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View Full Version : King Crimson: A band that's used or produced some great drummers!


blackzoner
08-24-2005, 09:18 PM
Here is a band i've listened to even since discovering their 1st SEMINAL recording the yr it was released,(1969) which was, "In the Court of The Crimson King"!! That particular recording actually began the "Progressive music" we now enjoy today, & band's like Virgil's own "PLANET X" & "OTV" & others follow today, only they change to be even more progressive!

** NOTE** WARNING-THIS IS A VERY LONG POST** WARNING**

Btw, while I cover the drummers of King Crimson, you'll I think(?) find this more of a History(albeit MY abridged version of the band)of King Crimson. Just thought you should know before proceding.

However, no band can ever claim to have begun this mucial change, & even KC say they either 'unknowingly' or 'unwitingly' began this movement, but don't claim that they are solely responsible for "prog music". That 'they' were just 'trying' to blend their fave music styles, Jazz, hard rock,& orchestral music! Remember "Fusion" music hadn't even begun yet!

It wasn't until like 71 or maybe 73 & Billy Cobham's incredible 1st solo album "Spectrum" had been released & that term was started. Btw, 1 song on that beginning to end great album, called "Stratus" begins so fast with a florish by Cobham on the toms, & bass drums before the guitar & synth(By Tommy Bolin & Jan Hammer respectibly)begin at a lightening pace! Virgil does this song w/"OTV" which I have a bootleg video of that is a great looking & sounding dvd-r. Virgil also does the song when he on drums for 1 of the "Buney Brunel" bands I have on a few great boots too.

The 'fusion' thing had begun w/The Tony Williams band "Lifetime" & it's release of it's 1st recording w/John MacLaughlin on seering guitar! But the 'press' or whomever hadn't yet given this new music a name. It was electric Jazz & electric R&R that was blended into "fusion" music!! So the term is said to have begun m/Cobham's release of "Spectrum".

In fact, King Crimson's band's leader(even tho he claims he's NOT, sure Bob!)Robert Fripp has been the only original member who's remained w/the band over it's 36 year odyssey(!)said that 'his band' KC did not lay claim to inventing "progressive music" but they did. Back to the band's ever, constantly relvolving door of musician's:

KC was 1 of my fave bands, for over 25 years!! They just stopped being one my faves over the past 3-4 yrs & I was 'on the fence' regarding them & they're place amoung my fave band's a few yrs before that, but I saw them again in 2001 & while I didn't like EVERYTHING they had recorded lately. The sounded SO GREAT that nite, that even the songs I didn't like on the cd's I liked live! I guess I was spoiled b/c on the 1st 4 albums I LOVED EVERY CUT! Which is saying ALOT when ANY BAND can record 4 albums(back then an album would clock in at around 35-40 mins top's for a single LP!)& you love every single cut on the album!! Later I also liked MANY of their cd's start to end! Like "Lark's Tounge..." That album from 71 is the 1st 1 Bruford was on & is just brilliant!! Jamie Muir their short term percussionist, had ALOT to do w/the success of that lp!!

They followed that up w/the equally great "In The Wake of Posidon", & then "Cirkus" & "Islands" & having already changed the band members to get different sounds 2 times over the course of the last 2 albums, the band was overhauled again & this line-up remained until 1971'. Bruford & percussionist extraordinaire, Jamie Muir(who very unfortunately was a bit of a 'lunatic' & left to go to a Monastery after only 1 album(but 1 of the best!)& 1 tour! I believe he now plays percussion again for a living? (More on Muir in a second) & the equally impressive vocalist & virtuoso bass player, John Wetton, & violinist David Cross.

Jamie Muir was a wildman on & offstage. Usually Fripp wouldn't tolerate any crazies(Muir didn't use drugs)but b/c Muir was SO talented, he allowed Jamie to be Jamie. If you buy any of the cd's or stuff that has photo's of Muir you can see him doing this. He used a very odd(esp for 1971!)array of things to bash, stick, mallet, throw on the stage or studio floor, whatever to get the desired sound! Anything! This meant he used heavy to lighter chains w/diff things attched at the ends of them, that created odd but great sounds. During more than 1 ocassion whislt Jamie was going beserk on stage, was swinging 1 of his heavy chains when he somehow let loose of it & in Fripp's word's,"The chain went flying past my head and only missed by an inch or so, as it made a buzzing sound the closer it got, I had no time to react!" Knowing of Jamie's & most other band member's growing dislike of Fripp's weird behaviour, I wouldn't doubt if Muir did it on purpose!!

