PDA

View Full Version : death metal drumming


8===8
08-18-2003, 02:22 PM
i'm not a drummer so i would like to ask you a question:
is death/thrash metal drumming so difficult as it sometimes sounds?You listen to it and think that sometimes the guy blasts the hell out of him. But perhaps most of the time it's not something exceptional, it's just fast 4/4. What do you think?

Fede
08-18-2003, 03:45 PM
When it comes to deathmetal and thrash you need to be able to tell good metal from bad metal.

I'm generally not the biggest fan of burst-/blastbeats, though it really depends on who's playing it. Sometimes it's more noisy and tiring than at other times. I think it depends very much on how well played it is. If it's 100% tight and the sound makes it possible to hear what's going on, I can sometimes enjoy - something I once thought impossible.

Right now there are only three people in the world I can think of that can play burstbeats the way I like'em:

Danish drummer Reno Killerich whom can be heard on "Exmortem: Berzerker Legions" and two PanzerChrist albums. (220-260 BPM, 100% tight)

American legend Derek Roddy from Malevolent Creation, Divine Empire and now Hate Eternal (220-260 BPM, 99.9% tight)

Swedish drummer Peter Weiner whom I only know from a Swedish band called Luciferion with an album called "The Manifest" (I think)

Oh, and then the one and only Gene Hoglan has been doing some semi-blasting on the latest "Strapping Young Lad" albums (Devin Townsend-based project) which sounds cool, but not as fast as "real" blastbeats...

But still, it's a bit of a weird way to spend your drumming time... I can't stop wondering what incredible uses this amazing skill could be put to. How on Earth do you train yourself up to start and to play burstbeats at 250 BPM at will, 100% convincing???

Especially thrash drumming can be extremely difficult. Check out stuff like:

Death - Symbolic (Gene Hoglan, 1995)
Death - The Sound of Persavearance (Richard Christy, 1998)
Meshuggah - Destroy, Erase, Improve (Thomas Haake, 1995)
Dim Mak - Enter the Dragon (Brandon Thomas, 1999)

These are good examples of very difficult and well-performed thrash / metal and not just fast 4/4 (and great albums besides, IMO).

jimi
08-18-2003, 03:50 PM
Amazing control and stamina is all i can say because i dont have any death metal albums. I know someone who plays the stuff and he's very good within that idiom.
i'll try check out some of the albums you mentioned fede.

STAVROPOULOS
08-20-2003, 07:31 AM
hello all!!
hey 8!i used to listen fanatically to extreme metal 3 years ago.now i have collected some nice bands that play very cool songs!i agree with fede's opinion about the tightness of the idiom!the only thing i have to add,is that you can also check:
mayhem-a grand declaration of war
the albums of lock-up and nile-in their darkened shrines.the death albums do not have blastbeats,but the guys who play there,really go crazy!and of course,if you will try to play those things it'll surely be difficult,cause u will have to reach that speed!
see you 8!

alencore
08-21-2003, 05:43 AM
One of my favorite although not so death metal driven band is Death Angel. Check out Discontinued or The Ultra Violence, hehe one heck of song title ah.? I heard Mike Portnoy played on some death metal bands before joining or forming DT. He seems quite thankful since he got to develop his double bass chops on those bands.

Pantera is so heavy as well since they seems to be the pioneer of that death vox style or whatever.

Adam
08-26-2003, 11:09 AM
IMO any death metal that is NOT from some Scandinavian country sucks....those guys can do some pretty big damage with the double kicks.

I personally don't like Death Metal or Thrash metal at all. I'm impressed at the speed those guys can dish out, but it gets boring for me.

quitou
08-26-2003, 11:27 AM
My opinion,
I don't think what they play is anything complicated, but it is just incredibly fast (for example Slayer music). You could say the same thing for a Virg song like Dog Boots...I don't think it's anything complicated (actually in terms of the rhythms, it is quite straight forward), but what makes it hard is the speed...trying to hold doubles at 200BPM for 4 minutes or however long the song is...So if you can play really, really fast, speed metal drumming shouldn't be a problem...if you're not too fast, then it would be very difficult to play beacause of the speed and the length of time the speed has to be sustained...

With than in mind, I 've always had the view that being able to play fast for long periods of time and at loud volumes (ie. Speed meatl drumming) is as much a skill as anything else you try to develop. It takes time and patience to develop speed and endurance, the same way it would to learn how to play jazz rhythms, or develop soloing over an ostinato, playing in odd times, etc.

