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Xen-
10-16-2003, 12:14 PM
I'm having a hard time playing doubles with my feet. My left foot is really weak technically. I believe I have two options: Either keep playing rudiments so it might catch up one day, or play rock/funk beats with left foot leading on bass drum.

Any suggestions?

Milo Porto
10-16-2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Xen-
I'm having a hard time playing doubles with my feet. My left foot is really weak technically. I believe I have two options: Either keep playing rudiments so it might catch up one day, or play rock/funk beats with left foot leading on bass drum.

Any suggestions?

Xen...play with a click, start slow....try to accent on every chrochet/quater note...and do paradiddles with both your feet...i.e. RRLLRRLLRRLLRRLLRRLLRRLL

or come up with combinations...i.e.

RRRLLLRRRLLLRRRLLLRRRLLL LLLRRRLLLRRRLLLRRRLLLRRR

RRRLL LLLRR RRRLL LLLRR...etc

you can even try coming up with ridiculous combinations...it might look stupid but im sure it helps in the long run....i.e.



RRLLRLRRLRLRLLRLRLRLRLRRLLRLLRLRRLRLLRLRLLRLRRLRRLRRLRRLRRLRRLRRLLRLRLLRLRLRRLRLRLLRLRLRR...etc

hope it helps..!!

do regular runs maybe minimum 3 times per week...for 30min or 45min!


p.s. im also working on my doubles on my feet...AARRGGHHHH frustrating izznt it..!!

:mad: :D :D

Xen-
10-16-2003, 12:46 PM
Thanks Milo, but I'm already doing all those rudiments like parradiddles, flam triplets, drags. The problem is mostly the way my left foot slides.

With my right foot, the first hit(s) require practically no leg movement, then I slam it for the final hit. The whole movement is sliding the foot forward.

On the other side, my left foot requires a first hit that is way to powerful and ends with the weakers hits. It's the exact contrary. The speed is also dramatically slower.

I control the tempo, it's mostly the power that gives the balance between the feet that just won't work.


BTW I'm also a running machine. :D I've stopped for a while and realized it's more important than it looks. Run!

jonberg
10-17-2003, 07:42 AM
Im going to tour with our music-class around in sweden and in norway, and we will play different kinds of music and styles. We are going to play dogboots just to have some kind of progressive kind of music. That will be fun, I will practise a little extra on the doubles the next couples of days :D I will play it in around 186bpm probably.

Just be stubborn with your doubles and it will work out just fine.
Practise different patterns besides doubles as well.
Good luck!

Milo Porto
10-17-2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by Xen-
Thanks Milo, but I'm already doing all those rudiments like parradiddles, flam triplets, drags. The problem is mostly the way my left foot slides.

With my right foot, the first hit(s) require practically no leg movement, then I slam it for the final hit. The whole movement is sliding the foot forward.

On the other side, my left foot requires a first hit that is way to powerful and ends with the weakers hits. It's the exact contrary. The speed is also dramatically slower.

I control the tempo, it's mostly the power that gives the balance between the feet that just won't work.


BTW I'm also a running machine. :D I've stopped for a while and realized it's more important than it looks. Run!

you might wanna try just playing your pedals so as to make the beater tap the head only...not smack the head but just tap the head, then slowly dynamically play it from taps to smacks! just by doing the simple RRLLRRLLRRLLRRLL only....!! trying that now VERY VERY VERY VERY SLL........OOOOOO....LLL..YYYYYYYY!! :D

timthedrummer
10-17-2003, 11:51 PM
yeh its kinda frustrating developing ur doubles- just think about the time u developed ur hand doubles!!
the way i develop them is
- playing along to linkin park (cuz linkin park have very simple feels/song structure) doin 16th note doubles to all the songs (this way i dont get bored and u cant really hear the doubles cuz i have good in ear monitors in) so i dont get frustrated!
- playing along to songs with just my left foot doing lots of double spurts

keep perserveering u'll get there!!

peter
10-29-2003, 10:44 AM
Xen,

Have you tried moving down on the footboard?

Xen-
10-29-2003, 10:58 AM
I'm getting better at it everyday now, giving doubles about an hour or two.

