The Problem To Left Hand And Left Leg!!!

[DRUMVARNA]

Hi everyone!!!
I try many years to play with left hand and leg like with ride hand and leg!!
I thing the traditional grip give more chance to play with heands like one,because you use diferent grip and this is easey to thing!!!

with legs it's the same problem.when i start to play with double bass i see that left leg didnt play like a ride!!!

i whate fot yours answer!!!

Drumvarna

[peter]

DV,

I'm not sure I understand.

You want to lead with your left hand
and use your left foot on the kick
and the right foot on the HH?

Please clarify.

[mauricio]

Hi there Varna & Peter....

I´m not sure I understand what DV means as well, but I have one suggestion:

If you´re right handed and play in the "conventional" way (LF on hi-hat, RF on bass drum, closed stance - mainly right hand on main hi-hat, left hand on snare), mount your kit as ou were a left-handed person - LF on bass drum, RF on hi-hat pedal, and toms going from left to right, if you use them in a descending configuration). This REALLY helps coordination - I did this when I got stuck in some sections while using Gary Chester´s "The New Breed" book, and it made a huge difference. I felt that when I got back to my "normal" right handed setup, I was much more cabaple of accenting in "weird" places with my weaker side (LF and LH).

Also, try mounting your ride cymbal ala Carter Beauford and Simon Phillips, using your normal setup, just for some weeks....These days, I FIRMLY believe that this is the way to go - open stance - It just works better once get comfortable with it, and it helps with breathing and singing.

I also like the multipe hi-hat appraoch many player are taking these days - Virgil, Minnemann, Lang etc - especially the use of a cable hi-hat on the right foot (the main bass drum foot). You could try adding a hi-hat pedal to the right side of your bass drum...or a jam block. If you´re more radical, you can get a 10' or 12' snare, mount it vertically and attach a double pedal to it, using some kind of beater that gives you more attack. I´m thinking of getting a lower grade double pedal just do do this (drum hardaware is SO expensive here in Brasil - does anyone want to send me a double Eliminator:)))???? )

[DRUMVARNA]

forgive my Inglish Gentleman!!!
I write today all text to normal Inglish with one my friend!!!

best regards!!!
DRUMVARNA

[jonberg]

I suggest playing from "the new breed 1&2" by Gary Chester, and also Marco Minnemans book "extreme interdependence"...it´s very good for your independence and to work on your "weak side"
Good luck!

[alencore]

he wants to ride on his left ala Simon Philips, I think.
You just have to practice playing more on the left then. But if you are a natural right handed player then it will take some time develop the left to gain enough strength, speed and control and much more importantly to make it sound natural. i mean ppl ride on their natural faster limb simply bec i think it's easier to make things sounds just right in the pocket. When i play I always make sure the riding hand leads making other limbs follow or latch to it.

[DavidPartay]

Actually I thought that he meant 'ride hand' as in 'right hand'...

Because he said "ride foot" as well....

And I'm pretty sure he's saying he wants to build speed and endurance in his left limbs.

[DRUMVARNA]

I means,i want to play with left hand like a ride,but it's sp hard I think!!
with feet it's the same problem!!!!
the skeals who whe have when play one and double strokes with ride hand and ride leg,whe dont have when whe play the same strokes with left hand and leg!!!!
Do YOU UNDURSTEAND ME???
I whant to play with left hand like a ride,i dont meand to change the cimbals or something else,I mean only the filings and the grip who whe have when whe play the one Ex.with ride hand ,it's the same when whe play with left hand!!!!
with legs it's the same!!because i play 10 years only with one double bass and Ni-hat,but when i get a double bass pedal i find that my left legs it's no so good like a ride,because i dont have a good stroke with this leg!!and i need much time whe i play a good strokes with left leg!!!!
I think the first when some man started to play drums is to make a good strokes with every part of his body,and after that to start to create a good coordination with every legs and hands!!!!
but that is the hardest part of every study!!!
I have one friend in Bulgaria ho played crazy,but he say me,"Jordan i listen all my life Dave Weckl" and Virgil destroy his dream before 8 years when he whaced his "Obsessive Rythums"
After that he start to play double strokes wtih legs,and for a Mont he play in 200 bpm!!he eath all Virgils Video Lessons and now he is the best Bulgarian Drummer,and when Virgil coming in Bulgaria for a Concert with Planet X,he dosent beleave when he see how Play Dimitar!!His name is DIMITAR SIMEONOV,and i try to riped his one drum solo,but i dont have a chance now,maybe after 2-3 weeks!!This man open my eyes for everything abauth drums!!!
htese is for now!!
Best Regards!!!
DRUMVARNA

[alencore]

whew, i'm much more confuse reading this longer post.

just ride on your stronger limb. and kill your darn english teacher...hehe just kidding.

