To Peter

[Brobjer]

Hello Peter!

As you seem like the man with most knowledge about the different techniques, techniqual adjustments etc. I would like to ask you some questions.

I have worked a lot on hand technique. I feel that my right hand is very good techniqually on singles and doubles. I can play 16th's with only my right hand at 132 BPM's.I have developed a technique (using trad. grip) with my left hand based on only what feels good. I haven't tried to copy anybody else's technique, just simply developed speed naturally. I am not quite as fast in my left as in my right, and I am working on this. The movement I get is not using fingertechnique. I am moving my wrist in a fast direction towards myself. It seems pretty strange, huh! =) I am holding the stick fairly loose. It feels very good and natural for me. What do you think about it? Have you ever heard of such a technique, and if so, what is it called?
I have also pushed my doubles to the limit. I feel I have good technique in both hands (using both matched and trad.) and I manage one minute constant 16'ths smooth and clean at 270 BMP. This is 1080 beats/minute. This is using matched grip. Maybe 250 BPM using trad.
The singles are not quite that fast, although I am working on getting up towards 1100 beats/minute.

The advices you gave me on pedals were all great. As I said, I have the Eliminator strap, and after your suggestions, I have changed to the blue cams, with the PS all the way towards the pedal and the strap adjusted all the way down (the attachment next to the beaters).
I have heard a lot of great and less good critique ablut the Axis pedals.
Which one is actually the best?!:D
I know it is up to one another, but what does the statistics say? Which pedal has the smartest sollution?

Thanks man!

Andreas

[peter]

First, I'm just another drummer that
has played both trad and matched
and have played French and German
style. There are a lot of drummers out
there that have done the same.

I have studied and played with some
high profile drummers, however and
at least, there, I can share what I saw
with you and the other great guys here
at Virgil's site.

When I play traditional, I turn my wrist
very slightly, for the stroke.

It could be that you are using a variation
of the Art Verdi technique. I have seen
video of it. Perhaps that might interest
you. Go to this site:

www.artverdi.com

I think that's it.

Anyway, I don't use this technique. I
now play matched, almost always, un-
less I am going to back stick for show
OR play brushes.

Back to trad, the loose grip you're us-
ing sounds like it's very helpful to you
while you are on the snare or perhaps
another drum but how is it, when you
are moving from one drum to another?
Are you dropping sticks or finding that
your execution is suffering? This is an
important issue. Let me know.

As for pedals, you really have to try
them and see what feels good to you.
Again, I feel that the Axis-A pedal is '
the most superior designed pedal on
the market BUT the price is the tallest
and that's just not practical for every-
body, who's just plugging along.

That being said, you have to try them.
Some drummers don't like the action.
They say "It's too true or accurate."

With the VDL, on the Axis-A and try
the longboard, critical adjustments
can be made that help in determining
the best setting for you.

Now, I have a pair of Eliminators and
I feel that, for the money, these are
the best pedals on the market. The
cams try and duplicate what the VDL
is doing on the Axis. I tend to use
the blue and black cams the most.

:)

[Tool]

@Brobjer:

132BpM?
That´s damn fast man.....
Maybe you can videotape it and put in on the board.
I´d like to see that.
Is it possible for you???
Cheers

[Brobjer]

Yes I can manage 132 BMP with my right hand using matched. I am working on this with my left hand aswell, but it is very hard to practice. I guess it is a technique that has developed naturally through the years I have been playing.
I sort of lock the wrist and use only finger technique. I play with my middle and ringfinger.
I only use matched grip on my drumkit. I use traditional grip for rudiments and jazz playing. I am a drumkit player, so I have never really "worked" on getting perfect rudimental technique, but when I see guys like Mike Mangini and Virg, I naturally "have to" catch up with their technique :) It is really fun, but takes a lot of time. I work on single stroke technique every day for 2-3 hours.

I might be able to record it so you can see it. Although, I feel that it is a waste of time, when I can wait until both hands are the same techniqually. But if you'd like to see it, I think I can fix it.

/Andreas

[Tool]

Yes.......would be great.
Speeding it up I am also using fingecontrol technic but I am only doing about 105 bpm, both fingers right left combination.
It seems that I am stucking at that speed......I have to practice more on that, like you do a few hours only singlestokes.
When snare Iam mainly focussing on swiss military stuff that incorporates all rudiments.....triplets etc.....but the singlestrokes I have to spend more time on........