Fripp is so reserved, he's always been almost a recluse while onstage. In fact I noticed every time I saw the band live(5 or 6 times)Fripp moved from almost a normal position(he's ALWAYS sat & played on a wooden stool)on stage, to moving further & further back! The last time I 'kind of saw him' was in 2001 & altho my friends & I were center stage, & Fripp was almost totally obstructed(on purpose)hiding as best he could on his stoll behind the stage curtain & a bank of monitors!! He's odd to say the least. He once stopped a concert after the audience was told, & signs were in the entrance way's, "No Smoking No flash or other photography. ALL CAMERA'S WILL BE CONFISCATED!" Well, some arse got a camera in, took a photo w/a flash & Bob got up, said into the mic, sth like, "You were warned. You cannot behave civilized, so we're leaving, and will NOT be coming back!" That was that. End of a $20 dollar concert. he's gotten worse over the past 23 years.

For anyone who's NEVER heard a King Crimson album before, EVER, i'd suggest
you 1st, MUST get the 1st "IN the Court...", but then even tho all those other
4 albums are great from opening to close, i'd suggest you get "Lark's Tounge In Aspic", b/c 1st of all you simply WON'T believe it was recorded 34 yrs ago! It sounds brand new!! Contemporary!! It's just a roundbreaking, groundshaking album!! Then you can get "In the Wake of Posiden" or whatever else you choose as long as it's from the 1st 25 years of KC's exsistence!!

Btw.There are 2 poor live 'offical' but bootleg quality recordings of KC 'live' from the period Muir was w/the band, & even tho the quality sucks, you can plainly hear Muir contributions in the music. Just either go to www.dgm.com & if that addy isn't current, do a "Google" on either Discipline Global Mobile or King Crimson recordings & once you see the initals "DGM" you're in the right spot to find every recording ever done by this band. Either the superb sounding studio cd's that were significantly improved using today's technology & b/c the were alble to find EVERY analog master tape of the oldest material, these sound insanely great when I play the mint condition LP's next to the cd's of today!

Many KC fanatic's say that Fripp is just trying to "make money by continuing to release, then do a newer release of material on cd", but I own several of what were called in 1989 "The Definitive Editions" of their older material, & then in 2001 the exact same material that was on, "The Essential King Crimson-FRame By Frame" is also on 2001's "The 21st Century Guide To King Crimson" & I can tell you that after playing each cut, 1 after another, or side by side & pausing 1 or the other on my 2 cd's player's(of equal fidelity, thru the same speakers)what Fripp said in 89 & 91 is true. He said in 89: "In re-mastering the music here, we used the best equipment available both digital & the highest quality analog equipment. Given time & budget(The catalog was owned in it's entirity by "EG" KC's management. Now "DGM" & Fripp owns it all)it was the best we could do." From 2001: "The aim of the "21st Century Guide..." is to replace the "Frame By Frame" 4-cd compilation, taking advantage of 10 years worth of technological advances 10 years of additional "live" & studio Crimsoning, & 12 years of archiving live material. So IF you can buy the 2001 stuff!

Oh also, there are a few dvd's of the band, but i'd suggest you go w/"Deja VROOOM", as it's from 1999 & has more special up to date camera work, & features, the "Double Trio" of Fripp/Adrian Belew(who was on FZ's great "Baby Snakes" dvd too!)guitars-Bill Bruford("Yes" the early & BEST Yes albums in my opinion-his own band "Earthwork's)& Pat Masetloto they both use acoustic & electronic drums)Tony Levin(Tony's appeared on more recorded work than ANY other bass player I do believe! He's on all or nearly all of Paul Simon's stuff-GEnesis-"Black Light Syndrome" both cd's w/Bozzio drums & the great Steve Stevens guitar-"Liquid Tension Experiment" both cd's w/Dream Theatre drummer Mike Portnoy & other great players. he's on everything!)& Trey Gunn on either bass or Chapman stick, they switch)

Plus "Deja VROOOM" has many special features like the 1 where you can put different musicians from diff era's on songs like "21st Century Scgizoid Man" more. PLus it has other cool features.