[quitou]

I'm not sure I totally understand, but I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that you are saying that you left limbs are a lot weaker than your right limbs and they can't play as much...If I am interpreting your question correctly, my advice would just be to use your left hand and foot more...instead of playing a groove with your right hand on the hihat, use your left hand on the hihat instead and your right hand on the snare...If you own a double pedal, you could also play grooves using your left foot (on the left pedal) to play the bass drum parts...you could also try leading more with your left hand on fills and stuff...It feels really awkward at first, but you'll get the hang of it quite quickly...I really hope this helps!!!

[peter]

DV,

I THINK I know what you are asking and
perhaps you are asking the right person.

I play left-hand ride on a right-handed
drumset. If this is what you want to do
and you want me to talk about it, I will
be glad to share with you, my journey,
thus far. Let me know.

Check out this older thread:

http://www.virgildonati.com/msgboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=129

[DRUMVARNA]

I dont havea Inglish teacher,and that is the problem!!!I teach my slef!!!I'm sory abouth my bad cuestions!!!
Peter thats good method to play left hand to ride cimbal in ridehand style kit,but my cuestion is,how whe make a left hand to play like ride,because everybody who play in ride kit havea problem when he try to play open,because the left hand dont have this skils wich have ride hand!!!
if you dosent undurstean me,I wright a new tread with inglish teacher,and then whe talk!!!

Bye bye!!
DRUMVARNA

[peter]

DV,

The left-hand must be taught as
the right hand.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Like a cub must be taught to be a
lion, a left-hand must be taught to
be a right hand.

You must ask of the left hand the
same thing that was asked of the
right-hand.

Remember what it was like when
you first started playing the drums.
It will be the same. Early on, you
persisted in your use of the right-
hand for ride and accenting purp-
oses. This must be done for the
left-hand now. It CAN be done.

Remember the first song that you
learned on the drums, leading with
the right-hand. Do this song over
and over again, leading with the
left. If it is simple, it will be better.
Concentrate on accenting your
quarter-notes on your left-hand
ride-pattern and WITH the right-
footed kick. The accents will ham-
mer the nail into the wood. You
WILL get it, slowly but surely.

This is the beginning.

[alencore]

Originally posted by DRUMVARNA
if you dosent undurstean me,I wright a new tread with inglish teacher,and then whe talk!!!

Bye bye!!
DRUMVARNA
you don't have to ;well, a good friend fluent enough on english will do. (or a sexy with huge boobs english teacher will do, HAHAHA! JUST JOKING)

don't worry dude we will try as much as we could to help you sort out your drumming problem although i think you need to sharpen your english skill much more coz PETE's remarks as well as most ppl's remarks are well thought out but bec. of your poor english interpretation things gets much confusing on your side, i think.

anyway, enjoy drumming!
cheers!

[DRUMVARNA]

TENX Alencore,i try to learn Inglish soon as posible!!!

Peter thenk you man,i try to play like you said ,and if i have better results i say you!!!
With legs i think maybe whe try the same sistem,to play some song with ride legs,and after that to learn it with left!!what do you think abouth this???
Peter how you regulate the power in your legs when you play single and double strokes,to sound identical!!with practicin ;))))!
I play every day single and double strokes,but maybe i have to waithing more time,because the legs is need more time to practicing!!!
Peter i whant to talk more abouth open playing!!but i whant to open only hi-hats no ride cimbal!I want to play with 2 H.hats with 2 hi-hat foot pedals!!
What you think for Virgils Toms arrange?!!!12,10,16,18 and 14 on the left side?I very liked arrange my kit like a Virgil!!!

DRUMVARNA!!!!!

[peter]

DV,

Sorry that I have not responded until
now. I have been traveling a lot.

I'd be glad to talk about whatever
you'd like to discuss. Again, check out
the thread I linked you too, earlier.
Check out Billy Cobham's site too...

www.billycobham.com

...under We're Talking jazz. It's
always a hot topic.

I'm have recently converted to it
and have had a lot to say about
it. Of course, it's not been easy.

It HAS been rewarding, however.

Let's chat.

