heal up or down?

[swedendrummer]

im a drummer whos playing heel down all the time except strong accents...i got pretty much power and can play for a long time with heel down techniqe. It feels like i have more control with that thing! i do singles about 220 bpm to! and doubles about 160 bpm..

[jonberg]

If you are comfortable with the heel down technique, I think you should stay to that, but learn the other way to...there are things that are much easier with heel up.
I can´t imagine playing doubles with the feet...with heels down, at 160bpm, me personally don´t think that´s possible.
Good luck!!

[jagdkommando]

I played heel down for 10 years ... then I met Virgil and he convinced me using heel up. I practice it for 10months now and I'm so much better now ... speed, control and precision are much better now. Try it - you'll never regret (and never give up ... it's a hard way at the beginning, because you have to totally change your sitting-position ... but with this new position you will feel much better). Good luck!

[swedendrummer]

but many drummers use heal down.....not as many who plays heal up but i think a good way is to combinate both techniques!

[jagdkommando]

you are right ... I didn't want to convice you to forget the heel down thing ... I also use it for some rythms and feeling ... however it is a MUST BE for my taste to learn heel up either :)

[peter]

I have talked a lot of drummers and while it is true that many more play heel up today than down, I have also seen that many have changed from one to the other over time.

Something else I have learned over the years is that drummers change for a reason. They'll only change for a reason and it's got to be a good one.

If you have a lot of control and power, with your heel down, by all means, continue your successful actions. If three's something that you have seen that you want, in going heel-up, by all means, let's go for it.

I'm not surprised that you can get what you need done, with your heel-down. There's nothing like fact to put down rumor. There's a control issue with heel-down that seems virtually unquestionable and that is that there's more control for most. The sacrifice is power for most.

I posted these video elsewhere but they may be applicable here:

www.thediametrixletter.com/1.mov
www.thediametrixletter.com/2.mov
www.thediametrixletter.com/3.mov

Check them out and tell me what you think. This is not me but the developer of the attachment using it. This is just food for thought, especially if you're thinking of incorporating your heel.

I am a heel-down player and one who also gets a lot of speed and power, using the approach BUT I have been a single-kick player for years and an issue to think about is balance. Look at my calves and you will see the obvious difference. My right is larger than my left. Understandably.

What I love about Virgil is that, whie he plays traditional, his approach to the drums is quite balanced. We have to at least consider doing what he's demonstrated but not do it just because he does it; rather because it works for us. I'm sure he'd say that too.

[Matias]

Hi everybody, my name is Matias, i'm from Argentina (so I hope you understand my poor English), and I wanted you to explain me how to develop the Heel-up playing please.

I've downloaded the videos that Peter had posted, and I believe that it's the Heel-down "mode" :) , and that that guy uses that calves (i hope not to be wrong, and they mean what I want them to mean :D ) because he has a big foot, am I right?

I would be really gratefull If someone can explain/show me how to develop the Heel-up playing.

It's nice to have the opportunity of talking with other musicians, so i think i'll be here for a long time :)

Thanks!!

[peter]

Matias,

Do you know of Alex Sanguinetti? He's from Argentina and one of the finest drummers, now living in Germany.

The video IS NOT an example of clinical heel-up playing but just a demonstration of how the VRUK attachment is used. It's something that I have been experimenting with lately. I didn't mean to throw you off. I think I should refer you to the VRUK site because there are some links there that go into the physics of kicking that are interesting. What Vuk is doing in these video is a variation of heel-up but because the attachment is set up, it's set off by the heel as a result.

http://www.vrukpedal.com/whatisvruk.htm

On the left, use the info links to find out some more.

I'll try and see if I can dig up some video for you to look at.

To my compadres in Argentina,

[Matias]

Mil Gracias!

Thanks a lot!

:)

[alencore]

i notice once Virgil start playing really fast db flurries he does use the heel up but the work goes more on the ankle with a little help from the hip. more like the wrist and arm approach for playing double and single strokes for the hand.

[swedendrummer]

its funny because im righthanded ..and leftfooted!! a strange way but my parents told me that i was lefthanded in my younger years.....i think this is great for my foot technique!

[joeyphilippines]

you are right ... I didn't want to convice you to forget the heel down thing ... I also use it for some rythms and feeling ... however it is a MUST BE for my taste to learn heel up either :)
joey jordison is the fastest legs i ever seen and one time i watch slipknot in dvd i see his feet,its very fast.....one time i try it but it is hard..

[Lucius]

I can´t imagine playing doubles with the feet...with heels down, at 160bpm, me personally don´t think that´s possible.

I think it's possible, Lang can do it. :cool:

[jimi]

What about this Derek Roddy dude. There was a clip posted here ages ago. He had some very fast feet, and esp. alternating between his hands and feet in single strokes!

[candyman]

Derek Roddy has his springs jacked up and kind of swivels his ankles when he plays the pedals. I use to play heel down and sucked on double bass. I started learning heel up and at first it felt like crap, but I am glad I stuck with it. So I think it is worth the switch.

[vdreignsuponus1]

lately, up, but its good to switch now and then. the usual is up, i must say, but when it comes to doubles on a single pedal, there is a sharing situation going on, u know it goes..

[MaltBuddow3]

well... I've been practicing my double bass starting heel down, and with more speed I switch to toe, but since I've been working more heel down my toe down position has changed drastically, and I have much better balance now. When I play with my toe, my heel only comes up about an inch at the most... tis wonderful!

[blackzoner]

Well Maltbuddow3, I like to heal up, as the other way is bad for your health!

Just kidding, just kidding.
So HEEL up or HEEL down?

I say BOTH. I feel it's best to develope both techniques to the best of you ability, because both have their advantages. While you CAN play heel up & play softly, I think it's best to delevope the heel down technique for softer bass drum playing.

Depending on many aspects, I think for power you can get more heel up, but that's really each person's preference. However, I use heel's UP for power & speed, although IF you develope you feet properly, you can attain both speed & power heels down. just remember to release the beater from the bass drum head playing heel up after each stroke, but you know all of this.

Just check out Virgil's 1997 MD Fest video where he plays with his back to the audience, he uses BOTH styles of playing & can get just about any sustained rate of speed & power using either.

[Lad.]

For me, playing heel down is like trying to run with your legs completely straight ( run Forest, run! ). I personally think that a lot better control comes with having your heels up. Heel down makes for a softer beat though, depending on which Phil Collins song you're playing...but for Heel up, it's just all around good. Speaking of which, I personally don't like Phil Collins...so no hard feelings there.

[iwishiwasbetter]

I play heel up and always have, but after watching the Creative Control dvd by Thomas Lang it makes me wish I could do both. My heel down is so poor I can't even always get the beaters to hit the head haha... it's so sad. My double-strokes are really weak too, but I've clocked myself at 250 bpm heel up so I guess I shouldn't be too bummed. I guess what it all boils down to is whatever works and feels comfortable for the individual.

[iwishiwasbetter]

oops... 16th notes at 250bpm. Just wanted to clarify.