So while I think it is not very hard rhythmically, I still have alot of respect for some speed metal drummers (not all), but definitely for a guy like Dave Lombardo, etc.

quitou
08-26-2003, 11:34 AM
After reading Fede's cmment above, my response above was my opinion from speed music that I've heard. I haven't heard any of the music Fede mentioned above, so I could hardly acuurately state whether it's complicated to play. Most of the speed metal/thrash stuff I've heard is just the fast 4/4 stuff, so that is what my opinion above was based on...I'm gonna have to check out some of the music Fede recommended.

alencore
08-26-2003, 12:10 PM
well for one thing i don't understand a word these death metal bands are quacking about, lol.

v1rotate
08-28-2003, 10:07 AM
Meshuggah - Destroy, Erase, Improve (Thomas Haake, 1995)

Yes, that's a good album, very tight and interesting rhythms too.

I've got a couple of albums by Fear Factory but somehow I believe that some of the double bass work is sequenced, it just seems too tight and too fast to be real but I may be wrong. It sounds like a machine gun than a bass drum!!!

Playing fast is one thing that can get boring after awhile however I am really into the rhythms that some of these thrash bands come up with. Dave Lombardo (Slayer) was the first drummer that really impressed me with the speed of his feet (singles). He actually has two big fans behind his ankles to stop them cramping up when playing (obviously a heel up player).

Fede
08-28-2003, 03:51 PM
The last Fear Factory album "DigiMortal" has bassdrums that sound very quantized, yes. I do not have a clue as to why they chose to do that. I heard them play some of the songs off that album live here in Copenhagen, even some of the fastest stuff on that album, and he (Raymond) could play it without any real trouble.....don't get it.

He's got amazing feet, but that's about it. Has got the hands of a 2 year old.

v1rotate
08-30-2003, 10:01 AM
Fede,

The album I had in mind was the "Obsolete" album with very sequenced sounding bass drums. Not sure how you could go about quantitizing a recorded bass drum from a mike though?

drummer344
03-16-2005, 08:43 AM
i'm not a drummer so i would like to ask you a question:
is death/thrash metal drumming so difficult as it sometimes sounds?You listen to it and think that sometimes the guy blasts the hell out of him. But perhaps most of the time it's not something exceptional, it's just fast 4/4. What do you think?
ya my cuz is a wicke drummer and all he does is play 4/4 fast :)

mtgarrett
03-16-2005, 03:11 PM
Check out Epitaph by Necrophagist; in addition to speed, he's (drummer Hannes Grossman) got some real interesting stuff going on.

vdreignsuponus1
03-16-2005, 04:04 PM
i used to be a hardcore slayer fan and i can tell u that dave lombardo is a very good drummer. he's shown some impressive stuff on some slayer albums but his most impressive stuff ive heard from him was the vivaldi tribute album "vivaldi: the meeting" which i love that i own!:)

good stuff..but i havent been a death metal fan since 8th grade..

IronCobraMan
03-17-2005, 02:14 AM
raymond herrera has got nothing special feet wise.... he can burst out up to 230-240...from what ive heard.... he has no stamina .... look at pete sandoval.... this guy can go upwards of 250-260 and even 280 (morbid angel-gateways to annihilation )...and he does it consistantly for many bars....

i still dig raymonds style...he really knows the meaning of rocking out.... but technically he doesnt do it for me....

Holand
03-17-2005, 07:42 AM
yeah epitaph is a tight album!

cjcdrums
03-17-2005, 07:55 AM
raymond herrera has got nothing special feet wise.... he can burst out up to 230-240...from what ive heard.... he has no stamina .... look at pete sandoval.... this guy can go upwards of 250-260 and even 280 (morbid angel-gateways to annihilation )...and he does it consistantly for many bars....

i still dig raymonds style...he really knows the meaning of rocking out.... but technically he doesnt do it for me....
What song(s) on that album does Pete Sandoval do 280? Never even heard of those speeds!

