Techniques, pedal-adjustments, inspirations etc.

[Brobjer]

Hello everyone,

I have played drums for a long time now, and feel tha I am keeping up with a lot of things Virgil is doing. I am comfortable with my hand technique (I use both traditional and matched grip) and my singe foot pedal technique is okay.

The thing is that I have never really given my all to get good doublepedal technique and have never used it a lot. (Compare Weckl-style to Virgil-style, and you understand the foot-thing).
I discovered Virgil probably two years ago, and what I think inspires so many drummers is that he mixes the "speed-shredder monster" and "slick groovy" techniques together.
Before, these two types pf drummers we're two different things and when you looked at one another, you felt like the slick drummer missed the good technique, and the speed drummer ONLY had monsterfeet, but no exellent handtehnique. THAT is what Virgil has inspired me with. He is the first drummer who does this in a really good way.

A while ago, I started practicing only foots for three hours a day, and not playing anything else but just different patterns together with a click and increasing speed and control. I feel I have developed really fast in a short while. Even after my first three-hour-practise, I noticed a huge difference and started developing a technique where you use the bounce of the pedals, more than your leg power (I can now play good singles in 230 BPM).
You get a much more smooth feeling and loose tence in your legs. I also started practising doubles, which kills your left foot in the beginning.
Now, when I have made my "basic" technique to work further on, I have noticed a Big problem with my pedal.
I use exactly the same pedal as Virg himself does. The Eliminator Strap (although with the red cams). I feel that the "slave-unit" has much more "resistance" than the roght pedal. I never seem to adjust the smooth bounce the same way that the right pedal has.

Is this because of the link in between them, which has to get a bigger movement and power, or can this be adjusted in any smart way?
I have tried every position of the beater/spring/the powershifter function/cams/pedal hight etc. and have adjusted the best way for me, but I am still not satisfied.

Explanation: If you press down the pedals the same time, the left pedal "dies" much faster, while the right smoothly carries on bouncing. This is what I am seeking for. The exact same presence in both right and left.
Can anyone help me?

Another thing I want, is to get some suggestions on is inspiration.
I have noticed I have got a lack of inspiration when I practise. I don't have the same "addiction" as I used to have 2-3 years ago when I was 13 years old.
Of course, Virgil is probably my biggest inspiration among today's players, but that is not the thing.
It is the "longing" for the drums, and the enjoyment I used to feel when I played before. Every now and then, I get a "kick in the butt" and inspiration to play (example, when starting with serious doublepedal).
Most of the time, I feel like stopping playing after maybe an hour of practicing.
People I play with etc., say I have already developed such technique that it is hard to get that "longing for development feeling" again, but as a drummer, I always want to develop myself further. And when seeing drummers like Virgil, who has some different foot techniques from what I use, I just want to get the same stability. BUT I don't feel the longing and enjoying feeling.
In a long perpective, I feel that I am going to lose a lot of practise time because of this, and I hope to get some good suggestions by any of you other great drummers!

Thank you!

Best regards, Andreas from Sweden

[kirk]

Great post Andreas welcome to the board and Great perspective
and point about Virg being the best of both World's RIGHT ON! there. Sounds like you have worked hard and have made great progress good luck in the future and keep drumming hard.

Regards Kirk

[Xen-]

230 BPM singles on bass drum at 16 years old? Oh my GOD! I don't think that Tony Royster can even pull that off!

[Lucius]

far out!! you certainly spent a lot of time woodshedding! is there any chance we would be able to hear or see you play?

[peter]

Inspiration? Well, I suggest getting
out to see Virgil, however you can.
If not, see other great drummers.

As for your problem with the twin-
pedal, I am not the right person to
talk to, since I use two separate
Eliminators.

Twins have to be really tested be-
fore purchasing. The apparatus is
imbalanced by design, unfortunately
but I have worked with pedals a-
lot and I suggest not giving up.

Understand that the red cam is
going to give you the LEAST power
and subsequently, the least rebound.
Perk up to Blue or even White and
adjust the spring tension on the
left pedal, making it a little less
loose but start with the cam.

I know. I like the Red cam too but
I use the Blue and White more.

Good luck.

Remember that your growth is
not going to be a steady climb.
You go up and then level off and
then you go up again etc.

Be patient.