When going at faster tempos (+170bpm), do you use the same motion or do you get a ''wobbling'' in your ankles?

peter
10-29-2003, 11:01 AM
Xen-,

Some might differ but I use more
leg weight and push at higher bpm.

Have you tried moving your foot
down on the footboard?

alencore
10-29-2003, 11:44 AM
learn to play the 16 note samba bass drum beat on your left foot.

do it slowly at first then soon it will go up to speed.

Xen-
10-29-2003, 11:56 AM
Peter, I think moving the foot down on the footboard is like cheating as I gain speed but loose control while power remains.

peter
10-29-2003, 12:12 PM
Well, I can't change how you
feel about doing it.

Let me just tell you that a LOT
of great players use the lower
portion of the footboard, as
well as the upper portion.

Not that I'm calling myself a
great player but my kick is not
so bad and I use both.

You CAN control the lower foot-
board. I do not agree with the
idea that the use of the lower
part of the footboard is "cheat-
ing". It is a part of footboard
and there for a reason.

This is about physics, as well
skill. At least, think about it.

I'll give you two players who
use the lower portion of the
footboard to engage their
strokes. One is David Weckl
and the other is Dennis
Chambers. I kind of like their
kicks. A lot of other players do
too. Of course, I can be wrong
but it might work for you.

Let me ask you something,
Xen-... Do you think that using
the rebound of the head is
cheating? I mean on your
snare or tom, for that matter.
What is the difference? Can
you tell me where you got
that idea? The best double-
kickers are not 100% in con-
trol of the 2nd-stroke.

Don't set yourself up for dis-
appointment. Get the result
any way you can and THEN
refine it. The more results
you get, the more motivated
you will be to refine them.

That's my take, at least.

I just want you to succeed.

:)

Xen-
10-29-2003, 12:21 PM
Using both is perfect, that's actually what I do. I only think that ALWAYS playing on the lower part isn't a great idea.

peter
10-29-2003, 12:22 PM
I don't always play down there
though I am trying to, more and
more and it's coming along.

Xen-
10-29-2003, 12:27 PM
Where do you seem to get the best rebound? I think I'm about to learn something good today. ;)

peter
10-29-2003, 01:02 PM
Xen-,

If we divide the footboard into
3 and we are "pushing" the foot-
board into the kick, it's the bot-
om third of it.

Higher end of the footboard = control
but less rebound.

Lower end of the footboard = less
control but more rebound.

Right where that 3rd is - that's the
sweet spot (the line where the
second 3rd meets the third is
where it begins). :)

alencore
10-30-2003, 07:18 AM
wow! well said pete. it's a total waste of energy in my opinion playing the pedal way up the foot board though.

peter
10-31-2003, 11:25 PM
On average, I hang out on the
blue and black cams the most,
speaking of the Eliminators.

peter
11-21-2003, 02:09 PM
So, how is the double kicking
coming along, everybody?

Any reports or observations?

Anything at all is helpful. :)

peter
11-21-2003, 02:28 PM
I have noticed that the further
the distance I have my beater
set, the smaller the cam I must
use and really, the blue is the
only choice. Red is too weak
and the Black is too strong. I
need the beater a little closer
to the head for the black. :)

Xen-
11-21-2003, 03:24 PM
Peter, thanks for your tips, moving the foot back SLIGHTLY on the footboard helped. My left leg is catching up too. Hoping to hit 200 soon! :D

peter
11-21-2003, 06:35 PM
I'm glad to hear it. My control
over it has improved too. I am
actually playing most of my pat-
terns heel-up now.

Great job, Xen! :)

MaltBuddow3
11-22-2003, 01:00 PM
I wrote a thing under "Suggested Quick Fix for Double Bass Speed", or whatever the thread is called. The only way to get better is to slow it down. Look at your feet when you play and try to make your left foot look the right foot. If you take the time to slow it down now and really work on it you'll get somewhere, but if you do it half way time will keep on passing by and you'll get nowhere. Now, I'm not an expert but if you go to that thread I mentioned before I put down what I do with my feet, which has taken me from horrible feet to much better feet. (Heel down is the secret to toe down). I wish you the best of luck in your double bass workouts, and if you find something that works be sure to let us on the forum know. Right now I'm just thinking, "If I work on it continually (I'm 17) now, then by the time I'm out of the University of North Texas my feet will be smokin!" So try to keep that attitude, we play for life, whether it's for fun or to pay the bills, so time is in abundance. Good Luck!