However, the 1 dvd pkg of(these are both on this 1 dvd)but KC did vhs vid's called "The Noise 1982's performance in France, Frejus & Japan 1984's "3 of a Perfect Pair"

Then the band changed again for the completely diff album "RED"(1974) where they invited a couple of the original members back,Ian McDonald(Piano-saxes-Mellotron, ect) & Mel Collins(Sax-Flute-synth-Melltron) & "RED" became the turning point where KC would become a very HEAVY band!

While that line up recorded a few albums it would again change & w/o Wetton it moved on to Tony Levin bass & Chapman stick, & Fripp & Bruford joined by ex-FZ guitarist Adrian Belew, & a few years later KC became a double Trio, having 2 musicians on ea instument, so Bruford & Pat Mastelotto on drums, & electronic drums(both played acoustic & electronic), Fripp/Belew guitars w/Belew doing the lead vocals, & Tony Levin & Trey Gunn on bass.(Gunn plays the stick basses, but they switch on & off playing reg bass) & this line-up began in 1994/95 thru the present.

So I think that the contribution of drummer's Michael Giles on the 1st two studio albums & also on the 1 "live" disc from 69 & KC's tour of the U.S. is undeiably great! His little cymbal rolls, his great tom fills, & overall great drumming on the 1st 2 studio albums is just great!

I'm sure everyone on this site knows of Bruford's work w/Yes, but if you've somehow never heard any KC albums he's on(Remember, he left a highly successful band in "Yes" & he KNEW they were about to become even bigger!
He still left to become part of KC so that should tell you sth about the band.
His drumming on any of the many albums he did w/KC(he was w/them longer than anyone but Fripp who's been there from 69 to now!)71 thru 2001or 02!!

Ian Wallace was the drummer for the band for 2 tours & a # of albums. If anyone likes the older material of KC there is now a band(well there has been for a 2-3 yr period now)called "The 21st Century Schizoid Band" that b/c Fripp refuses to do anything older than the great song "RED" from the album by the same name(done in 1974)& altho I didn't attend the KC concert the last time they were here,(I started losing interest in them by then, & this was the ONLY KC concert here I ever missed!)I was told that Fripp refised to do "Red" & had changed it to sth from the "3 of a Perfect Pair" album. Also, the song Red & the song from that last lp I mentioned, ARE the ONLY older material he'd do live! So the "21st CenScihizoid Band is made up of only ex musicians that used to be in KC & a few were quite important to that band, & they play ONLY the older KC music that everyone who loves KC wants to hear, that & a few new origs too. Just go to www.21stcenturyschizoidband.com

These ex-members are: Ian McDonald: Alto sax-flute-Keys-grand paino-vocals & perc. Mel Collins: Barritone-Tenor & Alto Saxes-flute-keys & backing vocals. Peter Giles bass & backing vocals. Michael Giles: Percussion drums & vocal & the ONLY non ex member of King Crimson is the incredibly talented Jakko Jakszyk who is a great guitarist!(He'd have to be to try & duplicate the various stages of Robert Fripp's genius guitar playing style & INCREDIBLE VOCALIST being able to copy the many vocalists that KC employed over the years!!

Plus Fripp began this instructional group for guitar players & people wanting to begin learning the guitar, called "Guitar Craft". These sessions are held all over the U.S. & other countries. Fripp insists that the people that join, get together w/him & members of the great "California Guitar Trio"(If you've never heard of them, it's a various # of guitarists only that perform live concerts & have recorded too, but these geetar players play intricate guitar peices at they're concerts, plus do "surf music" too only i've NEVER heard the songs played like this before! Just google either Guitar Craft or The California Guitar Trio to learn more.Altho it's called a trio, there are more than 3 guitarists in it now!

They have a dvd(Nov 6, 2002 Japan)& 3 live cd's. Check website for dates.

My friend Paul Baker who lives in Watford England not but 15-20 miles from London & is 42 has an older brother, Chris, closer to my age(I'm 53)he is maybe about 2-4 yrs younger than me & he grew up about 1 block away from Mike Giles the drummer for KC & 21st Band too, & they became friends. Chris also had Jakko his exact own age live across the street & they played together as youngsters & hung out later & remained friends.

So my friend Paul was asked when he was about 16 to help his brother Chris & Jakko to help load equipment from the practice facility, to a truck & he told mwe when here he often had to load 1 of those heavy arse "Melltron's", which I told him roughly weight about the same as a HEAVY ARSE, "Hammond B-3" Organ, like the ones Keith Emerson used to use 2 or 3, sometimes 4 of during an "ELP" concert!! I know b/c i've been in 3 diff bands where the keybrdist used a B-3 in his set-up!!

