how to build great ostinato, co-ordination and independence?

[swedendrummer]

has anyone got an idea how to practise that.....?

[swedendrummer]

please help me whith that.......

[peter]

Here's a broad reply to the question:

On practicing ANYTHING, NEVER focus entirely on SPEED. Instead, focus on CONTROL.

Speed will naturally come from emphasizing control but control will not come from emphasizing speed.

[alencore]

Terry Bozzio drum lesson videos about ositinatos are just awesome and i think well tought out for the aspiring drum soloist. check them out. My favorite ostinatos he plays are these swiss triplets on the feet and the ever so basic four beats or those Steve Gadd samba stuff he solos over.

I approach ostinatos and soloing over it by practicing the ostinato as much as i could to build enough stamina to maintain it then little by little adding in the fills on top until i could create one heck of improvise solo composition.

getting good quality independence and to solo over it as peter mentioned needs a good amount of self discovery either approach slow or moderate to gain enough control and ease of execution.

but if you listen how Steve Gadd's solos like this one I just dug up during a modern drummer festival around 1984, man! the guy simply grooves away and would just thrown in some groovy fills. haha, so much to those ostinatos, i thought.

The only ostinatos I could play around independently on the feets and I would suggest you try them if you haven't are...
1. Quater beats on the bass drum [the basic and still fun to play on top with]
2. Half-time shuffle left feet leading [inspired by Terry Bozzio}
3. RLR- in 16th beats grouping but second 16th note omitted and left feet hitting both hi-hat and bass pedal at once. I got this from Dennis Chambers but he was using triplets.
4. The good old samba beats.
5. Those cool 16th notes db tnx to Tommy Aldridge solos with Ozzy.

For the hands...
1. Just the three 16 notes grouping without the second 16th note played by the right hand on ride cymbal. It's the only ostinato I love to play for my right hand work-out.

The basic three way ostinato coordination like 2nd and 4th quarter beats on the hi-hat, 1st and 3rd beats on the bass drum, and that 16 note grouping mentioned above for the ride cymbal. Flatten out the sound of the ride cymbal or simply make it swing then you have the basic swinging beats going while the left hand do those fills or short buzzes ala Buddy Rich of some sorts.

So much stuff to learn on this realm of drumming and before i write a book for this, i might as well go out and jam or play counter-strike, hehe.

[marlos]

Hi take a look at my video "the ostinato" on www.edrums.gr for a few polyrhythmic examples ... Begins with a 4/4 multipedl ostinato , orchestrated on 4 pedals.. with free solo on top , then there is a 5/8 ostinato with a 3/8 pattern with the right hand , and soloing with the left and a 7/8 ostinato with a single hand roll on the right and a swing pattern on the left
Hope you enjoy this .. I am using the Duallist pedals

Cheers Panos

[percusski]

Panos, nice playing. I don't doubt you'll cop some flak for using the Duallist but I liked what I heard,nice ideas...I was wondering how you were triggering that many notes from the tambourine with one foot!

[marlos]

The Duallist pedal is the pedal taht allows me to play 16s or 32 notes , because for every one stroke , it produses a second ,.. I have attached a snare drum on one of my upcoming videos that is played with my left foot and I play a single stroke roll , and solo on top of it ! Check out the Duallist web site for more info on the mechanics of the pedal!

Panos, nice playing. I don't doubt you'll cop some flak for using the Duallist but I liked what I heard,nice ideas...I was wondering how you were triggering that many notes from the tambourine with one foot!

[alencore]

Terry Bozzio drum lesson videos about ositinatos are just awesome and i think well tought out for the aspiring drum soloist. check them out. My favorite ostinatos he plays are these swiss triplets on the feet and the ever so basic four beats or those Steve Gadd samba stuff he solos over.

I approach ostinatos and soloing over it by practicing the ostinato as much as i could to build enough stamina to maintain it then little by little adding in the fills on top until i could create one heck of improvise solo composition.

getting good quality independence and to solo over it as peter mentioned needs a good amount of self discovery either approach slow or moderate to gain enough control and ease of execution.

but if you listen how Steve Gadd's solos like this one I just dug up during a modern drummer festival around 1984, man! the guy simply grooves away and would just thrown in some groovy fills. haha, so much to those ostinatos, i thought.

The only ostinatos I could play around independently on the feets and I would suggest you try them if you haven't are...
1. Quater beats on the bass drum [the basic and still fun to play on top with]
2. Half-time shuffle left feet leading [inspired by Terry Bozzio}
3. RLR- in 16th beats grouping but second 16th note omitted and left feet hitting both hi-hat and bass pedal at once. I got this from Dennis Chambers but he was using triplets.
4. The good old samba beats.
5. Those cool 16th notes db tnx to Tommy Aldridge solos with Ozzy.

For the hands...
1. Just the three 16 notes grouping without the second 16th note played by the right hand on ride cymbal. It's the only ostinato I love to play for my right hand work-out.

The basic three way ostinato coordination like 2nd and 4th quarter beats on the hi-hat, 1st and 3rd beats on the bass drum, and that 16 note grouping mentioned above for the ride cymbal. Flatten out the sound of the ride cymbal or simply make it swing then you have the basic swinging beats going while the left hand do those fills or short buzzes ala Buddy Rich of some sorts.

