how fast is vrigil

[stapper15]

hey guys im sure this is asked alot, but im new around here and dont knwo that much. but how fast is virgil? how fast is he on the metronom?


stapper

[mauricio]

You mean with double strokes on the bass drum? Or singles with the hands? Perhaps singles with the foot?

[stapper15]

um... all three

[MaltBuddow3]

I think I read somewhere that with his feet he can play 800bpm comfortably, and can push out 1,000, but dont take that as absolute truth. I think that was on a live chat or something. I dont know about his hands. I would guess around 1,000 or 1,100 maybe...??? But he emphasizes that the music is the important thing, not how fast you can play. (easy for him to say)

[jagdkommando]

I think his limit for "very clean" doubles on bassdrum is around 200bpm (each 4) ... see MD97 Video where he seems to be at the limit with doubles.

[MaltBuddow3]

ooooo... I forgot about that video... honestly I think he was kinda nervous... does anyone know if that was his first US performance? plus I'm sure he's gotten more speed and control since then... he's a perfection freak!

[peter]

Fast enough! :)

[quitou]

Ya, I'm sure he can do them a lot quicker now....that MD video was like 6 or 7 years ago, and knowing how comitted Virgil is to practicing and improving, I'm sure he's gotten much much better since then (6 or 7 years is a long time, and a lot of improvement can occur in that time).....I'm sure he can play doubles well over 200 now....I mean, he'd have to be able to in order to play dogboots (even though it only at 200bpm, this speed has to be maintained for long time).....and I remember Timthedrummer saying that Pete Drummond can do doubles at like 260 or 270 BPM.....if he can do that I'm sure Virgil isn't far behind.

[stapper15]

Thanx guys! can anyone in here play that fast? i know i can do a constent doubles at 200,210 bpm. but i use a good tech. heal toe iv been doing it 5 years now and have really gotten go at it. and once i found out about vrigil he got me to be more in to double bass playing and tech stuff!

[stapper15]

Wow! 270!!!!!! thats soem fast feet

[kirk]

Now I am quoting in general from statements Virgil himself has made.

In an interview done about 1 1/2 years ago Virgil said reluctantly that he can do well over 1000 single's in a minute and that is VERY CLEAN because if it is not he does not waste his time with it. What is well over I do not know probably just that I guess coming from Virgil.

Doubles well let's look at it from one perspective. I have seen him do doubles between 200 and 210 for long periods of time, I mean a number of minutes and solo over the top of that with his hands like I have seen nobody solo with their hands alone. That gives us an idea of what he could do if it was just his feet!!! Good Gosh!

He also said a few years ago in a very modest reply that he could do spurts at 230 to 240 if I remember correctly hope I am in a musical situation not just in a practice feet mode. I have no doubt he is able in a "just practice mode" to pull off doubles even greater than that. The thing amazing about Virg along with the speed even more than that is he can rudimentally pull off with his feet what most cannot do with their hands. His rudimental command with his feet is not unlike with his hands. Doing double parradiddlle-diddle's at blinding speed, someone asked him to do it at a clinic kind of as a joke and Virg obliged.I remember Mangini when preparing to do a duel clinic saying and I quote "I better be practicing my Butt! off if I want to get up on the same stage with Virgil because his feet are definitely beyond mine specifically in the speed, cleanliness and projection department. Virgil's endurance and projection is twice what I have heard from others.

But as has been said before the focus with Virg is control control control and applying it all in a very musical sense.

Hope this helps Regards Kirk

[Tool]

In Drum! Mag Virgil said that he can do doubles at 200bpm for half a minute and 230bpm for short times......I think the article´s from 2001 or so
He also said that he built up his speed within 10years time

[kirk]

In 97 he was already doing doubles for half a minute at 200 bpm.
If i am not mistaken Dog Boots is done at 200 and that song is
a few minutes long and he laying down some wicked patterns over the top of it on the Live From Oz disc. On the Connetticut clinic tape he is doing doubles a number of times at 200 for LONG
burst's well over 30 seconds and soloing over the top of it. Heck in 1991(thirteen years ago) he is doing very fluid doubles at 180 and doing some freaky soloing over the top. 200 and beyond now is no doubt not a problem for him in a musical situation.

