wtf !?!?!?!

[IronCobraMan]

http://www.theduallist.com/triple.html

its getting rediculous

[Matthias]

Really ridiculous! That's cheating!!!

[Espen]

Haha, i always thought something lame like this would come on the market. I thought they should have stopped on the Vruk pedal.

[frank]

Crap! I agree, that's cheating!
I wonder what it feels to play that thing? I mean, you'd be playing three notes in stead of 2, so to play 16th notes, you'd have to play triplets or sth..?

[DavidPartay]

I'm sure that's been available for ages now...

[Espen]

Yeah, i guess

[vdreignsuponus1]

yeah, it's not exactly new, but i laughed my balls off once i saw it!

[drummaman1]

pretty soon...we'll have a midget down there...we're tellin him to go

doogoodoogoodoogoodoogoodoogoodoogoo

dgdgdgdgdgdgdgdgdgdgdgdgd
ddgdgdgdgdgdgtktkdgdgdgdgdgdgtktkdgdgdgdgdgdgtktk

what?
midgets need work too!

All apologies to midgets, especially if they post here. I meant no offense.

[C.J.]

Where is this world going to?

[C.J.]

Seconds thoughts; that is exactly the same thing as the Sonor Giant Step twin FX double pedal. Only this one has three beaters.

[DD_Timekeeper]

Hey guys, don't you think that with all that beaters, the bass drum head will stop to vibrate at a certain speed? I think there's a physical limit to this... the more you increase speed, the more one kick stop the previous vibration... uhm... :confused:

[Funkifized]

"I saw a triple pedal once. It was totally unnecessary."

[frank]

This is getting insane..!

[drummaman1]

They're gonna bring back those oblong bass drums by Trixon so all those beaters can fit on the drum!!!!!!

[Fede]

It does come recommended by Tommy "J"..... (?????)

[Casey K]

Gay Gay Gay!!! :mad:

[hereswheristand]

"When I first saw it I was stunned - then I played it and was stunned - when the band heard it they were stunned - its stunning!"
Tommy 'J' -Session Drummer

sounds stunningly gay if you ask me

[cjcdrums]

How bout this: You apply the duallist "technology" to the Sonor Twin FX! That would make it a quadruple pedal! Then have one for each foot on two bass drums, and have Thomas Lang sit down for a little while... Octuple bass!

[frank]

Or if you have 3 bassdrums like Mike Portnoy does..

[drumsrule]

Damn man! I still have much to learn on ONE friggin pedal, and now this?

[marlos]

Take a look at the link triple duallist , to see what you can do with it !
Keep up the drumming guys http://www.edrums.gr/video.html
P

[wcm_ambas]

the dw pedals there is just edited!!! hahaha, but the dualist are really cheating!!!

[Markdude465]

Allow me to be the first to pollute this thread with the following cynnical, hypocritical, asinine comments:

There's no such thing as cheating; any unique technique, for that matter, could be considered cheating if there is such a thing; drumming is not a sport; it's about music, as long as you're a good musician, it doesn't matter what tools you use; raw chops don't mean a thing or get you anywhere in a musical career; I like lime coca-cola; my girlfriend dances in her underwear with a bannana loving chimp; the same old crap everybody has spent 5 or 6 pages worth of forum whining about; blah blah balh blah blah blah blah, etc. etc.

...nevermind, speed is all that matters, I forgot :D

And I'd just like to say that that (http://www.edrums.gr/video.html) is the most increadible thing I have witnessed in my entire fifteen years and nine months or so (minus four days) on this earth.

(oh, and is it gramatically correct to have that many semi-colons in a single run-on?)

[kirk]

They are a load of Crap whether you think it is cheating or not. Like my teacher from years ago said when I went for my college audition with my MASSIVE drumset in tow and found out that I would be playing on a simple 5 piece with a few cymbals. His exact words what the heck are you wasting your time with that oversize jungle set when you have not mastered and done all you can do on 4 or 5 pieces, it made sense to me anyway's and made me focus and apply myself to utilize the smaller set in it's completeness before I had any ideas of using a larger set. Have never needed a large set since than.