So much stuff to learn on this realm of drumming and before i write a book for this, i might as well go out and jam or play counter-strike, hehe.

nope that's BS. LOL i qouting myself. but hell an old thread with me acting such a smart ass...HAHAHA! now let me read it again and may be i'll relearne something....oohhwiih!

[bdub]

Hi take a look at my video "the ostinato" on www.edrums.gr for a few polyrhythmic examples ... Begins with a 4/4 multipedl ostinato , orchestrated on 4 pedals.. with free solo on top , then there is a 5/8 ostinato with a 3/8 pattern with the right hand , and soloing with the left and a 7/8 ostinato with a single hand roll on the right and a swing pattern on the left
Hope you enjoy this .. I am using the Duallist pedals

Cheers Panos

Very nice playing!!!! Your feet are incredibly smooth when playing the fast double bass singles strokes.

Are you using the moeller stroke with your feet? I read on the Clinic page of your site that you talk about using the moeller stroke with your feet as well as your hands.

[bdub]

has anyone got an idea how to practise that.....?

You could check out a book I wrote on interdependence at www.bryanwest.com/books.htm (http://www.bryanwest.com/books.htm). I've had very good luck with using my methods for gaining interdependence with my students.

[johngregson]

"Speed is a byproduct of accuracy."

[sandstrom]

check out thomas langs creative control dvd and marco minnemans extreme interdependence book. practise as the guys say and your control will be great. remember to practise every exercise leading with whatever limb, in every kind of way the exercise can be done. when you do this kind of exercises you really save time by practising technique, endurance, timing and control at the same time.

[Ken Kaniff]

Hi take a look at my video "the ostinato" on www.edrums.gr for a few polyrhythmic examples.

Cheers Panos

Dude, that's awesome! I'm really impressed, it's totally beyond my abilities.

[alencore]

Hi take a look at my video "the ostinato" on www.edrums.gr for a few polyrhythmic examples ... Begins with a 4/4 multipedl ostinato , orchestrated on 4 pedals.. with free solo on top , then there is a 5/8 ostinato with a 3/8 pattern with the right hand , and soloing with the left and a 7/8 ostinato with a single hand roll on the right and a swing pattern on the left
Hope you enjoy this .. I am using the Duallist pedals

Cheers Panos

wow! gotta check this out. the nos. alone is just so intriguing.

[johnz]

Hi take a look at my video "the ostinato" on www.edrums.gr for a few polyrhythmic examples ... Begins with a 4/4 multipedl ostinato , orchestrated on 4 pedals.. with free solo on top , then there is a 5/8 ostinato with a 3/8 pattern with the right hand , and soloing with the left and a 7/8 ostinato with a single hand roll on the right and a swing pattern on the left
Hope you enjoy this .. I am using the Duallist pedals

Cheers Panos

Sounds nice and smooth. Great flow from drums to cymbals.

I have been working on techniques from Akira Jimbo and Horatio Hernandez for some time now. I know how difficult that playing style can be.

JohnZ

[alencore]

oh man MArlos kick ass!
even Bozzio himself will get impress on those vids, i think.

[marlos]

Hi! NEW videos on the loose !! visit http://www.edrums.gr/video.html
6 (yes six ) groupings played simultaneously !! plus a video with detailed analysis of the double stroke roll on the bass drum , hope you find these videos educational !

[alencore]

cool! will check them out for good. tnx MArlos!

[ataraxia]

well, i guess you could give pete zeldman a call like dennis does!

[GreenDrummer]

While studying grooving, and technique, I also study foot ostinatos and Melodic drumming. I take it pretty seriously actually. Here is what is set up for my left foot.

The best way I have found is practicing the foot Ostinato OVER and OVER again. Very slowly. Making sure each note is solid. Once comfterable with it. I will start playign single strokes with my hands, then double strokes, the paradiddles, then flams, then Triplets. Then after this I'll practice a few of my own hand patterns that im comfterable with. Once I have acheived this, I will find a hand pattern that I can move around the kit so it works with the ostinato. Making it flow.

If your trying to build some Ostinatos, Start practicing basics. Like Eighth notes switching back from your Bass and Hi hats. The foot pattern is R-L-R-L. Then practice Double strokes R-R-L-L. Then Ruffs R-L-L- Then paradiddles. Here is one I just became comfterable with today.
BD|o--o--o-|o--o--o-| -RF
HF|-oX-----|-ox-----| -LF
FT|----o-o-|--------| -LF
CB|--------|----ooo-| -LF

Give her a try :) Hope this helps.

[cjcdrums]

That's pretty cool GreenDrummer! Have any audio/video...?

[alencore]

yeah i see four pedals on his left.
may be he has eight legs LOL! kidding...

[GreenDrummer]

No videos yet. Im entering in the Modern drummer undiscovered contest. So soon i will have some sort of video. Hopefully I can getmy hands on even a crappy digi camcorder.

ps. if anyone wants to chat drums or ostinatos with me feel free to add me on aim or msn :)
aim- Greenbra17
msn- greenbra@gmail.com