Btw. IF you decide to buy any of the "21st Century Schizoid Band" cd's or dvd, you'll notice on ea one, under who the musicians would like to Thank, that under Jakko's, it always has Chris Baker.

This is b/c they were/are friends, but it was Chris who 1st took "King Crimson's 1st album, "In The Court...." over to Jakko's house & played it for him! And Jakko then bought 2 guitars(1 electric & 1 acosutic)& he began to play guitar b/c of Chris bringing that album over & Jakko hearing Fripp! Cool hey? Of course Jakko took lessons, but turned out to be a natural! He has a couple of solo albums on but you'd have to do a search to find out what label they are on?

B/c of this, Paul my friend the younger bro, was taken to his very 1st concert by Jakko & brother Chris & believe it or not it was to see "GENTLE GIANT"!! Anyway, before I go into "GG" i'll tell you that it was b/c of Paul that I was able to get my HERO's autographs on their 1st cd(The Schizoid Band)as these guys(all but 1 were on the 1st 2 KC albums!! Btw, Mike Giles the guy who formed "The Schizoid Band & was it's drummer, quit 1 day after the interviews all the members give on the 2002 dvd! So the great Ian Wallace is now their drummer, & is on their latest live cd from Japan too.

The incredible 5 man progressive unit that began playing together under that name in 1970!! & was led by the 3 fabulous Schulman Brothers, whom all could play multiple instruments! Only 1 brother(Phil I think)was only in "GG" for 2 years & 2-3 albums. The others remained & "GG" were a great band from 1970 thru 1986.

They just released their only dvd called, "Giant on the Box" which Paul gave me(along w/alot more gifts)when he visited the U.S. in July for 16-17 days to see a lady, & he was gracious enuff to come & stay at a Downtown hotel for the 5 nites & 4 days he visited me in STL.

Paul is a drummer at heart(IMO)& altho he plays guitar, & he got to play on the finest drumkit he ever saw, my $13,000 "Smith Custom Drums" 9pc kit!! He had a blast, & IF I can get this old pc(from 98)to cooperate, i'll post some of the pic's I took of him on it.

It's the ONLY kind of kit in the world like this & will NEVER be duplicated by "Smith"!!

Thats what the owner Joe Murawski told me. I WON this kit & was able to choose; the sizes,(I chose weird, very strange sizes, 1 Eg: is the 6.5" deep by 10" diameter, ride tom! Another is the 16"x 11" deep floor tom!)type of wood, I chose special Maple, bearing edge degree cut on the drums,(I chose diff cuts for the toms than I did the 3 snare drums I wanted!)& I got to chose, type of finish or wrap!

Plus I asked for a RIMS style mount, even tho Smith has they're own style mounts which I like better; for the 4.5" deep X 10" diameter soprano snare drum, I wanted 1 for it so I could either put it on a stand or use the mount & mount it on my rack! I have 5 toms(2 floor)an 18x22 inch bass drum, & the soprano snare I mentioned plus a 12 x 4/5" picolo snare, & the main snare, a 14x5 inch incredible sounding snare drum! It reminds me alot of the old "Radio KIng's" or other vintage snares.

I won these beauties in a "Modern Drummer" contest, & I have been subscribing to "MD" for 10 years, & I ONLY enter specific contests & have won twice in 4 years! So for those of you that live in the U.S. I say send in those postcards.

I realize this has been more a history on King Crimson than it was about the magnificent drummer, but believe me, any cd you choose by KC you'll hear some great drumming.

Thanks, BZ'er

cjcdrums
08-25-2005, 12:59 PM
Hmm... I haven't heard much KC, but I've been meaning to check them out (along with 150 other bands!)

Post some pics of that kit if you have them, BZ'er (king of the long posts :p)!

C.J.
08-25-2005, 01:21 PM
Same case as Cjc over here (minus the other 150 bands). I think I've only got one song of them, but never really listened to it.

Blackzoner, that is one hell of a post you got there, are your eyes and fingers still alive?

alencore
08-26-2005, 03:23 AM
(be serious alen) great long post indeed. i'll read it while i ...oops hehe no joke there.

alencore
08-26-2005, 03:29 AM
i think some years back i saw a KC mp3 cd-rom on some bargain bin. i think it has all or most of the best albums of KC there. unfortunately i didn't took it but took DT and Rush mp3's instead, well, we learned.

grandpascorpion
08-26-2005, 05:56 AM
Great post blackzoner. It's terrific to see someone enthuse about them. True innovators!

