exercises for double stroke playing on double pedal anyone??

[Milo Porto]

can someone help with exercises on double stroke double bass playing here....maybe post a few rudiments....etc i really want to master the double srtroke ...have been playing double bass for almost 8 years but want to explore more double bass patterns....:D thanx!

[peter]

Milo,

I suggest examining your approach to both
the single and double-stroke on the kick and
in comparison to your hands. Why are they
different? Make the approaches the same.

Your basic challenge in the double-stroke is
getting two strikes for the one stroke of the
limb. You have to get here, after you have
built up a decent single-stroke.

My first suggestion for an exercise is strike
the kick with one strike and get two strokes.
One motion - two strokes. You have to get
and on your left foot, especially.

I want you do this by striking the footboard
closer to the bottom. This motion will always
be focused on the lower part of the footboard.

Do this alternating one foot to the other. I
want you to work towards that point, where
you drop that leg and foot on the board and
two quick strokes come out.

I'll be glad to help you out with it, if I can.

[DoubleBass_Rob]

My approach with doubles, is trying to avoid the idea of one stroke, 2 bounces, because usually there's going to be an inconsistancy with the second bounce, and you're really going to notice it with double bass. I usually try to make sure the second stroke is as much as powerful as the first, if not more powerful as that's a good way to develop it.
I also reccommend buying Virgil's modern drummer '96 video, as that's got a nice amount of double strokes on double bass exercises.
Enjoy.

[peter]

DBR,

I believe what you're saying, in
principle, is the right thing. In the
end, you want as much control
over all strokes as possible.

Let me ask you, with the idea of
commanding BOTH strokes, on the
kick, how fast have you been able
to actually go and how long have
you been at your present plateau?

I ask that because I don't know any
drummers that do not bounce their
double-strokes above 250bpm.

Again, I agree with you and I apply
this as much as I can, when I play.
For slow speeds, there is no need to
bounce the stick or beater on the head.

In a video that I saw of Thomas
Lang, today, I saw him play all slow
tempi, with his heels down, in control
of all strokes, which were almost all
single.

However, on another video, when he
goes into his double-stroke routine,
it appears to me that he is using the
rebound from the head. I could be
wrong about this. His heels seem
elevated... I can't be sure.

Please correct me if I'm wrong. Is
there someone out there that is
saying that they can do double-
strokes at 250bpm, without using
rebound?

You have been at this longer than I.
I'm all ears. I have only shared my
observations and what I have done,
so far, and in 3-days. Lord knows
that I might find better ways of get-
ting the kinds of results that Virgil
or Lang gets from their kicks.

We're all trying to find out what works
for us. It's a good dialogue.

[peter]

In line with with what DBR said and
you'll never go wrong, using that
principle, this execise is one that
can help. I used this on my right kick
but I'm adding the left for us:

rR, lL, rR, lL etc.

The second note of each pair is ac-
cented. these have to be done very
slowly. Be patient.

This is what I did to develop the
Samba feel in my kick. It works.

One thing, though - DO NOT BURY
THE BEATER IN THE HEAD. Later on,
this will work against you.

[peter]

DBR,

Do you think that a drummer could
use the rebound technique and also
develop his control of the individual
strokes at the same time?

I ask that because I'm so tempted
to recommend using the rebound to
players who are frustrated with their
progress in double-stroking on the
kick. What do you think?

They can still develop their individual
stroke control separately.

[Milo Porto]

thanx peter and DBR i will try both suggestions and see which one works for me??

[quitou]

We should get Christopher to ask the man himself (that would be virgil) to see what he says about it.

[Milo Porto]

...actually...yeah! christopher, if you could? could you?

[Christopher]

Hey Guys I just moved this thread to the Tips and Techniques section.

[peter]

Good idea.

[peter]

There's no reason not to do both.

You want to control your strokes
as much as possible.

As I see it, rebounding can get you
quick results. Use them to build your
enthusiasm and confidence and at
the same time, work on your individual
strokes, building them up. Get the best
of BOTH worlds.