As for regulating the power of the
legs and feet, do what Virgil says
and learn all your patterns on both
feet. Really concentrate on your
double, working on accenting the
second-stroke, as in a samba,
just like you did with the right
foot. Everything is equal. :)

[DRUMVARNA]

Thenx Peter,you a very nice gye!!!and very helped to me!!!
I read to your meething with Virgil,and i see once him in Bulgaria,,when he bee in Bulgaria!!
I told you for my friend Dimitar,who be a guide to Virgil i n Bulgaria!!he is a best drummer in Bulgaria,and he play every Virgil paterns,and groovs and everything!!!and after the koncert i go to the back stage and see Virgil to talk with my friend and i say Helloy to Virgil and he say me Hi,it's not much but it good for me,because i hear first time VIrgil 6 monts ago before i see him,my friedn Dimitar waithing 5 years to see him!!!
i try to ripped one drum solo of him and send to you,but i dont know how,but i try to learn!!!
I dont have a power this days ,because i work in teh night and i'm so tired ,but after tomorow i started hard work with my kit!!!
man i very liked the Book"the New Breath"from Garry Chester!!he tlak about open playing,and play now this Book!!!
i try to play more doubles,because you play one hour every day,but my legs dont building one hour,and i play only 15 min.for now.but i whant to play more!!!and i played after couple of monts!!!i try to play cean doubles with accent on the second stroke!!!!
Chao for now!!
DRUMVARNA
pleace give me your mail to send you Dimitar old Kit,and one picture of Dimitar and Virgil!!
best regards!!!

[trebo70]

Hello Peter,

I am impressed with your work that I saw in your videos and what you have to say about drumming. Do you give in any drum lessons? I live in the Chicago area.
Tre

[peter]

Tre,

I'm flattered.

The truth is I don't give lessons,
not having the time but listen, I
will be glad to chat here with you
about anything that you'd like.

When a good show comes into
town, we'll get together. Mike
Mangini is coming in early Dec-
ember. Maybe that one...

[trebo70]

Sounds good,

I guess for now I'd settle with a few questions about what I saw in your videos.
First the grip that your using when you do your fast single stroke roles. I noticed that you grip the sticks with your index finger relaxed around the stick and not gripped around the stick. I tried that grip when I do my single stroke exercises and I noticed one thing. My pinky finger tends to hold on more and take part more in the grip. Though my singles sound a little more solid this way its more difficult for me to press on to faster tempos.
I guess what my question is do you ever reach a point when your doing your single stroke roles where you use strictly fingers or is it all wrist motion?

My next question is your use of flams when your doing your soloing. Virgil Donati does it and I've heard Dave Weckle do it as well. The only use of flams that I use when I'm soloing are swiss triplets and maybe a flam here or there based off of the syncopation exercises at a modest tempo. Do you have any advice or excercises to use to help build the use flams to add an extra flare to ones soloing?

thanks,
Tre

[peter]

Trebo70,

When I stroke, I am using mostly
my middle and ring-fingers. My
pinky is, almost always, NOT on
the stick. This is not to say that
the pinky can't be used. You can
train it to help and I would suggest
it, since it seems you are already
doing this. Billy Cobham does this
now, more than ever. Tony did this,
as well, though not most of the
time. Incidentally, he asked that
I do it in lesson.

I am using more of the fingers
as time goes on but remember
that lateral movement is working
against the control of the stick
and so they are not just making
the stick move but controlling the
stick, at the same time, if you get
my meaning.

Try and flam AS MUCH as you can.
They sound great and are great
training. The better you do them,
the better you single-strokes be-
come. Listen the greats flam, like
Tony Williams and Lenny White.
They are the "flam-kings".

The flam-tap and triplets are just
great for working up and adding
that "power-element" to your solo.
Another thing is to alternate drums
from the flam to single strokes, in
your triplet exercises. This is very,
very helpful.


Incidentally, they are essential for
your Latin. ESSENTIAL.

I hope that helps. :)

[DavidPartay]

Considering how difficult it is to learn to play flam taps cleanly (they're the ones that go lR R rL L lR R rL L aren't they?) I'd say they're a good exercise ;).

Note to self: work on more flams.

Oh, and swiss triplets are good fun too!

[DRUMVARNA]

Hi everyone!!
Trebo,i have one book for shnare drum where have a 500 exercize for flam beats!!i give you the name next time!this is good book for everything,single,doble triple and everystrokes!!