But goodness what is the need for anything over 200 other than to push one's self physically and see how far you can go, musically I do not see the need.

Kirk

[Tool]

Dude, I just typed what was in Drum!
So wtf.......?

[kirk]

Tool what i said has nothing to do with you, I said it as my own opinion if you are referring to the latter about anything over 200
not necceessarily being musically essential, so hopefully you do not get upset over that, it was not written to you. And the previous is right on the vid's, again it has nothing to do with you
it is just info.
Peace Kirk

[mtgarrett]

Hey what's up guys I was wondering if you could help me understand something....
When you guys say Virgil is playing doubles at 200BPM - are you talking 16th notes, or 32nds or what?
I'm guessing he's playing two hits for every 8th note? Because if he's doing 2 hits for every 16th note at 200BPM (equaling a 32nd note roll) I'd have to see it to believe it! :D

[kirk]

Hey MT yes the doubles are done at 2 hit's every 16th. You start out with 8th's for sure but in time 16th's are the next step. Wish
I could show you the one exercise that Virgil was doing back on ther 97 MD vid where he is filling in with 16th note triplet doubles.
There are actually different ways of incorporating doubles into your playing.

Actually there are some good discusion of exercises on the
"How fast do you play doubles" thread on this same page check it out. Hope this helps.

Kirk

[mtgarrett]

Thanks for the reply Kirk - but I'd still have to see it to believe it! So if he's hitting two strokes per 16th note, then you're telling me he can play 32nd double stroke rolls at 200BPM? I've never even seen anyone do that with their hands - buzz rolls yea, but not clean 32nd note double strokes.
Oh well, I guess I'll have to check it out myself. Thanks again.

[Revan]

Well, yes and no. He's playing two 16th notes in a row with each foot during a double-stroke roll, so it would look something like this: RRLLRRLL. This would equate to being able to play bursts of 4 32nds at 200bpm to the quarter if you alternated the feet. So, yes, he's technically playing what would equal 32nds, but they are actually 16th notes.

[kirk]

MT it is just playing straight 16th's and doubling up. It is not playing 32nd's and doubling up that would be INSANE:D

Kirk

[mtgarrett]

Right, that's what I thought......

So:

1e&a 2e&a 3e&a 4e&a 1 would be played rrll rrll rrll rrll r

Correct?

[Mack N Drum]

Saying 200 bpm just sounds more impressive. You see, he's playing 16th's at 200, so, if you were to cut that tempo in half, he's playing 32nd's at 100 bpm. So, in looking at it from the 200 perspective, he's playing:

RR (1e) LL (&a) RR (2e) LL (&a) etc.

He usually does an inverted double stroke:

RLLRRLLRR etc.

Dog Boots from Planet X/Universe is over 3 minutes of him doing this at 200 bpm.

[Mack N Drum]

Originally posted by kirk
But goodness what is the need for anything over 200 other than to push one's self physically and see how far you can go, musically I do not see the need.

Kirk

Musically, I don't see the need for doubles on the bass drum anyway. They take an absurdly long time to develop (it took Virgil longer than many of us have been playing to get to the 200 bpm mark comfortably) and 1) most drummers at the MD Fest '97 didn't know they were hearing doubles until Virgil did the clinic portion, 2) most people can't tell the difference, and 3) they get buried under the mix and, therefore, really only work for solos and clinics. They're a great discipline and impressive to other drummers, but even Virgil rarely uses them in a band setting. It should be noticed that most of the patterns that he does on Planet X and related albums are that of the single variety. Plus, fast singles are still the scariest rudiment for both the feet and hands--and a true test of genetic mutant-ness.