The fact is guy's like Virg, Vinnie, Weckl, Discenso, JoJo, Smith, Lang etc. can do SO MANY thing's on a five or 6 piece set that most cannot do on a 15 piece with 30 cymbal's. Why because they have FORCED! themselves to develope their technique and imagination to the highest level. Granted it is fine to play whatever you want however you want, but why? if you have not utilized the full potenial of something more practical. I have seen Virg do thing's with one kick, snare, hat, one floor tom and one cymbal that blew my mind. It further inspired me to use what I had instead of thinking more was better because it was not.

Kirk

[Markdude465]

[...] what the heck are you wasting your time with that oversize jungle set when you have not mastered and done all you can do on 4 or 5 pieces, it made sense to me anyway's and made me focus and apply myself to utilize the smaller set in it's completeness before I had any ideas of using a larger set. Have never needed a large set since th .:E:. n.

[...]guy's like Virg [...] etc. can do SO MANY thing's on a five or 6 piece [...]that most cannot do on a 15 piece [...] because they have FORCED! themselves to develope their technique and imagination to the highest level...

Good point, I agree whole-heartedly.

For the sake of arguement, though (and/or just plain being assinine (I love that word) :D ), what is completeness? What is the highest level? Does it exist? (and for that matter, does anything? (woah... :eek: cosmic)) Point being... um...

:confused: What was my point? :confused:

Ah, yes, everything is a paridox, and nothing means anything. :D

(I'm inspired to make a generic philosophy thread (I always am, but I think I'll actually do it this time))

[kirk]

Oh please not the EVERYTHING is subjective boloney :p I do think there are distinguishable traits whether good or bad as it concerns most anything and that involves music. Can we tell the difference between a GOOD single stroke compared to a BAD one sure we can. Are there clear and evident traits to being a well rounded player sure there are, just like there are clear traits when you are NOT a well rounded player. Ask any artist who you get hired by to do studio work if they can tell the difference between a COMPLETE player and one who is not. Or I should say DO NOT ever tell someone who hires you that there is no way to tell if one has or does not have the ability to do the job. Probably will not have that gig very long. ;)

Kirk

[cjcdrums]

Oh please not the EVERYTHING is subjective boloney :p I do think there are distinguishable traits whether good or bad as it concerns most anything and that involves music. Can we tell the difference between a GOOD single stroke compared to a BAD one sure we can. Are there clear and evident traits to being a well rounded player sure there are, just like there are clear traits when you are NOT a well rounded player. Ask any artist who you get hired by to do studio work if they can tell the difference between a COMPLETE player and one who is not. Or I should say DO NOT ever tell someone who hires you that there is no way to tell if one has or does not have the ability to do the job. Probably will not have that gig very long. ;)

Kirk
Well put. ;)

[Markdude465]

Oh please not the EVERYTHING is subjective boloney [...]

Well, if you say so... but really...

What is subjective baloney? :D

Ya know, it still takes a level of intimacy with the instrument to be able to pull off anything worth hearing on one of those dualist dealies. I mean, you don't hear a good fill, and go "yeah, well, anybody can do that with two hands." Ya know? If it sounds cool, whatever gets the job done. That's my position.

[GreenPremier]

This is getting insane..!

That's frickin' HILARIOUS!!! I seriously laughed for a good minute, the DW picture that is. :D

[KarnEvil]

Why not just make a machine that does the doudle bass playing for you, you just press a button and adjust the speed with a dial. Its not cheating though. :mad:

[drummaman1]

money talks, and bull**** walks, people...

if you pay, you can play...those pedals, I mean.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE Sonor Designer series drums. they are the best!
Can I afford them??? Not in this lifetime, I'm afraid...but I digress.

We have what we have, and make the best MUSIC we can with what we have.
There...is that existential enough for ya?? :p :)

[vdreignsuponus1]

well, if the drummer of green day ever decided that he wanted to play double bass but didnt wanna practice, that's the pedal for him!

[CarpathiasRise]

"I saw a triple pedal once. It was totally unnecessary." was that a mitch hedburg reference? =)

[Funkifized]

Yeah. If he was around here, he'd make some great, great jokes about that thing.