[Brobjer]

Yepp!
A cool alternative, which seem to increase good speed is the so-called Moeller technique. This means using traditional grip and using finger technique with your two first fingers. I can't remember the specific names for the fingers, but it is the first finger and then the second like this: FSFSFS etc. Get this into speed and then combine with right hand and you should have blistering speed. It is like the Art Verdi technique but using both finger instead of one.
I am working on this roght now.

Try it! :D

Andreas

[Brobjer]

Jesus! I am wrong! This technique isn't called Moeller technique at all =)
I donät know what it is called, but try it anyway! Hehe!

[Tool]

Thanks man, I will try...........
By the way....great drummer from Sweden and friend of mine Peter Wildoer is a masterdrummer, heard of him?

[timthedrummer]

brobjer...
how long can u play 16th's at 132bpm (single strokes) for??
that is very fast... if u could play that for one minute using both hands u would be playing nearly as fast as the world record holders... (you would be doing 1056 strokes)
the world record is 1152
cheers

[Brobjer]

Yes, I know Peter Wildoer. A great friend of his is a guitarist whom I work with. Magnus Olsson (www.magnusolsson.com)

I will play drums on Magnus' new solo album. Peter earlier played on Magnus' tracks, but I am now playing instead. We will record the drums in Peter's own studio.

I now measured my right hand to almost 16th's at 150 BPM. I haven't measured how long but maybe for 30 seconds. I am working on my left hand, and a really good muscle exersice I do is to "clap" your hands with only the fingers.
You put your hand in a normal clapping position. Then you use ONLY your finger strength and "clap" as you would usually do. Don't move your wrist, and you should make it sound, not just petting your palm.
You will feel a big strain in your lower arm and in the muscles on the outside, on top of, your elbow.
In a long run, this is a great exersice when you don't have any sticks available. I also feel that it is a great warmup exersice for speeding.
I can't really say that my left hand is any good right now, and I am working for 6-7 hours every day on just singles.
I am a non rudimental drummer, and usually only practice on real drums, but I have a 20 year old friend who is a HELL of a rudimental drummer. He came on 16th place in the Scottish Style World Championships. He can almost master 300 Bpm's singles (8th notes = 1200 a minute). He is a rudimental drummer, and not a drumset drummer. It is too bad these two different techniques are often two equal things.
Drumset drummers, however good they are, are often not good on rudiment techniques and vice verse with rudimental drummers.

This is amazing, and my goal to achieve around these speeds.

Andreas

[Xen-]

How old are you Andreas?

[Brobjer]

I am 16 years old.

[Brobjer]

Check my website, although I don't have any media files for the moment up. I will put them up, and the desgn is only a fast update.
I am half american, you see. My mother is from Moses Lake, WA.

www.andreasbrobjeronline.cjb.net

[Xen-]

Cool stuff! :D I'm a little discouraged though as I think I am far behind you technically and... two years older! :(

[Brobjer]

Yeah =) .. Well, you shouldn't think like that. Think of your own development and not how much "behind" you are someone else. It olny makes it worse =)
Just give your all and become better, and you will develop at your best! ;)

[Xen-]

My goal is to make a living out of drumming and music. People like you do give me a huge kick in the arse! ;)

As you're hanging around the forums, are you taking a break from practicing too? :D My legs are dead!

[Brobjer]

Good, that's my goal too! Nope, I'm practicing almost 6 hours every day.

[quitou]

Wow, Nice web site Brobjer....I can hardly wait to see some video clips or listen to some audio clips of your playing....you must be an amazing player!!!!

[Brobjer]

Thanks Quitou! Well, it sucks a little 'cause you have to scroll on the bio etc, because the text is made too wide. I am gonna fix that and I will put on some media aswell.

Timthedrummer - I measured my right hand today, and I got 40 seconds on my right hand at 16:ths 144BPM's. My left is much weaker and I am working all day on it :)

[Lucius]

Dude, your a freak! :eek: Though, you mentioned you do 6 hours, but you said you did 6 hours single strokes, you have some concentration man!! So do you have say every second or third day off to practice other stuff as well? And you mentioned the guitar prodigy that you played with is 14?! Man, im moving to sweeden! You guys are monsters! :D Tell the guitar player to keep it up from me, hes great! (i saw a video of him), cant wait to see you play Brobjer! :D

[timthedrummer]

yeh that's very impressive brobjer
i can play 16ths at about 130bpm with my right hand- and a little faster with my left- its weird how my left hand is faster. i havent really developed it as much as my right. its the same with my feet. i can play faster with my left. but i need to work on accents and endurance with my left limbs :D

[DavidPartay]

I can play 16ths at 100 with my right hand :D

and I can play 16ths at 80 with my left hand :p

I'm so fast!!! zooooooooooommmmm

[peter]

16th-notes at 100bpm for both
hands is a great goal, David.