Hi PETER!!!
what is this video man?i dont undursteand everthing abouth how you taked your stiks because i dont know the name of the fingers in Inglish languich!!
i very like when Virgil play double strokes in 250 bmp in"POWER DRUMING"what do you say abouth it?i have problem to when i play sigles in fast tempo,i loose stiks some time!!;)))
man you are a lucky,because every great drummer in the world come to Chicago,in bulgaria goes only Manggini with Steve Vai,Horacia Fernandes with Patitucci,Simoh Pfilips with TOTO,and Virgil,thats all,whe dont have a new informacion from a long,long time!!I try to play double strokes for 15min every dai in slow tempo,because i whant to start from the bigining,and to make s very klean strokes!!i whant to play like you every day-1 hour!!and then to go play faster!what do you think about this?with hand i have a problem when i play doubles with acent to secont time in very fast tempo,exactley with left hand!
bye for now!!
DRUMVARNA

[DRUMVARNA]

Peter do you like Lenny White,because you spoke for him!!this is one of my favorite drummers!!i have a him concert in video tape,from Bulgaria!!

[peter]

My 3rd and 4th fingers do all the
work, DV. Look under Adam's
thread, on hand-speed, for the
paricular video in question.

You can work up to 250bpm
doubles, DV. Don't worry. Your
first goal should be 125bpm.
Go to 150, 175 and then 200 etc.

On Lenny White:

Of course, I do, DV!

He's one of the drummers which
created the foundation for Fusion,
during the 1970's.

His stuff with Return To Forever is
drumming history. :)

[quitou]

Hey Tre,
With regards to adding flams into your playing, you should check out http://www.houseofdrumming.com...Steve Holmes posted some video lessons ans one in particular that I think you might enjoy...he explains how to do a lick called the Blush-da, which has to do with swiss triplets....he also describes a bunch of other exercises to do to help buildup the blushda....I'm not sure if his video lessons are still up there, but you should definitely check it out.....he also posted some other lessons up there as well, all of which are very informative...

[quitou]

Sorry, the address is

http://www.houseofdrumming.com

[trebo70]

Thanks for the replys guys. I wish could return the favor with some advice as well but I don't have any other than to say that ever since I started doing the Virgil Donati power drumming workout my drumming has changed. I'm not a completely new drummer but I can definately say that I am a better drummer than I was a year ago. Its nice to look back and see the progress.

[peter]

Trebo70,

Virgil is not just a great drummer.
He makes everyone that listens
to him a greater drummer.

How's that for the T-Rex of the
drums!? He eats drumkits!

Remember what I said about cons-
cutive flams in that video and use
them everywhere you can. You are
on the way! :)

[pliploelheroe]

you should check out "Open handed playing", worked like charm on my left limbs...

briefly, just star playing some basic rithms inverting your hands (left hand playing the ostinato on the hh, left foot playing the bass drum, double pedal off course, you dont need to screw your right handed set)... you might want to lower your hh a bit for more control...

start with some basic stuff, then get pr0

you wont believe how much open handed playing may open your mind and give your left hand more participation


Gudvai

guido from argentina

[Rakk]

Originally posted by peter
DV,

I play left-hand ride on a right-handed
drumset.

*phew* my set up is even stranger: I am right-handed, play ride and hi hat with the left hand, snare with the right hand, and the toms go from low (left) to high (right) :D

[DRUMVARNA]

It's good Rakk!!!
I want to play like you with like your kit,but i need a time!!

[peter]

Yea , Rakk! That's different!

Power to you!

One of the things Virgil talks
about is starting your sticking
routines with the left-hand.

Up, down... Go every which
way! That's what V wants!

[peter]

OK, Rakk!

I just reversed my toms!!!

Now, I'm like the Rakk-man!

[Matias]

Originally posted by peter

One of the things Virgil talks
about is starting your sticking
routines with the left-hand.


That's my problem, i'm not a left handed player, but i begin all my fills with mi left hand, even in bassdrums i begin left foot, but not always, it's very strange, and now i'm working on starting fills with my right hand, because i found some negative points with my fill's playing around the kit with a smooth passage (I think what i writed won't make any sense to you, but i tried... i tried... :D ).

[DRUMVARNA]

Matias i find a negative points in my left and,i play a ride-hand kit,and that's the one point for me,to regulate the hands!i weaht to play with every hand and leg like the smae others!!

[peter]

Matias,

That's unusual but the important
thing is that we identify our weak
points and go from there. Most
players have no problem leading
with their right hands around the
drum. That's the way they were
taught to come back on the beat,
if they lead right. It's the opposite
with the left hand. For you, we
just have to turn things around. :)

[DRUMVARNA]

Peter you are so right!!