Drumblast
03-17-2005, 12:29 PM
i'm not a drummer so i would like to ask you a question:
is death/thrash metal drumming so difficult as it sometimes sounds?You listen to it and think that sometimes the guy blasts the hell out of him. But perhaps most of the time it's not something exceptional, it's just fast 4/4. What do you think?
That's why my band has a unwritten rule of NO 4/4 (although we do have one riff in 4/4). We only play in odd meter, it makes it more fun and less generic. But some bands do play in 4/4, but have many tempo changes. Cephalic Carnage do it all, odd meter, tempo changes etc... They are a more brutal sound vaguely similar to Dillinger Escape Plan. There are many great bands out there, and there are many cruddy bands out there.(sound familiar!)
Sometimes 4/4 is just what you need, just unrelenting pissed off blasting with attitude.
Necophagist plays some incredible stuff. I always dig Malevolent Creation, old Meshuggah, and any new stuff that fits my bill. If you are a fan of Death Metal, then you can appreciate all the styles presented, simple or technical. But the musicianship has to be top notch, or have a great ProTools editing. :D

guten666
03-17-2005, 01:20 PM
metal is not that hard to play, its just played so fast, it sounds difficult. Most metal drummers suck i think, but there are some good ones, and i agree that unless their from scandaniva they most likely suck

IronCobraMan
03-17-2005, 03:06 PM
cjc....listen to the song...opening of the gates...at about 1:25 into the song....he kicks into 275-280......pete is an incredible speed player...but anything else he tries to do really sucks...he cant play slow or groove for his life.... but hes amazing at speed....

Drumcanman
03-17-2005, 05:15 PM
cjc....listen to the song...opening of the gates...at about 1:25 into the song....he kicks into 275-280......pete is an incredible speed player...but anything else he tries to do really sucks...he cant play slow or groove for his life.... but hes amazing at speed....
Pete is a GREAT player and I feel sorry for his situation.
They already discussed this at Derek Roddy's site.
Pete is not playing real time on opening of the Gates.
Derek and Pete are friends so Derek explained Petes dilema.
The song was digitally fixed in the studio as Pete could not play the tempo Live in singles.
Derek also says Pete refuses to play the song live.
If Pete had developed doubles Heel toe he could have told Trey to stick it and play the part faster than Trey could ever play.

This is why I have been encouraging drummers to develope doubles as well as singles.
It might be possible to Play Opening the gates with singles with a lot of PRACTICE but it is easily with doubles.
Hope this clears up the confusion.
God Bless
Tim Waterson www.drumcanman.com

cjcdrums
03-17-2005, 05:28 PM
Well, I don't know about EASILY! Maybe for you! :D

Drumcanman
03-18-2005, 01:57 PM
Well, I don't know about EASILY! Maybe for you! :D

CjC playing clean at that speed is not easy even with doubles LOL!
just much easier than attempting it with singles.
Buhay mo track #2 on my site is around the speed of Opening of the gates only the GROOVE of the tempo is 90 Bpm so it sounds slower.
Tim Waterson
www.drumcanman.com

cjcdrums
03-18-2005, 02:02 PM
OH MY GOD! I can't believe how ****ing fast that is! Holy ****!

IronCobraMan
03-18-2005, 11:35 PM
ive played the opening of the gates part on a good good day.... but i get hardly any sound out of my strokes due to the speed the singles are at...

and btw tim.... i dont see how u can say playing doubles at 280 is easy... im having a hard time getting past 170-180.... i cant even begin to think at those speeds....

what i wanna know is.... if i put less time into singles and more time into doubles...will my singles suffer due to lack of practice or will they improve because of better control ? this is my concern...i dont want my singles to backtrack...im almost at the 1000 mark (250 for 60 secs).... and by the time im done with my singles routine...my legs are exhausted....

Drumcanman
03-19-2005, 10:45 AM
ive played the opening of the gates part on a good good day.... but i get hardly any sound out of my strokes due to the speed the singles are at...

and btw tim.... i dont see how u can say playing doubles at 280 is easy... im having a hard time getting past 170-180.... i cant even begin to think at those speeds....

what i wanna know is.... if i put less time into singles and more time into doubles...will my singles suffer due to lack of practice or will they improve because of better control ? this is my concern...i dont want my singles to backtrack...im almost at the 1000 mark (250 for 60 secs).... and by the time im done with my singles routine...my legs are exhausted....