Brobjer
11-22-2003, 01:35 PM
I use a technique where I don't actually "hit" the pedal.

Place your foot, with your heel up, on the floor and move your knee up and down. You will see that your foot is pushed to the floor softly.
This is basically what I do. My foot is always rested on the pedal and the stroke is done by just moving your knee upwards. This is a technique that is useful for speeds over 200 bpm's. Below that you can use more of your legpower.
I also play at the higher end of my pedal when I play fast. You loose power, but I have worked on this and achieve good power now. You are actually able to plat much faster at the higher end, because the movement becomes smaller. Along with the "knee-up" technique, you should develop good speed. I have clocked 224 bpm's for almost a minute.
At slower speeds I place my foot at a lower end and use the bounce in the pedal.

Good luck!

- Brobjer - www.andreasbrobjeronline.cjb.net

peter
11-22-2003, 03:32 PM
Brobjer,

Tell me more about this. When
I do what you say, my foot drops
to the floor. It doesn't get pushed
to the floor. Is this what you mean?

What is the angle of your lower to
higher leg? I use my legs and push
the pedal for the strokes BUT for
the fast doubles, move down on
the footboard. I'm curious. :)

For my cardiac arrest:

www.thediametrixletter.com/jogfrog.mp3

:eek:

Brobjer
11-23-2003, 02:19 AM
IMPORTANT: This is a technique for single stroke.

You are placing your foot like if you were playing a back-beat on your hihat.
That is, your calf is going to be a little tensed, because yor are lifting your heel up. Although, you shouldn't stand on your toes. Ok? :)
Now, when I lift my knee up several times in a row, my lower leg will start bouncing up and down. When my knee goes up, I have to tense and lift up my foot up a little too, but it still has to be rested on the floor.
Practise this on the drums till you feel comfortable with it and till your feet is always rested on the pedals and you feel that your stroke is played with minimum movement, but still powerful. I sit very low on my drum throne. Probably around 80-90. This is also why I use the French matched technique.

Anyways, as I said, I play my fast singles on the upper part of my pedalboard. I'm sure that you understand what that is but I'm explaning it anyways;
As you said, the pedal board is divided into three parts: The lower (the part the furthest away from the bassdrum) which incorporates great bounce, but bad control. The upper which incorporates less bounce, but more control. The middle which is a combination of the lower and upper.
I have just practised my technique to fit the upper part the best. I'm sure that you can practise any part of the pedal and receive good control and speed, but the upper part works the best for me.
This is because of the small movement the pedal makes, and because I use the technique I explained before. I think you'll grasp it pretty quick when you've got the idea :)

Have a nice day!

Brobjer

CainIV
11-24-2003, 04:52 PM
Yes I use the same technique as Brobjer. It's a heel / toe type technique that yields two strokes essentially out of one movement, very similar to double strokes using fingers for hands....
I start with my toe on board and my heel is about 1/2 inch off the board...in the same position i usally do singles....
Then i pivot my foot forward so that the beater hits the head and my calf ends up rasied with my heel about 2 inches off the ground, depending onthe tempo. My knee also raises up. This is the first stroke. Then for the second double, i drop my heel back down to the board...so that the area of the ball of the foot or heel come down on the board to create the second hit....all in all its one motion where your knee raises and comes down..once you start the doubles, your heel will come down onto the board after every second stroke.....

The best way to practice it is to set your metronome very slow initally...60 bpm or so....then go thru the motions...
One thing i found very helpful is that you can practice this technique anytime you are away from the kick and have spare time...

Hope this helps
Teodd

peter
11-25-2003, 05:46 AM
"You are placing your foot like if you were
playing a back-beat on your hihat."

Got that.

"That is, your calf is going to be a little tensed,
because yor are lifting your heel up. Although,
you shouldn't stand on your toes. Ok?