You could argue Soft Machine invented prog rock. They came a couple of years earlier. KC"s first album was definitely classified as prog rock back then. I'd call Spectrum fusion.

Just an FYI, Jamie Muir came out of the free improv scene in England with folks like Derek Bailey, Evan Parker and Tony Oxley (a phenomenal drummer to witness) and he still performs in the avant-garde circles.

SyncopatedChaos
08-30-2005, 08:56 PM
king crimson are definetly amazing cool post

Tracie
11-22-2005, 05:26 PM
I am lucky enough to know the crimson camp.. Pat is superb! also check ou this druming with the california guitar trio/ with Tony Levin on bass... You won't be dissapointed... xo's miss TracieHere is a band i've listened to even since discovering their 1st SEMINAL recording the yr it was released,(1969) which was, "In the Court of The Crimson King"!! That particular recording actually began the "Progressive music" we now enjoy today, & band's like Virgil's own "PLANET X" & "OTV" & others follow today, only they change to be even more progressive!

** NOTE** WARNING-THIS IS A VERY LONG POST** WARNING**

Btw, while I cover the drummers of King Crimson, you'll I think(?) find this more of a History(albeit MY abridged version of the band)of King Crimson. Just thought you should know before proceding.

However, no band can ever claim to have begun this mucial change, & even KC say they either 'unknowingly' or 'unwitingly' began this movement, but don't claim that they are solely responsible for "prog music". That 'they' were just 'trying' to blend their fave music styles, Jazz, hard rock,& orchestral music! Remember "Fusion" music hadn't even begun yet!

It wasn't until like 71 or maybe 73 & Billy Cobham's incredible 1st solo album "Spectrum" had been released & that term was started. Btw, 1 song on that beginning to end great album, called "Stratus" begins so fast with a florish by Cobham on the toms, & bass drums before the guitar & synth(By Tommy Bolin & Jan Hammer respectibly)begin at a lightening pace! Virgil does this song w/"OTV" which I have a bootleg video of that is a great looking & sounding dvd-r. Virgil also does the song when he on drums for 1 of the "Buney Brunel" bands I have on a few great boots too.

The 'fusion' thing had begun w/The Tony Williams band "Lifetime" & it's release of it's 1st recording w/John MacLaughlin on seering guitar! But the 'press' or whomever hadn't yet given this new music a name. It was electric Jazz & electric R&R that was blended into "fusion" music!! So the term is said to have begun m/Cobham's release of "Spectrum".

In fact, King Crimson's band's leader(even tho he claims he's NOT, sure Bob!)Robert Fripp has been the only original member who's remained w/the band over it's 36 year odyssey(!)said that 'his band' KC did not lay claim to inventing "progressive music" but they did. Back to the band's ever, constantly relvolving door of musician's:

KC was 1 of my fave bands, for over 25 years!! They just stopped being one my faves over the past 3-4 yrs & I was 'on the fence' regarding them & they're place amoung my fave band's a few yrs before that, but I saw them again in 2001 & while I didn't like EVERYTHING they had recorded lately. The sounded SO GREAT that nite, that even the songs I didn't like on the cd's I liked live! I guess I was spoiled b/c on the 1st 4 albums I LOVED EVERY CUT! Which is saying ALOT when ANY BAND can record 4 albums(back then an album would clock in at around 35-40 mins top's for a single LP!)& you love every single cut on the album!! Later I also liked MANY of their cd's start to end! Like "Lark's Tounge..." That album from 71 is the 1st 1 Bruford was on & is just brilliant!! Jamie Muir their short term percussionist, had ALOT to do w/the success of that lp!!

They followed that up w/the equally great "In The Wake of Posidon", & then "Cirkus" & "Islands" & having already changed the band members to get different sounds 2 times over the course of the last 2 albums, the band was overhauled again & this line-up remained until 1971'. Bruford & percussionist extraordinaire, Jamie Muir(who very unfortunately was a bit of a 'lunatic' & left to go to a Monastery after only 1 album(but 1 of the best!)& 1 tour! I believe he now plays percussion again for a living? (More on Muir in a second) & the equally impressive vocalist & virtuoso bass player, John Wetton, & violinist David Cross.