[sirmillardmulch]

Really ridiculous! That's cheating!!!

It's really not cheating at all. It's just another tool to use to create music in a new way. These types of things should be used on more than just bass drums. If you can think outside a traditional kick / snare / drum fill / crash framework, this opens a lot of possibilities. Drums and pedals can be used more orchestrally, instead of the meathead drumset rock n' roll manner.

-Sir Millard Mulch

[sirmillardmulch]

Why not just make a machine that does the doudle bass playing for you, you just press a button and adjust the speed with a dial. Its not cheating though. :mad:

I am reading very negative, narrow-minded, limited comments about this new tool that we can use to be creative. It's not about the tools or even the person using them (ultimately, the musician is just another tool [in both senses of the word] to serve the music)... the goal is to make something BEAUTIFUL. You are all just getting defensive because you only see rapid-fire double-bass technique like Virgil's as a novelty and not as a real, valid part of music. It would be easy to play a bunch of bass drum patterns with your hands like an orchestra musician does, and it would accomplish the same thing. Would that take away from the music just because it wasn't as hard to play as it was with your feet? Is music only valid if it's hard to play? That's silly. Virgil is a very accomplished musician and uses his body to create as much music as he can. On the drum tracks he sent me for my album, it was not about speed / flashiness / showing off his dexterity -- it was polyrhymic mental hell -- creating something musical that is beyond technique. I am still trying to decipher all of the nuances of the patterns he improvised over 13/16. If you get just obsessed with technique and tools you forget why we are really here. Don't limit yourself as to what drum can be played in what manner, that is closed-minded. There are many ways to play an instrument, especially something as variable and modular as percussion. You can move the drums and cymbals and devices in any configuration you can imagine and build the most unusual contraptions for executing your creation, from a simple hand drum all the way to something like the S.S. Bozzio or these pedals we are talking about. Free yourself from these arbitrary conventions and break the rules. The bass drum doesn't have to be played with your feet or even with pedals. After all, it originally wasn't. Be creative. Have fun with it.

-Mulch.

[kirk]

I think with most drummer's and other musicians it is not about the fact that you can or cannot use gadgets and machines to be creative, you can but the fact that if it is the machine or gadget instead of you is doing most of the work than the easy route was taken.I do not see Frank Gambale using a machine that he can hook up to his guitar that pull's the pick back and forth rapidly so he can sweep faster or a other's using machine to do the thinking for them. Most accomplished musicians want to DO! the work with limited help from the instrument. The instrument is their to produce sound but WE! with our own bodies and mind's have to coax the sound out of the instrument not have a machine there to do most of the work for us. We feel like we are truly accomplishing something with out bodies and brain's when we have to push ourselves to do the work. Virg has said openly that he does not need 8 toms and 30 cymbals and 6 pedals to accomplish what he does because he has challenged himself and succeeded to do it with less and in the end it was him who did the work with his body and mind not someone or something else.
But I get what your saying just do not agree with some of it and that is cool. ;)
Kirk

[Ludwig]

Wohaha huhuhuh hohoho!!!!!! That's a good one!!! Oh yeah!!!

[Smirnoff]

Did you guys see that video that was posted earlier in that thread? It really didn't sound all that great, I don't think... I much prefer the way Thomas Lang uses both heel up and heel down methods to embellish double bass phrases with additional dynamics.

[frank]

That's frickin' HILARIOUS!!! I seriously laughed for a good minute, the DW picture that is. :D

:D:D Paint is probably the greatest thing ever to come with Windows! hehe
.. :)

[duggano]

got to say to earlier posts in here how is it cheating any more than a double pedal? Just cos a double pedal is more established, in 20 years a triple pedal may be the norm! I mean in the 70's kits came as a 4 piece, now the standard is a 5 piece....

Also who needs these anyway, buddy rich made a single bass pedal sound better than any double bass pedallist ive ever heard!

[kirk]

A double pedal is the same as 2 kick's, it is no easier to play just more convinient. In fact some of the GREAT! double pedal guy's will tell you they can achieve more speed with 2 kicks but the double pedal is more practical as far as setup is concerned.