Got that, too.

"Now, when I lift my knee up several times in a
row, my lower leg will start bouncing up and
down. When my knee goes up, I have to tense
and lift up my foot up a little too, but it still has
to be rested on the floor."

Got this, as well.

"Practise this on the drums till you feel comfort-
able with it and till your feet is always rested on
the pedals and you feel that your stroke is play-
ed with minimum movement, but still powerful.
I sit very low on my drum throne. Probably a-
round 80-90. This is also why I use the French
matched technique."

Yes.

"Anyways, as I said, I play my fast singles on
the upper part of my pedalboard. I'm sure that
you understand what that is but I'm explaning
it anyways; As you said, the pedal board is div-
ided into three parts: The lower (the part the
furthest away from the bassdrum) which incorp-
orates great bounce, but bad control. The upper
which incorporates less bounce, but more control.
The middle which is a combination of the lower
and upper. I have just practised my technique to
fit the upper part the best. I'm sure that you can
practise any part of the pedal and receive good
control and speed, but the upper part works the
best for me."

Makes sense to me.

"This is because of the small movement the pedal
makes, and because I use the technique I explain-
ed before. I think you'll grasp it pretty quick when
you've got the idea."

For singles, this makes sense. For doubles, you
drop down on the footboard?

Brobjer
11-25-2003, 06:18 AM
Peter,

Well, I actually feel that I am no good at doubles. I can maybe manage 180-190 or so. I have never prsctised it once. Just tried the technique, but haven't given it any actual practisetime.
Right now, I don't feel that practising doubles on the bass is a big priority.
I am working a lot more on hand technique and rythmic illusions etc. A lot of time goes to practising rhythmical patterns and principes.
But When I do doubles, I have to move down the footboard to get enough glide and play w/ my heel a little higher than when I would do singles.

See ya - Brobjer

CainIV
11-25-2003, 07:02 AM
Yes i drop heel to board specifically only when doing doubles...when I do fast singles i always keep my heel lightly off the board....there is some close shots of Tim Waterson doing it at the WFD...and alot of those clips can be seen here:

http://www.tigerbill.com/subjects/wfd.htm

~teodd

swedendrummer
11-25-2003, 07:20 AM
hey brobjer do you recommend the rythmic illusion book by gavin harrison..maybe i will buy that book + four other books...from amazon ...

peter
11-25-2003, 07:46 AM
Brobjer,

The control on the singles is
definitely there, up on the foot-
board but what I don't like is the
switch to doubles. I had been do-
ing better at controlling those
strokes down there. At the same
time, I think it's important that we
explore these different options.
I will try to use it more and tell
you what my thoughts are.

Thanks for sharing. :)

Brobjer
11-25-2003, 09:07 AM
To Swedendrummer:

That book is the most developing piece of material you can get on the market according to myself and what I have used. I have learned extremly much from that book. I felt a whole new world opening for me when I started working in it.
But remember that it is a VERY hard book if you haven't worked with illusions. In the last chapters, you will work on creating illusions over ex. subdivisions of seven and eleven, and that is very hard.
I haven't worked with it a lot, and I have just paged through it, working on some stuff in the middle.
It is a whole new way of thinking. It isn't "techniqually" hard at all.
It's just pure brain mathematics.
Because the illusions you create must to be the most simple patterns you can play, so people will recognise the groove and hang on to the illusion. By that I mean that the groove you will make isn't hard techniqually.
It is playing it over a ex. subsivision of five that makes it hard. So it is shortly spoken an awesome book to train yo' brain!

G och kp den! ;)

Peter,

Yup! I, aswell, feel I have the most control on the upper part of the footboard.
If I got it right, you felt difficulty switching from playing singles to doubles just right away? You mean, practising "rudiments" but for the bassdrum?
As I said, I haven't worked a lot on rudimental bassdrum playing, but I think I know what you say.
I suggest to balance both double and single technique playing on the same spot on the footboard.
By that I mean, if you play your singles high on the board and your doubles low, play both inbetween. That would be a little above middle, right? Asleast for my own sake! :D:D
I play neither singles or doubles on the edge of the footboard, but that is a matter of your own taste and what feels good to you.