ICM
I should have said EASIER! LOL
Playing at those speeds is not easy with doubles but playing at those speeds with singles is VERY difficult.
It is hard just to keep one foot even with ametrenome and to get the 2 feet together VERY difficult.
I was reading about Drummers on this board were saying they could do up to 300 in singles
I am saying this is much easier to do with doubles.
I can hold 300 with my right foot for a short time but my left foot just laughs.
I will try but in singles YIKES!!!!
Did you see how fast Jotan and Mikes sticks are moving to get to 1200
Hope this helps good luck and God Bless
Tim Waterson
www.drumcanman.com

Tama3186
03-19-2005, 12:19 PM
ORIGIN, the first two albums feature Jhn Longstreth on the drums, and he has some endurance i can tell you that, just listen to portal, its badass double bass all the way through.

bevs_joey
03-21-2005, 02:23 PM
any of you heared of vitek from decapitated?! double bass legend!! lol
if you havent i suggest u listen to songs such as "the first damned" or "mandatory suicide" (slayer cover)

cjcdrums
03-21-2005, 02:24 PM
What about THIS guy?!? http://www.virgildonati.com/videos/g3solo.wmv

C.J.
03-21-2005, 02:26 PM
You're like too fast bro...

cjcdrums
03-21-2005, 02:27 PM
Sorry, you got the next one!

bevs_joey
03-21-2005, 02:34 PM
What about THIS guy?!? http://www.virgildonati.com/videos/g3solo.wmv

nah!! boring! wat this guy....

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Marco_Minnemann.html

check out his solos etc.

C.J.
03-21-2005, 02:40 PM
Just like eat this :

http://www.virgildonati.com/videos/highlights-tokyo82704_01.wmv

bevs_joey
03-21-2005, 02:48 PM
um nah eat this:::
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/marcominnemannex.html

or maybe this:::
http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/ThomasLang2.html

hehehehe!

IronCobraMan
03-21-2005, 02:54 PM
heres some vid of me doing some death metal.... altho i forget to play death metal cuz im too busy trying to keep my bassdrum pad from moving...

this is why i named this video i h8 Edrums :)

this is a documentary of a real drum session... fixing **** but not actually playing

http://rapidshare.de/files/954463/I_h8_Edrums.wmv.html

but there is some playing

cjcdrums
03-21-2005, 07:42 PM
Hey bevs joey, eat THIS!
http://ryanparrymusic.com/Always.AVI

Bwa ha ha!

bevs_joey
03-22-2005, 04:37 AM
Hey bevs joey, eat THIS!
http://ryanparrymusic.com/Always.AVI

Bwa ha ha!

i cant watch that as my media player is buggered sorry. If you are gunna send me vids, can you please send em so i can view em in quicktime?? :) cheers

Drumblast
03-22-2005, 09:44 AM
i cant watch that as my media player is buggered sorry. If you are gunna send me vids, can you please send em so i can view em in quicktime?? :) cheers
Dude,

You do not want to see this. It's this high school kid playing guitar and singing at a talent show. Or should I say Talent-Less show. Very bad.

alencore
03-22-2005, 12:44 PM
lol!!! - - - -

cjcdrums
03-22-2005, 02:03 PM
Bwa ha ha ha ha ha! *evil smirk*

TuomasR
03-23-2005, 07:15 AM
i'm not a drummer so i would like to ask you a question:
is death/thrash metal drumming so difficult as it sometimes sounds?You listen to it and think that sometimes the guy blasts the hell out of him. But perhaps most of the time it's not something exceptional, it's just fast 4/4. What do you think?

Listen to rotten sound,there´s a finnish guy kai hahto.www.kaihahto.com
He plays also many other styles like jazz but he famous from rotten sound .i´m going to take a lesson from him soon. i can tell more later.

cjcdrums
03-23-2005, 09:07 AM
Is that like www.rotten.com (http://www.rotten.com) ?

C.J.
03-23-2005, 12:59 PM
Oh no not that site...

vdreignsuponus1
03-23-2005, 03:03 PM
hahaha, man that site is the worst!

C.J.
03-23-2005, 03:19 PM
Yeah like "who wants to stick a golf ball in his eye orbits ?"

bevs_joey
03-25-2005, 05:09 AM
that site cracks me up!

C.J.
03-25-2005, 07:34 AM
See, Slipknot is bad! You get bad ideas with Joey's leather and masks... Now you get exited with discusting things. I knew you where that kind of person!

alencore
03-27-2005, 11:37 AM
death metal...hmmmm... all i hear is ......GRRRRR!!!....on the vox and then BRRRRGGGG on the bass drums and........ GRRRRRRR again on the guitar...or may be i'm just getting old for this kind of s h i t !
ABBA's music are way better.

vdreignsuponus1
03-27-2005, 12:10 PM
im glad i already went through my death metal stage..:)

bevs_joey
03-28-2005, 03:48 AM
you lot just cant keep up with the intensity and the endurance. too unfit i think. or too old. hahaha

C.J.
03-28-2005, 07:19 AM
Why because you can? Hah! Hum...