Jamie Muir was a wildman on & offstage. Usually Fripp wouldn't tolerate any crazies(Muir didn't use drugs)but b/c Muir was SO talented, he allowed Jamie to be Jamie. If you buy any of the cd's or stuff that has photo's of Muir you can see him doing this. He used a very odd(esp for 1971!)array of things to bash, stick, mallet, throw on the stage or studio floor, whatever to get the desired sound! Anything! This meant he used heavy to lighter chains w/diff things attched at the ends of them, that created odd but great sounds. During more than 1 ocassion whislt Jamie was going beserk on stage, was swinging 1 of his heavy chains when he somehow let loose of it & in Fripp's word's,"The chain went flying past my head and only missed by an inch or so, as it made a buzzing sound the closer it got, I had no time to react!" Knowing of Jamie's & most other band member's growing dislike of Fripp's weird behaviour, I wouldn't doubt if Muir did it on purpose!!

Fripp is so reserved, he's always been almost a recluse while onstage. In fact I noticed every time I saw the band live(5 or 6 times)Fripp moved from almost a normal position(he's ALWAYS sat & played on a wooden stool)on stage, to moving further & further back! The last time I 'kind of saw him' was in 2001 & altho my friends & I were center stage, & Fripp was almost totally obstructed(on purpose)hiding as best he could on his stoll behind the stage curtain & a bank of monitors!! He's odd to say the least. He once stopped a concert after the audience was told, & signs were in the entrance way's, "No Smoking No flash or other photography. ALL CAMERA'S WILL BE CONFISCATED!" Well, some arse got a camera in, took a photo w/a flash & Bob got up, said into the mic, sth like, "You were warned. You cannot behave civilized, so we're leaving, and will NOT be coming back!" That was that. End of a $20 dollar concert. he's gotten worse over the past 23 years.

For anyone who's NEVER heard a King Crimson album before, EVER, i'd suggest
you 1st, MUST get the 1st "IN the Court...", but then even tho all those other
4 albums are great from opening to close, i'd suggest you get "Lark's Tounge In Aspic", b/c 1st of all you simply WON'T believe it was recorded 34 yrs ago! It sounds brand new!! Contemporary!! It's just a roundbreaking, groundshaking album!! Then you can get "In the Wake of Posiden" or whatever else you choose as long as it's from the 1st 25 years of KC's exsistence!!

Btw.There are 2 poor live 'offical' but bootleg quality recordings of KC 'live' from the period Muir was w/the band, & even tho the quality sucks, you can plainly hear Muir contributions in the music. Just either go to www.dgm.com & if that addy isn't current, do a "Google" on either Discipline Global Mobile or King Crimson recordings & once you see the initals "DGM" you're in the right spot to find every recording ever done by this band. Either the superb sounding studio cd's that were significantly improved using today's technology & b/c the were alble to find EVERY analog master tape of the oldest material, these sound insanely great when I play the mint condition LP's next to the cd's of today!

Many KC fanatic's say that Fripp is just trying to "make money by continuing to release, then do a newer release of material on cd", but I own several of what were called in 1989 "The Definitive Editions" of their older material, & then in 2001 the exact same material that was on, "The Essential King Crimson-FRame By Frame" is also on 2001's "The 21st Century Guide To King Crimson" & I can tell you that after playing each cut, 1 after another, or side by side & pausing 1 or the other on my 2 cd's player's(of equal fidelity, thru the same speakers)what Fripp said in 89 & 91 is true. He said in 89: "In re-mastering the music here, we used the best equipment available both digital & the highest quality analog equipment. Given time & budget(The catalog was owned in it's entirity by "EG" KC's management. Now "DGM" & Fripp owns it all)it was the best we could do." From 2001: "The aim of the "21st Century Guide..." is to replace the "Frame By Frame" 4-cd compilation, taking advantage of 10 years worth of technological advances 10 years of additional "live" & studio Crimsoning, & 12 years of archiving live material. So IF you can buy the 2001 stuff!

Oh also, there are a few dvd's of the band, but i'd suggest you go w/"Deja VROOOM", as it's from 1999 & has more special up to date camera work, & features, the "Double Trio" of Fripp/Adrian Belew(who was on FZ's great "Baby Snakes" dvd too!)guitars-Bill Bruford("Yes" the early & BEST Yes albums in my opinion-his own band "Earthwork's)& Pat Masetloto they both use acoustic & electronic drums)Tony Levin(Tony's appeared on more recorded work than ANY other bass player I do believe! He's on all or nearly all of Paul Simon's stuff-GEnesis-"Black Light Syndrome" both cd's w/Bozzio drums & the great Steve Stevens guitar-"Liquid Tension Experiment" both cd's w/Dream Theatre drummer Mike Portnoy & other great players. he's on everything!)& Trey Gunn on either bass or Chapman stick, they switch)

Plus "Deja VROOOM" has many special features like the 1 where you can put different musicians from diff era's on songs like "21st Century Scgizoid Man" more. PLus it has other cool features.