A little new "thread" to everyone else: :)
It is too bad many drummers believe they will be as good as their "drum heroes" by buying the exact same stuff they have.
I saw a thread considering Virgil's new sticks and many drummers replied back As If they use those sticks Only because Virg does that.
I mean, everything's a matter of taste and everyone are different in hand/foot size, basic technique etc.
So practically spoken, you could get worse and uncomfortable by using the same stuff as the pro's =)
Peter, I saw you posted back and explained that Virg's stick might not be the alltime best, and that shows you are choosing from your own needs :)

Have a nice day!

- Brobjer

peter
11-25-2003, 09:21 AM
Brobjer,

I'm an old man. That's why I
talk like that. I guess I have
been around the block a few
times, in 44 years. ;)

When I studied with Tony
Williams, the first thing I not-
iced was the size of his hands.
There was no way I was go-
ing to be able to control the
stick, exactly the way he did.

It's useful to know, however,
what people are using, so
you can experiment. There
are a lot of heavy sticks out
there that you can get your
hands on and try.

Like you indicated, it's about
finding what's right for you.
You have to fulfill needs.

By the way, I am right in the
middle, working at it, now;
seeing if I like it better and
I have not complaints, so
far. I appreciate your com-
ments and see the logic in
your view and approach.

Thanks for your insights
and please continue to
write them in.

That goes for everyone, as
well. I know I appreciate
what you guys share. :)

peter
11-27-2003, 09:18 PM
I just bought a new hard-drive
and hope that this will allow me
to do some current video and
especially of what I have done
with my double-strokes on the
kick, in order to show you ex-
actly what I have been talking
about regarding the footboard
and set-up etc.

Let's hope it does the trick.

DRUMVARNA
11-27-2003, 09:48 PM
Peter i want to find your Video!!!where i can do that?

peter
11-28-2003, 05:54 AM
DV,

I don't have a video. Every
now and then I like to take
video of some of my playing
to illustrate what I'm working
on or having trouble with or
to explain about a question
that has come up on a forum.

However, a few months ago,
I started running VERY lean on
hard-drive space. I have not
installed it yet but when I get
a good moment, I will and hope-
fully, I'll be able to do some new
ones that might be interesting.

www.thediametrixletter.com/doodle_56k.mov

That's one of the last ones I did.
That was many months ago, I'm
afraid. I wanted to do some on
double-kicking, though and couldn't.
It was right around the time I was
doing all them dogpoop audios.

Hopefully, I will be able to get to
some in the very near future and
be able to talk about some of the
things I found that might help.

alencore
11-28-2003, 08:31 AM
hehe, finally we see the man himself!
awesome hands man!
the drum solo itself ain't bad over all.
those e-drums are simply nice.

peter
11-28-2003, 08:38 AM
Well, I'm just an old drummer.

Can't expect much from these
elderly players...

;)

alencore
11-29-2003, 07:28 AM
hehe, you are still very young in a drumming age afaic.

peter
11-29-2003, 07:50 AM
OK. I have tried to clean this up.
There's just a hair left...


www.thediametrixletter.com/mydogbootsmellc.mp3

Lucius
11-29-2003, 03:56 PM
Thats f****** awesome peter! Nice work!! :D

quitou
11-29-2003, 07:04 PM
I'm with Lucius on this one, sounds pretty killer to me Peter!!!! You're actually keeping up with Virgil :o and doing a great job at it....I'm sure in a few days you'll have it completely mastered....what can I say...two thumbs up !!!!

MaltBuddow3
11-30-2003, 05:26 AM
nice job Peter! Very inspirational... it's good to know you dont have to be an alien to do that. Keep up the good work.

peter
11-30-2003, 03:46 PM
Thanks, guys.

Trying to get it right.

www.thediametrixletter.com/mydogbootsmelld.mp3

Still off, there.

This one slipped on:

www.thediametrixletter.com/mydogbootsmelle.mp3

peter
12-01-2003, 09:38 AM
I have to tell that after running
through that tune, back to back,
5 times, my legs got sore!

I have found my new aerobic
work-out!

