're not feeling more relaxed you really should focus more on that.
Now, a good exercise I use is the one called Endurance For Singles. It's actually designed to strengthen the hands but works for the feet, too. It goes like this:
Take a 4/4 bar and fil it with 16ths, alternating singles. Then take the last one and double it in two 32nds. It makes you change the leading hand for the next bar. It would go like...
R L R L - R L R L - R L R L - R L R LR
L R L R - L R L R - L R L R - L R L RL
etc
So, play four bars of that. One starting with the right, then with the left, then the right and the last one with the left. The next step is doubling two 16ths, which keeps you leading with the same hand.
R L R L - R L R L - R L R L - R L RLRL
And repeat 4 times. You get the hang of that. You keep doubling one note each time until the whole bar is filled with 32nd notes. When you have played four bars full of 32nds then you go back in the exercise until you end in the #1 with only the last two 32nds.
The whole thing takes a few minutes (5 or 10 at most) and is a really good exercise to develop speed and endurance on your hands and/or feet. When working on it (and with any exercise) you should focus on:
- Being relaxed in your grip, stroke technique and posture. If you feel pain or any kind of weird thing STOP. Relax for a while, lower the tempo and keep going. If it still hurts drop it and work on more calm stuff.
-Having good note spacing. Also, play WITH the metronome.
- Getting equal and even individual strokes.

And I can't think of anything else worth mentioning regarding this one...

[swedendrummer]

Gary Chaffee method for endurance.....like that one to!

[Matus]

Exactly! Heheh, I always forget it's Chaffee's method because it's not in any of my books, I have a hand written version by him (well, a copy that my teacher gave me) so I still don't associate it with him, even though I know it's his notation. I also have hand written pages of the double strokes section on Sticking Patterns, got them before buying the book.