Kirk

[duggano]

ah well, ive got a vintage premier that does the job of any of these fancy eliminators of 5000's! :D

[Drumcanman]

Haha, i always thought something lame like this would come on the market. I thought they should have stopped on the Vruk pedal.

Please don't mix the dualist and the Vruk in the same sentence.
The Vruk was invented in the early 80's and is just an attachment for your existing pedal for drummers with big feet you can use the vruk to lengthen the pedal.
The Vruk does not cheat the notes you still have to be able to play the notes.
Go to www.vrukpedal.com and you will see the new video clip explaining the vruk.
Hope this helps and God Bless
Tim Waterson www.drumcanman.com

[sirmillardmulch]

The Vruk does not cheat the notes you still have to be able to play the notes.


Oh yeah? Well using a pedal AT ALL is cheating! I use my bare feet to kick the heads, how do you like that? I don't need a pedal to play the notes for me. I actually grab each drum or cymbal with both hands and smash it right into my face -- I don't even need drum sticks, that's for wimps who don't want to get hurt! I also don't use a drum throne, I just squat down martial-arts style and this allows me the greatest efficiency of motion! If anyone thinks they can do better than me then I will give them $500 right here and now!

-Mulch.

[vdreignsuponus1]

......wtf?

[frank]

......wtf?

Yeah, WTF?!?

[johngregson]

This thread has become delightfully surreal.

[Funkifized]

He's just trying to say that anything can be considered cheating... it's just the way you look at it.

[sirmillardmulch]

I am very taken aback by the amount of narrow-mindedness on this topic of "the implementation of tools to create a work of art." If you are going to see music as ONLY a physical sport, I can understand this. However, music is not ONLY a sport (although it is VERY athletic and demanding). The goal of all physical motions in this particular artform is to cause MUSIC to occur, not to deem physical motions as an end in themselves. If we are going to judge a musician solely by how fast his feet can wiggle, we should just get rid of pedals and drums and start having single-stroke tap-dancing competitions. Why mislabel the process as music?

We don't build a building so we can marvel at the tools we used.

-Mulch.

[kirk]

No we marvel when mere man can take simple tools and accomplish much with it. Same as the musician. When a drummer can take the basic tools and accomplish the same and MORE! compared to someone who used all the tools needed to make the work easy than what do we marvel at. I think most marvel at the first. Let us take Michael Jordan he achieved what he did through hard work, discipline and imagination. He could of used jet's in his shoes to shoot him up in the air or gadget's to make him shoot better, no he did it himself. Same with a great chef who has to use his hands and mind to create something fresh and new not punch in his idea of what he wants to create into a computer so it can tell him exactly what to do without his involvment.

We might as well use machines that do all the work on their own if all we are is trying to create something the easiest way possible. Why marvel at that I sure don't. Why do we marvel at Virg or Vinnie or others etc. because THEY! created what was born out of the hard work, we do not marvel at the gadget's or instruments used. They used not only their bodies but just as important their minds and hearts, the drums are just a basic tool. If machines are used just to cut corners why get excited. Like it or not we marvel at who and how they accomplished what they did not just what was made. In fact what was made loses relevance if we find out the person had little involvment.

When we go watch someone perform we are moved by the performance, the fact that these guy's worked real hard to incorporate their bodies, minds, and emotions to get to the highest level. If we know that a gadget did it all with very little human involvment, speaking for musicians the interest would be lost. Next time I go see Virg live I hope he does not say hey I got a bunch of new equipment that let's me just sit here and push buttons and eat a ham sandwich at the same time but the sound's will be the same, hope you guy's like it. NOPE we will not for the reasons above. We are amazed at the Sistine Chapel because of the fact that HE Michael A. achieved what was created as much if not more than what is actually there. He a mere man did what he did at a time when it seemed impossible and the tools compard to today were primitive it is mindblowing to think he alone did that with basically nothing.
Now that is something to marvel at, not just what he did but what he had to go through to do it and the meager means at his disposal.