However, the 1 dvd pkg of(these are both on this 1 dvd)but KC did vhs vid's called "The Noise 1982's performance in France, Frejus & Japan 1984's "3 of a Perfect Pair"

Then the band changed again for the completely diff album "RED"(1974) where they invited a couple of the original members back,Ian McDonald(Piano-saxes-Mellotron, ect) & Mel Collins(Sax-Flute-synth-Melltron) & "RED" became the turning point where KC would become a very HEAVY band!

While that line up recorded a few albums it would again change & w/o Wetton it moved on to Tony Levin bass & Chapman stick, & Fripp & Bruford joined by ex-FZ guitarist Adrian Belew, & a few years later KC became a double Trio, having 2 musicians on ea instument, so Bruford & Pat Mastelotto on drums, & electronic drums(both played acoustic & electronic), Fripp/Belew guitars w/Belew doing the lead vocals, & Tony Levin & Trey Gunn on bass.(Gunn plays the stick basses, but they switch on & off playing reg bass) & this line-up began in 1994/95 thru the present.

So I think that the contribution of drummer's Michael Giles on the 1st two studio albums & also on the 1 "live" disc from 69 & KC's tour of the U.S. is undeiably great! His little cymbal rolls, his great tom fills, & overall great drumming on the 1st 2 studio albums is just great!

I'm sure everyone on this site knows of Bruford's work w/Yes, but if you've somehow never heard any KC albums he's on(Remember, he left a highly successful band in "Yes" & he KNEW they were about to become even bigger!
He still left to become part of KC so that should tell you sth about the band.
His drumming on any of the many albums he did w/KC(he was w/them longer than anyone but Fripp who's been there from 69 to now!)71 thru 2001or 02!!

Ian Wallace was the drummer for the band for 2 tours & a # of albums. If anyone likes the older material of KC there is now a band(well there has been for a 2-3 yr period now)called "The 21st Century Schizoid Band" that b/c Fripp refuses to do anything older than the great song "RED" from the album by the same name(done in 1974)& altho I didn't attend the KC concert the last time they were here,(I started losing interest in them by then, & this was the ONLY KC concert here I ever missed!)I was told that Fripp refised to do "Red" & had changed it to sth from the "3 of a Perfect Pair" album. Also, the song Red & the song from that last lp I mentioned, ARE the ONLY older material he'd do live! So the "21st CenScihizoid Band is made up of only ex musicians that used to be in KC & a few were quite important to that band, & they play ONLY the older KC music that everyone who loves KC wants to hear, that & a few new origs too. Just go to www.21stcenturyschizoidband.com

These ex-members are: Ian McDonald: Alto sax-flute-Keys-grand paino-vocals & perc. Mel Collins: Barritone-Tenor & Alto Saxes-flute-keys & backing vocals. Peter Giles bass & backing vocals. Michael Giles: Percussion drums & vocal & the ONLY non ex member of King Crimson is the incredibly talented Jakko Jakszyk who is a great guitarist!(He'd have to be to try & duplicate the various stages of Robert Fripp's genius guitar playing style & INCREDIBLE VOCALIST being able to copy the many vocalists that KC employed over the years!!

Plus Fripp began this instructional group for guitar players & people wanting to begin learning the guitar, called "Guitar Craft". These sessions are held all over the U.S. & other countries. Fripp insists that the people that join, get together w/him & members of the great "California Guitar Trio"(If you've never heard of them, it's a various # of guitarists only that perform live concerts & have recorded too, but these geetar players play intricate guitar peices at they're concerts, plus do "surf music" too only i've NEVER heard the songs played like this before! Just google either Guitar Craft or The California Guitar Trio to learn more.Altho it's called a trio, there are more than 3 guitarists in it now!

They have a dvd(Nov 6, 2002 Japan)& 3 live cd's. Check website for dates.