Andrew Dennison
03-28-2005, 08:59 AM
Well back to death metal drumming. A band named Sleep Terror has an absolutely amazing drummer whom I do not know the name of yet. But his blasts and straight double bass are some of the most clean and fast I have ever heard. Check them out at www.myspace.com/sleepterror

C.J.
03-28-2005, 10:33 AM
I've got that EP (I live in France so I had to get my oncle to send it to me ha!) on the CD the drums are programed.

I've no idea of what it's like live though.

schecter diamon
03-30-2005, 09:38 PM
Fast blastbeats...

Kataklysm. The song "Blood on the Swans" has this incredibly fast blastbeat in the beginning. Only problems here are "Can this guy do it live"? and "is it real?"

IronCobraMan
03-31-2005, 12:21 AM
kataklysm is known to do alot of gravity blasting (one handed roll) ..... but doesnt make it cheating... gravity blasting is very hard to perfect

hereswheristand
03-31-2005, 02:31 PM
here's a local band that has some alright blast beats, not the fastest or anything but this drummer is only 17. http://www.purevolume.com/aresletum

IronCobraMan
03-31-2005, 04:02 PM
garbage.....that **** is a dime a douzen

hereswheristand
04-01-2005, 06:59 PM
I never said it was my favorite or anything but that was kinda unnecessary

IronCobraMan
04-02-2005, 12:21 AM
its just cuz when i tour i play with these kinds of bands...and im so sick of hearing that crap

bevs_joey
04-02-2005, 04:11 PM
im sick hearing your crap!

cjcdrums
04-02-2005, 04:12 PM
I'm sick of hearing your crap!

vdreignsuponus1
04-02-2005, 04:14 PM
u should come around more often bevs joey!:)

cjcdrums
04-02-2005, 04:17 PM
If Virgil's so inferior to Joey, why aren't you over on the Pearl forum? I believe that is just what you're looking for. You'd fit RIGHT in.

vdreignsuponus1
04-02-2005, 04:23 PM
and while ur there, do check out nevesis's vid of him making fun of joey jordinson!:)

C.J.
04-03-2005, 11:14 AM
Bavs, I can't believe that your 18, dude your attitude is so childish... I'm not saying I'm the most mature of guys, but please, just grow up a bit.

bevs_joey
04-04-2005, 03:53 PM
how am i being childish?

GreenPremier
04-04-2005, 05:32 PM
The gravity blast is hard, but it can be done in a short amount of time. I actually couldn't do it until one day I was messing around with a table knife and using my pinky finger as the rim on the edge of a counter and I just tried to make it even pivoting from my elbow. When doing it with a stick the index finger should be about an inch or two from the rim(horizontally that is) in order for it work best for me. Not using wrists, just frickin' move your forearm up and down trying to make the down stroke beat hit with the rim...ramble ramble ramble, I do..Okay.

So I've seen Kataklysm live and he's doing it perfectly, but his snare is triggered, which I have no problem with, but it is not a good sounding sample he's using.

Another good death metal band is Necrophagist, and Nephasth. now that's good s h i t

C.J.
04-05-2005, 01:18 PM
Bevs,

Just please, try to be a little more open minded, that's all I'm asking...

bevs_joey
04-11-2005, 06:05 AM
my mind is open

schecter diamon
04-11-2005, 08:04 PM
YES! A necrophagist fan. Goddamn, Epitaph is incredible.
Any recommendations for Nephasth songs? I'd like to check them out.

GreenPremier
04-11-2005, 09:05 PM
YES! A necrophagist fan. Goddamn, Epitaph is incredible.
Any recommendations for Nephasth songs? I'd like to check them out.


I'm actually getting the "Conceived by inhuman blood" album in the mail coming soon, but a majorly kick ass song is "Damaged Knowlegde" Just brutal death metal with GOOD production. Necrophagist's newest is ****ing awesome, with excellent production. I'm actually listening to the new Belphegor disc right now "The Goatreich-Fleshcult" it's a good one with brutal blasting up to 250 and double bass up to 230. It's nice stuff, Torturer tears it up on this disc.
And Panzerchrist is a pretty sweet band, their newest "Room Service" is a pretty good one with great production and fast as hell blasting a song you could check out and there's an mp3 on the net somewhere called "Tomorrow" is a good one, short but sweet. I want the CD but it's an import that costs like 30 bucks, Insanity!