[timthedrummer]

andreas are u playing 16th notes at 230bpm?? i remember getting a bit confused with bpm's when i was younger.
technically that means ur playing 920 hits in a minute and that is pretty damn fast. just wondering cuz it takes alot of time to develop that kind of speed

[Brobjer]

Hello,

Yes, I can manage good singles at 230 BPM with the right pedaladjustment. Although, if I warm up for a long time with my Eliminator (which has a bad adjustment), I can manage good and fast singles probably around 230 BPM's at my best.
If I understand Peter right, it is not always the best to have the same adjustment on the right and the left pedals. This must be because of the different techniqual ability between the feet. Although, I like the right pedal adjustment better than my left, and it fits my left foot too, but I seem to never get the same smooth feeling on the left. Can this be fixed by changing the springs, or do I have to change pedal completly?

I know that I can make two Eliminator singles by my double and maybe get better pedal action by that, but then I have to get another bassdrum. This is maybe the best way?
The thing is that I HAVE played on doublepedal-Eliminators that are perfectly balanced, and maybe I should contact their owners and adjust mine exactly like theirs?

To Lucius:
I play with a Swedish guitarist named Magnus Olsson (www.magnusolsson.com) and will play on his solo CD released fairly soon on Liquid Note Records in England. This will be pure fusion/guitarmusic with pretty cool drums. I also recently recorded a CD with a prog/metal band called Time Catcher. This CD will be released in Europe and maybe Japan next year. The drumming on this CD is more standard mainstream prog playing. Our songs are much more commersial than the Magnus Olsson thing, so it would be unsmart to advance the drums more there.
I also play with Swedish considered "young guitar genious" Johan Randén aswell in a prog/fusion project.
Important: NOT his solo project (the Johan Randén Band).
Check out Johan in the next issue of Young Guitar. He will have a little video demonstration in the following Magazine CD, aswell as a big article. Our music is more advanced, and I guess that you could more compare it mopre to the OTV style.
I also play in a coverband in Sweden called Epic and a softprog band in town. Although, these two band have no CD to release but I could throw up some clips on my website when it's updated and done.
I used to have a little two-minute drum solo on my earlier website, but this is a two year old recording, so I removed it for a new one soon.
So Lucius, visit my website often and I will get you some info on how to get to hear my drumming.

Drum On!
Andreas

[Lucius]

Thanks man, will do! :D

[peter]

Just to be clear on this, it's not
that I prefer different adjustments
from right to left. I was thinking
about your situation.

Try this:

First, remove the left pedal from
the attachment and set it visually
and tactilely (touch and feel).

Play it on your RIGHT foot and
match it to your right pedal and
start from there, with your ob-
servations etc.

Then replace the attachment,
noting the differences and mak-
ing subsequent adjustments.

Good luck.

:)

[Brobjer]

Great point Peter, although I can't understand how I could try the adjustment with the pedal unattached. Becuse then I would have to set up the pedals as two singles. This is possible, but hard to manage.
Or is this even what you ment? :)

Smart method there, by playing w/ your right foot and getting the pedals the same. Haven't tried that.
It is just the attachment-thing I didn't quite grasp.

/Andreas

[peter]

I'm just trying to offer suggestions
for experimentation. I really work
a lot on the pedals and have come
to a level of understanding about
the Eliminators that has helped me.

The cams are important too, IF you
are focusing on doubles and realize
that you need to work with the re-
bound of the stroke.

The red cam delivers the best resp-
onse. It's true BUT it sacrifices the
power for it. You can tell that this is
true at the highest speeds - 240bpm
plus. This is an important observation
because it tells us that we need a
larger cam (circumference), produc-
ing a greater, more powerful stroke
for that needed rebound.

I was just at the pedals, having
been blue for a while. I went down
to red and had my fun but when I
tried to go up to 220 plus, the
beaters were barely coming off
the surface for the second stroke.
I jumped to black, not having used
it for a long time and there it was!

After you get the settings of the
pedal right, experiment with the
cams and see what you find.

One more thing. Set you Power
Shifter all the way IN, TOWARDS
the kick. This will give you the best
rebound (due to the angle) what-
ever cam you use.

Remember that the Twin pedal
is just two pedals attached. It's
that attachment that I am asking
you to remove, in order to set the
adjustments equally for the pedals.
You want to start at the beginning
or ground zero.

We'll build up from here.