I would be VERY interested in what
Virgil has to say about it and Christopher,
tell him that I REALLY would like his input
on it, since he's primarily responsible for
me spending another $200 on a second
pedal! :D

[drumhead]

While there are some good answers here (control, etc) no one has really answered the question. If you want to learn to play doubles, let me offer you these solutions to technique, because playing doubles is about technique and woodshedding. I can't explain it without visuals and since there are so many good educational drum videos out there let me make 3 recommendations.

1) Dave Weckl - Back to Basics. In this video/DVD, Dave has a section on bass drum technique, including a section on doubles. Keep in mind Dave is more of a single bass drummer who uses double bass sparingly. Dave describes the sliding technique when doing doubles, in which you press down in the middle of the footboard for the first hit, then your foot slides up the pedal and pushes the pedal down for the second strike. He demonstrates this in slow and full speed. The next step is to go to your drum set and practice this technique with both feet. I believe this is the method Virgil and Tom Lang use, as you can watch their feet sort of twist, but their heels never actually touch the pedal board.

2) Ballistic bass drums - Those who read modern drummer have seen the ads. I purchased the video and I can do doubles. The technique is totally different from what Weckl teaches. Joe teaches the heel-toe method. I think this can lack some power at times. What I do is a hybrid version of this and #3.


3) I took a drum lesson from a guy who showed me a "moeller" technique on the bass drum pedal. I think Steve Smith demonstrates this technique in his new DVD, I'll have to check. This method of doubles is a heel-up for the first strike and a heel down for the second strike. This is the method I am using. Mike Mangini uses this method as well. The guy that taught me this says Virgil uses this technique, but I don't agree. I'll check out Steves DVD and get back to you.

Hope this helps!

[peter]

Drumhead,

You should try the Longboard pedal.
Also, take a look at the VRUK. I have
videos of it, strewn about, here.

Thanks for the tips.

[peter]

Hey Drumhead,

I just wanted to thank you again for
the tips you gave us yesterday and
concerning the slide into the pedal.

I have analyzed what I have been
doing thus far and I noticed a slight
slide. When I put my attention on it,
I got better results, almost immedietely.

I just wanted to let you know, give
you thanks and also say that our
vigilance is against tyranny, both
domestic and foreign.

Grateful,

[drumhead]

No problem Peter. I hope I have helped. By the way, what is a VRUK?

[peter]

Check it out Drumhead:

http://www.thediametrixletter.com/1.mov
http://www.thediametrixletter.com/2.mov
http://www.thediametrixletter.com/3.mov

[peter]

Again, thanks to DrumHead for pointing
out some tips from DW's video.

Today, I spent some time, working on my
doubles, at 180bpm, studying what was
happening, emphasizing some of the points
that were previously mentioned. Here's
what I found:

1. Position down on the footboard is
absolutely essential.

2. Leg elevation is also paramount.

I trained myself to be heel-down and to have
very little, if any help from leg weight. For
the rebound and snap-back method, like
DW talks about, it seems like you need that
weight. That creates the potential rebound.

In addition to this, the leg elevation is a
more obvious indicator for temp and even-
ness. It seems like you need .5 inch, at least.

3. While I was getting enough rebound on
the DW5K pedal I was using on the left, when
I tried my left foor on the longboard, it was
better defined. The longer the board, the
better the slide, for me, that is.

I really had major success' today, keeping
these things in mind.

I hope it gives you ideas.

I went back up to 200bpm for this experiment:

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops8.mp3

I found that I could control things much more,
while focusing on the 3 points.

Again, these are my observations. :)

[peter]

DrumHead,

Tell me about yourself a little,
if it's all right, me asking....

[quitou]

Right on Peter,

You da man!!! Pretty impressive.

[peter]

This feels even better...

Here it is at 220bpm... pushin':

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops9.mp3
www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops10.mp3

I might be getting the hang
of this thing...

[peter]

Quitou,

I'm nobody, man. I think it's
just understanding what has
to happen for the effect to be
created. You guys can all do
this, I'm sure.

Remember what a double-
stroke roll is on the hands. If
you can do it doesn't mean
diddly, right? It's the combos
and the placement. Virgil is the
king, leading us into battle.

:cool:

[peter]

I just want to encourage you guys
that are working at this. It's possible.
You have to work at it and be willing
to try different approaches and ideas.
You don't know what might work for
you. Don't say no. Say yes.