(We all know that Tim Waterson's world record performance sounded like a*s and had no musical practicality; he even said it himself.)

[jonberg]

I think it´s all about stretching the limit, maybe in 50-100 years it´s just as normal playing doubles in the feet as playing it with the hands!!!! There is a difference in the sound that´s produced when playing doubles, and you can use is musically, just look at Virgil. When other musicians hear about other musicians (like Virgil) doing insane things on their instruments they might have that in mind when they hire that person to a gig etc.
Keep on doubling, that´s my melody =)
Cheers!!

[kirk]

I definitely think doubles stand out from singles just like they do with the hands. I like the guy's who have a wicked doubles with the hands alot more compared with the guy's who are limited to just the single stroke. The double's with the feet add color and texture to one's playing like any other rudiment, applied correctly.
But after a certain level of speed it is JUST SPEED, to me anyways.
The effect of adding color and texture and stretching the barriers of creativity have been achieved. But being able to further push yourself physically is GREAT to, nothing wrong with it. There is no doubt when you have trained your body and mind to a high level
you can raise the bar creatively and musically when the time comes for it, just as Virg has been able to.

I love his quote back in Modern Drummer when he was on the cover. I am motivated to get better by thinking of things I know I am capable of accomplishing in my mind but having to work physically to achieve it. That keeps me from becoming complacent.
That is a WONDERFUL attitude to have.

Waterson might be fast but he is no Virgil or Lang, just does not have the clarity and control and projection. Some guy's do them but they sound like crap.

Kirk

[peter]

I have come to know Tim and think he's a great guy but I don't think that he or anyone makes that comparison with meaning. He doesn't do it. He's a drummer, looking to improve like all of us are. As a matter of fact, I love guys like him because there's no pretense about him. He's just out there, doing his thing, which no one else is doing. Nothing wrong with that.

Tim has come to know an approach towards the kick and he's looking to expand on it. It will help him down the road. At the same time, we can use what he's learned to OUR benefit, possibly. He's putting together a video and with his records, he'll probably sell a number of them and I think that's good for him AND maybe for me too. I actually am going to buy one because I am interested in everyone's approach to the drums, when I have seen them demonstrated and can conceive of how it might be useful for me.

Speed for speed's sake is barely thrilling for us. I agree. We all agree. ALL rudimentary applications serve little purpose, when they're empasized. However, when they're APPLIED, as in, say, using the segmented double (the RR from the RRLL or LL from the RRLL or vice-versa), introducing other groupings on notes, like the hands, for instance, they ARE VERY useful and can be VERY musical. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. All the power to the guys pushing out the threshold because they help us all.

There's nothing wrong with technique and the different approaches to it, SO LONG AS I CAN GET A LOOK AT IT. Look at what Virgil has done for the drums! He has applied ideas to the drums that people previously thought could not be done musically and he's proven that there really is a time and place FOR EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN. You know, at the risk of sounding overly-philosophical, it's true about different styles of drumming, as well as, not excluding different types of people and ideas.

Kirk, I know that you know what I'm talking about and I didn't get any 'attack' from you on anyone. You just expressed your view, which I share and I believe that if we saw anybody do anything in anyway that we thought could be useful in our endeavor, you'd give it a whilrl, as quickly as I would. You're just that kind of guy - open, like a book... like Virgil. ;)

[morgenthaler]

I have heard Jonbergs doubles, and I love them!
I ofcourse love Virgils doubles, - but the main thin is that it is VERY easy (for me) to seperate double from singles.
I think it's a big difference from singles.
I am still painstakingly working on my doubles.....

[kirk]

I dig where you are coming from Peter and I agree. Being open to elements that will make a real difference for the better in life in general is a GOOD thing. It is very true in music. It is funny to see
the ROAD that we travel down and the big changes that happen those that make an impact on us if we are open.

Kirk