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jimi
08-24-2003, 03:09 AM
Virgil Name only appears once as a runner up. Whats with that?

http://www.geocities.com/fuoco02ie/1.jpg

Got this from www.dannycarey.org, he has a few clinics coming up in the US from September just to let you know.

Me.2
08-24-2003, 06:36 AM
I never take much notice of those polls or the mag ones anyway.

It had vinnie colaiuta in the clinic section. sadly i've had two sets of tickets for vinnies uk clinics but due to circumstances he's failed to appear. This yr he could have come over but hasnt and there he is in the best clinician category.

Its laughable,...weckl got best jazz player! yeah.....right.

jimi
08-24-2003, 09:30 AM
What do they base these results on? I dont care much for polls either but this one is just so ridiculous i had to post it!

quitou
08-24-2003, 10:31 AM
The polls are based on votes by the readers of the magazine. Some of the categories are quite accurate I would say, but some look kind of strange. I think the reason why virgil doesn't appear a lot is because he is still relatively unknown to the majority of people, and he isn't what I would call a mainstream drummer (ie. a drummer playing in a mainstream band that gets played on MTV, etc.) If you look at the results, a lot of the drummers are guys who play in famous bandsand thus get more exposure to the general drumming public.

As for Weckl getting best jazz drummer, not a big surprise to me...after all weckl is trained as a jazz drummer and that's what he played the majority of the time in ihs youth...when he first got discovered it was as a Jazz drummer and lets not forget his first MAJOR gig was with chick corea, one of the jazz greats...lately I'll admit weckl plays a lot more fusion kinda stuff, but I'm pretty sure he got best jazz drummer because recetly chick corea has been having reunion concerts and Weckl is one of the drummers playing with him. Thus, he's been playing alotr of Jazz lately...and lets not forget, jazz is a very broad category which encompasses as a lot of subcategories, many of which I'm sure Weckl excels in.

Me.2
08-24-2003, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by quitou
The polls are based on votes by the readers of the magazine. Some of the categories are quite accurate I would say, but some look kind of strange.

err....strange would be an understatement


I think the reason why virgil doesn't appear a lot is because he is still relatively unknown to the majority of people, and he isn't what I would call a mainstream drummer (ie. a drummer playing in a mainstream band that gets played on MTV, etc.)

That would explain dave weckls/dennis chambers/elvin jones/ jack dejohnettes MTV appearances quitou.



If you look at the results, a lot of the drummers are guys who play in famous bandsand thus get more exposure to the general drumming public.

If you look at the results they suck! the results are for drummers,......who hasnt heard the name Donati? Only the deaf mules who voted



As for Weckl getting best jazz drummer, not a big surprise to me...after all weckl is trained as a jazz drummer and that's what he played the majority of the time in ihs youth...when he first got discovered it was as a Jazz drummer and lets not forget his first MAJOR gig was with chick corea, one of the jazz greats...

I could be wrong but i understood peter erskine helped dave out and his first gig which was for a FUSION band with michel camilo called french toast? His FIRST real major gig would have been The Paul simon tour and then i believe steve khans production of Bill connors Step it album


lately I'll admit weckl plays a lot more fusion kinda stuff, but I'm pretty sure he got best jazz drummer because recetly chick corea has been having reunion concerts and Weckl is one of the drummers playing with him. Thus, he's been playing alotr of Jazz lately...and lets not forget, jazz is a very broad category which encompasses as a lot of subcategories, many of which I'm sure Weckl excels in.

jazz is broad but to me weckl whos drumming I LOVE (to me) is more a fusion player than a jazz player. I'd term jack dejohnette as jazz...Jeff watts...Bill stewart as jazz.
Name daves last straight ahead jazz cd?

Whats the Point in seperate categories? It sucks! The chick core gig was fusion too.

peter
08-24-2003, 01:38 PM
"Tain" should have won for best Jazz.

quitou
08-24-2003, 02:20 PM
Peace Me.2,

I agree Virg should be mentioned way more, and definitely win in a few categories...as for Dennis Chambers, I did see him on MTV quite a bit this last year (he plays for santana) not just on videos but also live performances. As for the other guys you mentioned...they've been around here longer than Virg has...The results are from DRUM magazine which is an American magazine, and virg is still relatively new to the american scene...but yes, I agree he should receive way more votes and I bet in the years to come as more people hear of him, he will begin to clean up in these polls.

And yes, even though Jack Dejonhette, Dave weckl, Elvin Jones don't show up on MTV, the following guys who were mentioned are:
Danny Carey (TOOL), Travis Barker (Blink182), Carter Beauford (Dave Mathews Band), Chad Smith (RHCP), Max Weinberg (not on MTV but he is the drummer for The Max Weinberg 7 which plays on Late Night with Conan O'Brian), Scott Phillips (Creed), Rob Bourdan (likin park), Abr laboriel jr. (plays and tours with Paul McCartney), Adrian Young (No Doubt)Joey Jordison (Slipknot), Vinnie Paul (Pantera), Lars Ulrich (Metallica), and on, and on...

And Yes, dave weckl did have some big gigs before chick corea, but still ONE of his first big gigs was with Chick...and Chick's electric Band Music is more fusion, but the acoustic band stuff is as pretty damn close to straight ahead jazz as you'll get.

And even though weckl has not been a prominent player on many jazz cd's of late, he has done sessions for tons of jazz stars and big bands...Natalie Cole, to name one of many...