Kirk

[sirmillardmulch]

Yes. If you want to be so absurd to think three kick beaters is CHEATING but two IS NOT, why not get rid of these simple tools providing leverage (pedals) altogether and just use your bare feet to kick the heads? It would be much more amazing and respectable if a drummer was able to get the same kind of attack and precision that Virgil can get WITHOUT CHEATING BY USING PEDALS. Furthermore, get rid of the drum throne -- those are for LAZY people. Much more incredible to see someone achieving the kind of control and stamina that Virgil can get, but WITHOUT CHEATING BY SITTING DOWN! Get rid of drum sticks, too. And drum keys. A real drummer should be able to do more with less, right?

This argument you are using is as funny as saying, "Guitars shouldn't be able to have more than one string, because barre chords are just making it too easy to play too many notes at once," or "singers should not be allowed to use a P.A., they should be able to sing loud enough without them," or "bassists should not need to play through a compressor, all of their notes should naturally just be at all the perfect volumes," or "People shouldn't have to read manuscript, they should just be able to hear and remember every note they should play," or "I have no imagination and I am scared of things changing, so I cling to whatever tradition has been presented to me."

-Mulch.

[cjcdrums]

Mulchie has got some really good points. If you break it down, every tool we use as a drummer is an innovation to make creating music easier/better.

Do you guys consider the Sonor Twin FX pedal cheating? You do have to physically PLAY each note...?

Sir Millard, I believe the reason that most of us consider it cheating is because of all the damn hard work that each of us has put into it becomes wasted once something like this shows up.

[kirk]

You sound like you just want to be different no matter how absurd it seems to be. I think my arguments about athletes or artists are sound but that is the problem your arguments are just getting outlandish. Heck let's just do away with pedals as we know them and make a trigger with 10 pedals and we can just hit the trigger and get the sound of ten pedals without working at it. I actually think REAL musicians do not detest the idea of having to work hard to achieve their goals, to me that is the point but whatever floats your boat whatever makes it easier for you to do what you want.

The points you made about guitars and singers does not make sense because they still have TO DO the work it is not easier to sing to have a P.A. you still cannot suck in fact the P.A. will make your mistakes stand out more. And having a transcript does not mean that you still do not have to work your behind off to remember every word. Did guitars start off as one string instruments or with 6 string's so there I do not get your argument. The idea of bar chords would not exist with one string so I do not think someone said BOY!! bar chords are hard to play on one string because they did not exist. I think my points about athletes and artists make total sense. What really is your point? To do away with traditions just because one can or to make thing's as simple as possible to accomplish.

I would be interested to hear Virgil's take on this. He might say do whatever floats your boat but I have a sense he would do things the way he has been doing them. In fact look at his use of sky tom's. The way he employ's them makes it HARDER to do what he is actually pulling off, he could set them in different positions to make it much easier but maybe that is part of the reason he is doing it he always likes the challenge. Again he wants to see if HE! can do it not the device for him.

I hear what your saying Sir Millard and respect it just do not agree with most of it. But am looking forward to hearing your work with Virg.

Regards Kirk

[sirmillardmulch]

What is my point? My points are these:

1.) We should welcome new tools and technology that can be employed to create art.
2.) Just because something is harder to do doesn't make it better.
3.) This Triple Pedal can be put to other creative rhythmic uses, not just used for sheer speed. If machine-gunning triplets is the only thing you can think of to do with it, that's your fault.
4.) Virgil is not merely a physical athlete.
5.) Dog Boots, in its 32nd-note double-stroke glory, is fun to listen to.
6.) The people who are complaining about a third pedal are just as closed-minded and boring as the people who complain about a second pedal.
7.) You have no sense of humor.
8.) The triple pedal (same as the double pedal) is not just about speed and making things easier.
9.) Tradition is nothing but a repeated pattern consisting of what everyone has done before.
10.) Stringed instruments did indeed begin with only one string, and no frets. Frets (allowing you to play every note perfectly in tune [CHEATING!]) and multiple strings (allowing you to play 6 strings just as easy as 1 [CHEATING!]) were added on later. Stretching a string between two points and plucking it, then using an object as a slide to alter the frequency of the vibrations, then adding a fingerboard, then adding frets, then adding more strings is the manner in which stringed instruments are developed. Imagine yourself as the inventor (Pythagoras?) and go through the steps in your mind. See how fun that is?
11.) Using new technology to create art rigidly defined by tradition is not cheating, it's STUPID.
12.) I am expecting more imagination out of Virgil Donati / Planet X fans.