My friend Paul Baker who lives in Watford England not but 15-20 miles from London & is 42 has an older brother, Chris, closer to my age(I'm 53)he is maybe about 2-4 yrs younger than me & he grew up about 1 block away from Mike Giles the drummer for KC & 21st Band too, & they became friends. Chris also had Jakko his exact own age live across the street & they played together as youngsters & hung out later & remained friends.

So my friend Paul was asked when he was about 16 to help his brother Chris & Jakko to help load equipment from the practice facility, to a truck & he told mwe when here he often had to load 1 of those heavy arse "Melltron's", which I told him roughly weight about the same as a HEAVY ARSE, "Hammond B-3" Organ, like the ones Keith Emerson used to use 2 or 3, sometimes 4 of during an "ELP" concert!! I know b/c i've been in 3 diff bands where the keybrdist used a B-3 in his set-up!!

Btw. IF you decide to buy any of the "21st Century Schizoid Band" cd's or dvd, you'll notice on ea one, under who the musicians would like to Thank, that under Jakko's, it always has Chris Baker.

This is b/c they were/are friends, but it was Chris who 1st took "King Crimson's 1st album, "In The Court...." over to Jakko's house & played it for him! And Jakko then bought 2 guitars(1 electric & 1 acosutic)& he began to play guitar b/c of Chris bringing that album over & Jakko hearing Fripp! Cool hey? Of course Jakko took lessons, but turned out to be a natural! He has a couple of solo albums on but you'd have to do a search to find out what label they are on?

B/c of this, Paul my friend the younger bro, was taken to his very 1st concert by Jakko & brother Chris & believe it or not it was to see "GENTLE GIANT"!! Anyway, before I go into "GG" i'll tell you that it was b/c of Paul that I was able to get my HERO's autographs on their 1st cd(The Schizoid Band)as these guys(all but 1 were on the 1st 2 KC albums!! Btw, Mike Giles the guy who formed "The Schizoid Band & was it's drummer, quit 1 day after the interviews all the members give on the 2002 dvd! So the great Ian Wallace is now their drummer, & is on their latest live cd from Japan too.

The incredible 5 man progressive unit that began playing together under that name in 1970!! & was led by the 3 fabulous Schulman Brothers, whom all could play multiple instruments! Only 1 brother(Phil I think)was only in "GG" for 2 years & 2-3 albums. The others remained & "GG" were a great band from 1970 thru 1986.

They just released their only dvd called, "Giant on the Box" which Paul gave me(along w/alot more gifts)when he visited the U.S. in July for 16-17 days to see a lady, & he was gracious enuff to come & stay at a Downtown hotel for the 5 nites & 4 days he visited me in STL.

Paul is a drummer at heart(IMO)& altho he plays guitar, & he got to play on the finest drumkit he ever saw, my $13,000 "Smith Custom Drums" 9pc kit!! He had a blast, & IF I can get this old pc(from 98)to cooperate, i'll post some of the pic's I took of him on it.

It's the ONLY kind of kit in the world like this & will NEVER be duplicated by "Smith"!!

Thats what the owner Joe Murawski told me. I WON this kit & was able to choose; the sizes,(I chose weird, very strange sizes, 1 Eg: is the 6.5" deep by 10" diameter, ride tom! Another is the 16"x 11" deep floor tom!)type of wood, I chose special Maple, bearing edge degree cut on the drums,(I chose diff cuts for the toms than I did the 3 snare drums I wanted!)& I got to chose, type of finish or wrap!

Plus I asked for a RIMS style mount, even tho Smith has they're own style mounts which I like better; for the 4.5" deep X 10" diameter soprano snare drum, I wanted 1 for it so I could either put it on a stand or use the mount & mount it on my rack! I have 5 toms(2 floor)an 18x22 inch bass drum, & the soprano snare I mentioned plus a 12 x 4/5" picolo snare, & the main snare, a 14x5 inch incredible sounding snare drum! It reminds me alot of the old "Radio KIng's" or other vintage snares.

I won these beauties in a "Modern Drummer" contest, & I have been subscribing to "MD" for 10 years, & I ONLY enter specific contests & have won twice in 4 years! So for those of you that live in the U.S. I say send in those postcards.

I realize this has been more a history on King Crimson than it was about the magnificent drummer, but believe me, any cd you choose by KC you'll hear some great drumming.

Thanks, BZ'er

Tracie
11-22-2005, 05:28 PM
you have good tastes in music.. Im 43 and I aM with ya..peace. TRACIE

KarnEvil
11-22-2005, 08:26 PM
Red is such an awesome album along with The Power To Believe.