You are almost there. :)

[Lucius]

Almost where? ;)

[Tool]

@Brobjer:

I actually met Peter at his gig yesterday and we went for some dinner and drumming backstage after that, twas great fun and great to see him again. He´s a fantastic drummer/person!

[DavidPartay]

I can do maybe a bar of 16th notes at about 200.

Tested my tense double strokes on the bassdrum today - 16ths at 160!! My controlled ones are kinda bad though :confused:

Getting a Pearl Eliminator hopefully next Saturday!!!!!!!!!!

I've started working on doing single strokes for about 5 minutes at a time, moving around the kit and stuff. Same with double strokes, and doing the same with the bassdrum.

[peter]

To his next goal of 100bpm (16ths), of course.
I think this is a great spead for any drummer,
if it's comfortable. You will build up from there.
It's a great plateau to work up from.

Don't be hard on yourself. 160bpm is also a
great level to work up to. After that you, will
be at 170 and 180bpm in not too long a time.

Practice your controlled doubles, not just
within the double-stroke roll for the kick but
when intro-ing any fill, just like Virgil. The more
you do this, the better they will get and it
won't be by forcing the roll on the music, if
you know what I mean. Do it with the left.
Do it with the right. Do it!

Your Eliminators are coming and you will be
happy, I'm sure. I can talk about these and
the Axis pedals 'til the cows come home, so
let me know if there is any way that I can
help you. You are kicking up the dust! :)

[Brobjer]

Hello!
Yup, I'm working strictly on singles now, and around 6 hours every day goes to practicing. I have a lot of different practicing periods, and now I am working mostly on practicing hand technique on a pad. It is much more comfortable than practicing it on a kit, because I think it is very limited on just a pad, and this makes you not playing a bunch of other stuff, but only hand technique.
One thing I had in mind, when I started practicing this a few weeks ago, was on working with my left hand, playing matched grip. Yesterday, I took a break from matched and practiced traditional grip ( german style ), and I felt that I was much more fast with trad. grip. I could play maybe 120-130 BPM's (16th's), with trad. using only left hand.
It is in longer strokes that I can't play over 240-250 BPM's ( 8th's ), but in shorter ( maybe 10 second runs ), I can play maybe 270 BPM's.

Yeah, Johan is awesome! Are you sure that you saw a video of Johan, and not Magnus Olsson? The first thing you notice is that he is very young, and you seem like you thought he was older.
I can fix more videos of him if you'd like.

Good to hear that you want to hear my material. I will notice you as soon everything is done! ;)

Cheers dudes! /Brobjer

[peter]

Flams will really help your singles.
Do them consecutively, on both sides.

Rl, Rl, Rl, Rl, Lr, Lr, Lr, Lr etc.

Virgil likes these too.

[Brobjer]

okay, thx Peter, I will tr4y the flams! :)

[Lucius]

Brobjer, maybe it was Magnus! How many guitar freaks do you know?! Well, tell them both to keep it up then! :D Id love to see Johan play, i look forward to the videos!

[Brobjer]

Okay, Magnus is a pretty big blonde guy, and he sits down in the video and it is a videotaped clinic he did for Ibanez.
Well, I know Johan Randén and Magnus Olsson. I am playing in a progressive metal band called Time Catcher and we have a great guitarist aswell. His name is Mattias Moberg. You can hear him when the CD gets released.
Johan is a great friend with Mattias "IA" Eklundh in Freak Kitchen, so I have met IA a few times too, but I don't know him very well. I know more drummers than guitarists.

Andreas

[Drumblast]

I see everyone working on their rights and then their lefts. I was hanging with Art Verdi, and what he does is play both hands together as double stop closed flams.
By practicing this way, you do twice as much in the same time. And when you only hear one hit at a time with no flamming, you know that your hands are even.

[peter]

Working the hands consecutively
will produce results, with or with-
out flams in my book. I prefer the
flams, both ways but again, you
will still get the results.

At the same time, I have found
leading with my left-hand has
done more for it than any rudim-
entary work I have done in the
past. I'm serious.

I was just noticing tonight just
how far it has come in the last
two years. I'm amazed.