-Mulch.

[C.J.]

Sir Millard we get your point, but I believe it is up to each one of us to decide what we think of this pedal. We are not going to fight over this are we?

I believe it's just a question of personal preference...

Respect,
Chris.

[kirk]

Let's just burn our instruments and beat eachother up since we have been wasting our time it seems doing it the way we have been doing it. It Is all cheating it seems WOW!! we have wasted our time and we have not even known it. I better start letting musicians and other people know about this, my eyes have been open. :D Anyway's I have wasted enough of my time with this, you think what you think and I believe what I believe simple as that. Now to get back to wasting my time and being close minded and will enjoy every minute doing it.

By the way you keep on saying Virgil is more than an athlete my point EXACTLY, when our tools are not over the top and do not make thing's so easy to accomplish what we desire it takes ALOT more imagination, discipline,patience and passion of the heart and mind to accomplish greatness, when it is made MUCH easier to accomplish by design are we stretched within as before not IMO. Like I said does Virg want to work his heart mind and body to do what he does or does he want the amazing new products to make the make the work MUCH easier for him to accomplish his goals. In reality the trap set has changed VERY little since it's conception, yes the quality is better but the components are very much the SAME as when it first was truly created. You still have to WORK REAL HARD in all aspects to get somewhere, and I believe most of the great jazz, rock musicians etc. would not change a thing. And Planet X fan's and Virg fan's alike like the CHALLENGE and WORK ethic of the mind body and spirit that it takes to get to a high level, that is why they are X fan's.

So when is your recording actually being released? so my pathetic self can purchase it to hear what Virg has contributed.


Regards Kirk

[sirmillardmulch]

So when is your recording actually being released? so my pathetic self can purchase it to hear what Virg has contributed.

I think you have already been insulted enough by enduring my internet ramblings! You've been a good sport, so let me send you one when I get the promotional copies. Got an address?

P.S. It is set to be released in July on Mimicry Records.

-Mulch.

[cjcdrums]

I've been a good sport too! j/k :p

[C.J.]

That's the kind of ending I like :)

[kirk]

I do not feel insulted at all. My convictions get aroused ;) but I do not have hard feeling's toward anyone, why should I you did not attack me personally. It is fine to debate I do not have a problem with it. Some guy's get insulted right away. As long as the debate is cordial and someone is not cussing me up one side of the wall and down the other I am cool. You shared your belief's intently but you did not become derogatory either and that is cool, I appreciate that. We need to discuss thing's without being so fragile.I will P.M. my address to you.

Thank's for your generousity SirMillardMulch, I appreciate it, look forward to the album.

Regards Kirk

[James G.]

ahoy sir Mulch!
how about hooking me up with a demo c.d too?
I have to cofess that your music is not readily available on the irish market but with a name like that you must be good
sorry to eat into your royalties
I am telepathically sending you good karma right now
god speed good sir

[sirmillardmulch]

Dear James G.,

I can not promise anything, but I will see what I can do.

Please PM me your mailing address and I will place it into a pool of Irish Promotional Considerations. Of course, I am a very generous person, and if someone is willing to support my cause I do what I can to make sure they are taken care of.

However, let it be known that these are not demo CDs we are talking about. These are the full manufactured, record label approved products -- which I will have a large stack of for sharing with deserving participants.

You're lucky I'm nutty.

-Sir Millard Mulch.

[johngregson]

Paul, I'm looking forward to the album!
The stuff I've heard from your site sounds and looks great.
From one axe-wrangler to another...
Best,
John.