:)

quitou
12-01-2003, 11:50 AM
Well peter, you must be in killer shape to be able to play that song 5 times in a row....i can't even get through the thing once, let alone 5 times in succession....

peter
12-01-2003, 12:55 PM
Quitou,

I'm not. My legs are killing me!
The pain is in my thigh, just a-
bove my knee, on the side. I
have definitely found my aer-
obic exercise!

I am noticing that I have a lot
less attention on what I'm doing
down there, though because of
the layering up top.

This is like a warm-up for V and
it's becoming apparent to me that
this tune is one of his easiest. I
know that sound weird but the
truth is the doubles below are
constant, whereas, with most
of the other tunes, their isol-
ated and spaced apart.

Also remember that I am using
the low-footboard technique that
I have been talking about for so
long. It's better for the double-
stroke, in my opinion.

I hope to have the other hard-
drive up, so that I can start to
do videos again. I'll let you know
when I am up and running.

Oh, by the way, I ordered new
Axis springs from them, so I
can re-fit the Tama IC and test
the the Eliminators with them.

I'm shuttering at these other
tunes. V is too much!

Pedro
12-01-2003, 04:22 PM
Hey Pete, sounds great!!, you're really close man.
I've one question for you and to all the drummers playing doubles in the BD.
So far I've been able to execute my ideas using singles, but I'm starting to get courious about the dobles, I thought that if I can play a samba pattern at 200 bpm, I'm playing 3 of the four strokes, so how difficult coud it be to just add the fourth;) ... but it took me 1 minute to realise that it won't be THAT easy.
My question it's not a technical question to how to play them, I guess I know the process, but I want your opinino as how really useful are.
A lot of the things that I hear Virgil do (dogg song icluded) you can do them with singles, so right now I'm not shure if it would be better to concentrate in the singles to be able to play more complex ideas or try the doubles?.
I guess I'm just thinking outloud but I'd like to hear diferent points from the guys that can play them. Thank you!!!:) .

peter
12-01-2003, 05:10 PM
Well, for one thing, a tune like
"Dogboots" becomes much more
difficult, I think.

As for why I think they're useful,
it has to do with the layering that
can take place on top of it.

If you're trying to layer over 16th-
notes, it's easier than 32nd-notes.
At least, it is to me. Whenever I
learning new material, I always
think in terms of where the notes
fall, relative the consecutive 16th-
note pattern.

When you're laying down consec-
utive double-strokes, it's so easy
to find your place, with your other
limbs, therefore making it easier to
learn or even create complex pat-
terns. When you're formulating,
the downbeats are always on
your right-foot. The upbeats are
always on the left.

Of course, that can be changed
but for simplicity's sake, it makes
a big difference for me.

Think of the comparison between
singles and doubles on the hands
too. I think it's the same. Virgil
uses the kick for ghosting more
than most players and that's be-
cause he has both feet sharing
the job, not just the right.

Does that make sense?

DavidPartay
12-01-2003, 06:30 PM
Hmmm...

I can see I have a bit of practising to do ;).

*wants to play dog boots*

peter
12-01-2003, 07:38 PM
Oh, stop, David! Like I said,
it's one of his EASIER tunes!
It's really anti-climactic.

Virgil is SO MUCH more than
"Dogboots". People still don't
realize that they're leaning on
a buzzsaw, when it comes to
him. He cuts right through and
like no other!

I know you'll get it and soon.
You are on your way, man!

quitou
12-01-2003, 07:55 PM
I think playing doubles instead of singles just gives it a bit of a different feel.....I think it is also a little bit of just trying to get more facility on the drums....what pedro says about being able to play with singles all the stuff you play with doubles is very true.....the way I'm looking at it is that it is just one more skill to have in the tool box and hopefully one day an oppotunity will present itself to use them....really for me I 'm just looking at challenging myself alot more because I am getting quite confident with singles now, but that's just one aspect of being able to play with you feet....

Thomas Lang says he tries to get his feet on par with his hands so that anything his hands play, his feet can play as well....I kinda look at it that....having extra factility on the drums is never a bad thing....