But I do agree that others may have deserved to win in the jazz category (like peter said, I don't think there is a better jazz player out there noe than Jeff Watts), but it is hardly laughable that a drummer with Weckl's track record win for jazz...

Me.2
08-25-2003, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by quitou
Peace Me.2,

Agreed quitou :)

I agree Virg should be mentioned way more, and definitely win in a few categories...as for Dennis Chambers, I did see him on MTV quite a bit this last year (he plays for santana) not just on videos but also live performances.

Yes,... but thats a Pop/rock category quitou. But Dennis is in the jazz and fusion categories.


As for the other guys you mentioned...they've been around here longer than Virg has...The results are from DRUM magazine which is an American magazine, and virg is still relatively new to the american scene...

Most americans have heard of virg, infact he was friends with Jeff porcaro so i've read, and sat in on toto rehearsals. Now Jeffs been deceased (RIP) for 10yrs quitou.
Virg is well known and so are the players he's played with, these polls dont reflect whether he's known or not. Virgils Modern drummer magazine video was from 1997,..thats 6 yrs ago,...can you really say the americans havent heard of him? His vids been on sale in the drum shops and over the internet or 6 yrs!.

And Yes, dave weckl did have some big gigs before chick corea, but still ONE of his first big gigs was with Chick...and Chick's electric Band Music is more fusion, but the acoustic band stuff is as pretty damn close to straight ahead jazz as you'll get.

Yes the acoustic chick cds are Jazz but the majority of daves playing with the ELEKTRIK band [notice the NAME ] is fusion,.... but that was yrs ago quitou the acoustic stuff.... and THATS the point.

And even though weckl has not been a prominent player on many jazz cd's of late, he has done sessions for tons of jazz stars and big bands...Natalie Cole, to name one of many...

And a couple of sessions would equate to an award?

How INSULTING is that to the other jazz players who have dedicated themselves to their art in ONE field of it for years?

Theres a fantastic amount of straight jazz players out there quitou who would be more WORTHY of that award. What you have to realise is that some people just RANDOMLY fill those forms out without any notion whatsoever of who they are voting for,.... and take a name that seems familiar and just fill that box with an X or tick.


But I do agree that others may have deserved to win in the jazz category (like peter said, I don't think there is a better jazz player out there noe than Jeff Watts), but it is hardly laughable that a drummer with Weckl's track record win for jazz...

It is when he's not playing jazz but is playing fusion, .. it equates to Dennis chambers winning a Latin award. He might have played a session but that doesnt mean you should win an award for it. Peace quitou.

jimi
08-25-2003, 02:29 AM
I would agree that Virg should be known well enough in the american community by now but who's to say i suppose.
I'm not a seasoned drum fan so i wouldn't know exactly have a real opinion as to what is right and wrong in each category.
We all know Virg isnt getting the recognition he should but i think his popularity is growing steadily and its not something to freak out about.
just thought you guys might be interested in the results, not that they mean much to anyone, even the drummers themselves.

kirk
08-25-2003, 09:02 AM
Drum magazine caters to a different crowd than Modern Drummer.
Check out who is on the cover from week to week on Drum compared to Modern Drummer. Alot more appreciation for Virgil and other drummers similar to him in Modern Drummer. Much moe coverage of Alternative/Punk/Nu-Metal/Etc drummers in Drum catering to the younger crowd. Once in Awhile you get a real worthy drummer as a main feature. And of course they vote for Dave and Dennis they are much more established have been for years and well it is who is known, so they vote. Not that Dave and Dennis are not worthy because they are for sure they are just a much more known commodity and so it is what comes to mind more quickly, but Virg is definitely becoming a bigger name, has been featured quite abit in Modern Drummer, Stick, and every other big drum publication around the world. Has been on the cover twice of Modern Drummer that is Big-Time, they carry more weight than Drum. The coverage matters alot more than the goofy polls, that is for sure.

Kirk

quitou
08-25-2003, 09:52 AM
Hey Kirk,
That's basically what I was trying to say above...I guess I'm just not as good with words as you are...

jimi
08-25-2003, 10:13 AM
Wise Kirk, always good to hear from you:) and i hope you are feeling better too??

Hip Alien
08-26-2003, 02:46 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Me.2
[B]I never take much notice of those polls or the mag ones anyway.

It had vinnie colaiuta in the clinic section. sadly i've had two sets of tickets for vinnies uk clinics but due to circumstances he's failed to appear. This yr he could have come over but hasnt and there he is in the best clinician category.

Don't forget, that he probably did a clinic tour outside of the UK. I think 'Vinnie' could still handle the 'Best Fusion or Electric Jazz' category.

Me.2
08-26-2003, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by Hip Alien
[QUOTE]


Don't forget, that he probably did a clinic tour outside of the UK. I think 'Vinnie' could still handle the 'Best Fusion or Electric Jazz' category.
He probably has done a few clinics here and there states wise.

In the last two yrs Vinnie has had two WORLD tours for zildjian to do,....both tours cancelled one due to the 9/11 incident and the second apparantly due to his mothers health. BOTH understandable reasons for cancelling the tours.
For some unknown reason the tour hasnt come off this year and yet,... there was more than enough time for a clinic tour to be organised. Infact,...i think its pretty DISRESPECTFUL of vinnie not to complete it after having fans buy tickets two yrs in a row only to be dissapointed. Valid reasons or not. For not coming over this yr he sucks on the Clinic front in my eyes. :p

Vinnie could fill any category,...he's a chameleon,..... and a rat for not coming over to the uk. :) Heartbreaking it is i tell ya,......heartbreaking!