By all means, if others can help, lend
a hand because it's an important
issue for everyone using the Pearl
Eliminators.

:)

[Brobjer]

Thanks Peter! I think I get it now =) The PowerShifter is the only thing I haven't really experimented on much. I now have them all the way FROM the kit, and will now change TOWARDS it.
When I tried it last time, I thought it made a huge difference, but I didn't have any time for such a drastic change because of a lot of gigging with bands. Infact it's like changing the pedal, just pushing the PowerShifter one step.

Thanks for the good suggestions Peter, and I will now start really experimenting with it! =)

Drum On Dudes!

Andreas

[peter]

I hope it goes well for you, Andreas.

I know how tough it is to get these
pieces of equipment to perform but
with an understanding of how they
work, we can get a leg up! :)

www.thediametrixletter.com/EliminatorInfo.jpg

Check it out.

The response of the red cam is way
down on the chart, while the black
is the highest. The blue is but one
step up. You may want to try that
one but also give the black another
chance. You need power. The Pow-
er Shifter will help make up for the
lost response.

[timthedrummer]

andreas u said to visit ur website but wats the address??

[Brobjer]

Right now it is down.. Well it has just a picture of me that says Under Construction. I will update it soon, aswell as throw up some teasers of my recordings.
The address is www.andreasbrobjeronline.cjb.net

Tim, add me on either ICQ or MSN and I could maybe find something to send you.

Andreas

[Brobjer]

Peter, could it be any idea to have different cams on r/l?

Andreas

[peter]

Andreas,

If you feel comfortable that the
pedals are equally adjusted and
tensioned and you also feel that
your left foot will respond to this
kind of adjustment, I can't see
how it would hurt but I would
prefer having the balance in the
equipment and imbalance in the
use of the rudimentary pattern.

In other words, if I am using a
routine like this:

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops14.mp3

...concerned about my left foot
being weaker, I would just do
MORE doubles on the left, during
my practive runs and in tunes. As
it is, the left foot's double are go-
ing to sound more "hip" anyway,
being on the off-beat. Do you
know what I mean?

Down the road, you will be able
to invert etc. but you have to be
able to start somewhere and I
will be the first to admit this is
all new ground for me too, hav-
ing only started doubling a few
months ago.

[Ned Rankin]

Peter, just registered and saw your posting. The issue you are talking about with the slave pedal is most likely the connector shaft. If you hold the left beater with one hand and then try to move the cam on the left (slave) pedal with the other hand you will notice (if it does) move or have a lot of play. Try this with the right pedal and you will notice no play at all! I use an Iron Cobra double pedal, but I use the Axis shaft to connet the slave pedal. This shaft uses ball-bearings (bad spelling). Most pedal suppliers use pins in the shaft (but I have never used the pedal you are referring to) which creates a lot of play. Think of it like your drive-shaft on a car. If you had any play in the shaft it would clunk and would not be smooth. Not sure if this really is your issue or what you were asking, but thought I would share. Good luck.

[peter]

Actually, it wasn't my issue as
I do not use the double-pedals
but Andreas'. I use two individ-
ual pedals, though one day, I
will have to deal with the kit.

Thanks, though, on his behalf.
Perhaps he'll write in again and
tell us how he's moved along on
this situation.

So, you use the Axis shaft. That
is interesting. It has no play(?).
That could be a huge factor, I
would think. Please keep us up
on your thoughts and observat-
ions. It's all very helpful.

:)

[peter]

One of the things you can
do with the Eliminators and
that I'm experimenting with,
right now, is adjusting the
beater distance, ALONG WITH
the change in color cam.

Blue and Red Cams imply a
greater beater distance and
Black and White imply less
distance. :)

[Tommy G.]

Hey Guys!
Ned is right on target with the Axis driveshaft. I used to use it with my Eliminators and it makes a HUGE difference. But then I got wise and finally got the Axis A Longboards and went to 2 bass drums instead. No muss no fuss. Identical left and right feel and a lot less to worry about and distract you from your playing.

Tom G.

[peter]

Tom,

It sounds like you are very happy
with your Longboards. I am very
happy about that and hope that
I was some kind of help to you in
the process.

Tell me, what are you going to do
with your old Eliminators? Are you
willing to sell them? I have buyers
that I think would be interested.
Let me know, would you?

You're the man! :)