Lucius
12-01-2003, 10:47 PM
Thomas is a monster, and definatley NOT a Virgil clone :D

peter
12-02-2003, 07:50 AM
I did another one:

www.thediametrixletter.com/mydogbootsmellf.mp3

Loosened up a little....

quitou
12-02-2003, 08:23 AM
Agree with you there Lucius,
Lang is an absolute freak drummer, and I definitey think he is not a Virgil clone.....to me Lang has his own unique style and a very cool, impressive one at that.....I am eagerly awaiting the release of his new DVD....it'll be something else!!!

DRUMVARNA
12-02-2003, 09:07 AM
Peter I'm so expredive of your work man!!you a very great drummer and people together!!
ceep this practicing man!!!this dogboots is a hard work for men,and i want to play some day to!!i practicing Alien Hip-hop now,and i try to recordet to,but i dont have a chance for now,maybe soon....!!!!

bye!
DRUMVARNA!!

peter
12-02-2003, 09:42 AM
Now THAT is HARD!

DavidPartay
12-02-2003, 01:04 PM
Well I've played Dogboots with the feet playing single strokes at half the speed, and what the hands do on top I can mostly play (it's really more a matter of remembering what to do and where). I just can't do fast double strokes on the bassdrum :).

peter
12-02-2003, 01:21 PM
That's all it is, David. I'm sure
everyone can do this tune, with
their doubles up.

I'm anxious to hear you on these
tunes. Fertile ground.

MaltBuddow3
12-02-2003, 01:46 PM
Joe Ballistic just offered me a decent deal on his package. I dont believe in shortcuts to speed and control, but his stuff looks kinda interesting. Has anyone used the Ballistic Drumming program?

peter
12-02-2003, 02:27 PM
No. Tell us about it.

DavidPartay
12-02-2003, 03:34 PM
I've heard that the Ballistic Drumming is just the heel-toe method.

Peter - I'm going to record me playing Pyramids on Mars. I'm also trying to learn Native Metal. I just have to learn all the fills and the trickier sections in the song. Once I've gotten the Ataraxia foot pattern up to speed (like I mentioned in the other thread) then I'll practise that song until I've got it down and record that too :).

I'm also trying to learn Ignotus per Ignotus but my bassdrum work isn't up to scratch for it, and I still need to work out each separate section and stuff.

MaltBuddow3
12-02-2003, 04:55 PM
This guy out in Calif. claims he has the revolutionary method to get insane double bass speed. He goes in depth into the mechanics of the leg and foot, using a study done by Russian astronaughts or something like that. So he uses a whip like motion for his feet. He goes into the 3 adjustments to a pedal that most drummers look over that can automatically increase your control of the pedal. He claims that in a month you can have Virgilesque speed. How to play flams with your feet. Playing seven against five. I have the audio tape, and the weird stuff he does really sounds horrible, it's just pointlessly bizarre, but when he does the full on straight ahead stuff it sounds like a wasp fart. You can hardly hear the different strokes. He goes into double and single strokes. How to build up backup mass on your beater, which will make you play doubles really easily. There's tons of stuff. He's got Kenny Aronoff and Greg Bissionette and the oldest Reyes guy. They say good things about it. The add is always in MD, it's a 1/4 page thing that says something about an uncoordinated drummer getting crazy feet pratically overnight. Some of the stuff sounds shakey, but some of it is pretty cool. The site is ballisticdrums.com

peter
12-02-2003, 06:58 PM
Hmm.

I checked out some of the
info on the link.

It's understandably nebulous
but I did note that the equip-
ment he referred to and the
designer, especially or the
double-pedal drive-shaft was
Darrell from Axis. I have talked
to him personally.

I have the Sonic Hammer (SH).
The idea that Darrell had was to
use the SH, pulling the beater
WAY BACK, while adjusting the
SH FORWARD. The weight of the
beater and the whip created is
greater. There's something to
this. It's very demonstrable on
on Eliminators because of its
Uni-Pressure Spring Clamp.

There's no doubt about the pad
getting more surface area but
that can be gotten with other
beaters like the Tama IC.

The guy is selling them for $30.
That might be worth the money.

I would not be surprised if he
works lower on the footboard,
like I do but I will try and look
into it more.