[marlos]

take a look at the web site www.edrums.gr , to watch the video "the ostinato" , to see some multipedal ostinatos using the Duallist! I dont think that's cheating !!!
What do you think?




http://www.theduallist.com/triple.html

its getting rediculous

[marlos]

I have been using the duallist pedals for many months now, and you can see the results in a polyrhythmic / multipedal solo titeled the ostinato at my web site www.edrums.gr . I think the pedal is incredible and MUCH MUCH easier than the twin effect that Thomas Lang uses .

Cheers Panos

[grandpascorpion]

Amazing work!

[toteman2]

My take...

If you consider using a triple peadal cheating, then you in effect consider a double pedal cheating...I've heard double pedal players play things a single pedal player could only dream of playing or are physically impossible...The same goes with the triple pedal compared to the double...I for one don't consider a triple pedal cheating, and why anyone would is just a case of them not thinking about it...I don't really ever plan on buying one though...Double is already hard enough...

[toteman2]

Yes. If you want to be so absurd to think three kick beaters is CHEATING but two IS NOT, why not get rid of these simple tools providing leverage (pedals) altogether and just use your bare feet to kick the heads? It would be much more amazing and respectable if a drummer was able to get the same kind of attack and precision that Virgil can get WITHOUT CHEATING BY USING PEDALS. Furthermore, get rid of the drum throne -- those are for LAZY people. Much more incredible to see someone achieving the kind of control and stamina that Virgil can get, but WITHOUT CHEATING BY SITTING DOWN! Get rid of drum sticks, too. And drum keys. A real drummer should be able to do more with less, right?

This argument you are using is as funny as saying, "Guitars shouldn't be able to have more than one string, because barre chords are just making it too easy to play too many notes at once," or "singers should not be allowed to use a P.A., they should be able to sing loud enough without them," or "bassists should not need to play through a compressor, all of their notes should naturally just be at all the perfect volumes," or "People shouldn't have to read manuscript, they should just be able to hear and remember every note they should play," or "I have no imagination and I am scared of things changing, so I cling to whatever tradition has been presented to me."

-Mulch.



The point made...

[Filipinodrummer]

That's such a gay ass pedal and hell yeah that's cheating whoever thought of that was a pure dumbass and was hella lazy!!

[cjcdrums]

Thank you so much for your contribution.

[The_Setite]

What is my point? My points are these:

1.) We should welcome new tools and technology that can be employed to create art.
2.) Just because something is harder to do doesn't make it better.
3.) This Triple Pedal can be put to other creative rhythmic uses, not just used for sheer speed. If machine-gunning triplets is the only thing you can think of to do with it, that's your fault.
4.) Virgil is not merely a physical athlete.
5.) Dog Boots, in its 32nd-note double-stroke glory, is fun to listen to.
6.) The people who are complaining about a third pedal are just as closed-minded and boring as the people who complain about a second pedal.
7.) You have no sense of humor.
8.) The triple pedal (same as the double pedal) is not just about speed and making things easier.
9.) Tradition is nothing but a repeated pattern consisting of what everyone has done before.
10.) Stringed instruments did indeed begin with only one string, and no frets. Frets (allowing you to play every note perfectly in tune [CHEATING!]) and multiple strings (allowing you to play 6 strings just as easy as 1 [CHEATING!]) were added on later. Stretching a string between two points and plucking it, then using an object as a slide to alter the frequency of the vibrations, then adding a fingerboard, then adding frets, then adding more strings is the manner in which stringed instruments are developed. Imagine yourself as the inventor (Pythagoras?) and go through the steps in your mind. See how fun that is?
11.) Using new technology to create art rigidly defined by tradition is not cheating, it's STUPID.
12.) I am expecting more imagination out of Virgil Donati / Planet X fans.

-Mulch.


Id like to add this...
If you can "cheat" at music then there must be some way to "win" at music....id like to know how....... kirk????

[cheezruff]

i draw the line at programmed and karioke forms of entertainment. I have no objection when used as accompinament, but have limited appreciation as live entertainment.

[schecter diamon]

I've tried this, I don't consider it cheating as much as it's just a tool for things you couldn't normally do on a double pedal. The only thing that I think it makes easier is like 16th note double bass rolls.