[peter]

OK.

Back to actual exercises that you can do...

With the consecutive 32nd-note Intro and
pulse ALWAYS, try these routines, at 170bpm:

www.thediametrixletter.com/rightfoot1.mp3
www.thediametrixletter.com/leftfoot1.mp3

Keep your 32nd note pulses going, right to
left, AT ALL TIMES. This will help your indep-
endence, later on.

Tell me if it helps. I like it.

Slow the tempo down, if you need to and
try always to use a metronome/click.

You can can hear a couple of screw-up/omissions
on my left kick. Hey, man - I'm working on
these WITH YOU! This is totally new to me too! :D

[quitou]

Hey Guys,

With regards to Drumheads comment about Steve Smith's foot technique...I have Smith's DVD and will do my best to describe what he does...

Initially, he plays the first stroke with his toes...after this he lets the beater bounce back off the head all the way to the starting position (you kinda have to lift your foot off the pedal for this to occur)...once the beater is back to starting position he plays the second note with his heel...

The thing smith emphasizes is that you have to let the beater come ALL THE WAY BACK off the head...he says people make the error of not allowing the beater to come all the way back...when you do it properly, the pedal and your leg will have like a bouncing ball effect.

He also says before you go to play the next stroke, once again you have to let the beater come all the way back to the starting position, then play the first note with your toe, let the beater come back, second note with your heel, let the beater come back, next note with your toe, etc.

Smith describes this technique only on one pedal, but I'm sure it can easily be applied to both feet. I really hope this makes sense...its hard to describe but if you could see the DVD it would make a lot of sense what I'm trying to say.

Smith calls this the constant release technique (I think this name refers to aloowing the pedal to constantly bounce back to the starting position before playing the next stroke). He said he learned the technique from Freddy Gruber...I wonder if Weckl maybe utilizes this technique now as well since he also studied with freddy gruber.

[quitou]

One more thing I'll add, to let the beater bounce back you have to lift your foot off the pedal (after playing the beat with your toe and with your heel)...

[peter]

This morning, I adjusted the distance
of the pedals. I found that, further
away, I more naturally pushed the
footboard - this allowing for more
of the "Weckl/Donati/Mega effect",
which I found produced doubles more
and more easily, with just a little
bit of practice.

My floor level is grossly uneven,
where the kit is set up. Right now,
I do not have an alternative BUT I
feel that in ideal conditions, I
would be doing even better than I
am. I can just imagine what guys like
you can do with this.

1. Set up pedal as far as to warrant
the push, requiring it of you.

2. Push the pedal for double-strokes,
playing down on the footboard.

This should help produce the effect.

I have found that most of the drummers
that get great foot-action are down on
the footboard. Guys like Virgil, Vinnie
and Dave are examples.

[peter]

Automatically allocating the pairs of 32nd-notes
on the beat or evenly spaced from it to the right
foot, from those that occur off-the-beat, to the
left foot, organizes them so that we can more
easily layer above them.

Down the road, I'm sure we'll want to be able to
interchange the footing, but when we're starting
with them, like I am, I believe that we have to
treat them just as we would our hands, limb by
limb - acccenting strong and then accenting weak.

I hope I'm conveying accurately what I am trying to.

Keep on kicking!

[drumhead]

Peter, sounds like your picking things up pretty well. Now that you can play doubles, the next step is to go from rolls to playing doubles in various places of the beat. For example, when playing 16th notes, place a double on the 1, then the "e", then the "&" and then the "a". Do the same with triplets. When you master those, then you can come up with some pretty intense grooves.

[peter]

Drumhead,

I can feel that you are right. I have been
working towards it. I have tried a couple
of combinations. It feels strange but I
knew it would, when it concerned the
left foot.

I have been playing with two very different
pedals. I'm about to match them. I now
am going to try an Eliminator. I have an
Axis and a DW, favoring the Axis.

I also have been working on a an uneven
floor, which I have noticed is making a
difference. I need to move things around
in order to get flatter.

Thanks for the encouragement.

I'm going to keep going. It's really exciting
to have something like this to work on
and guys like you, especially, to spur me
on. That's what I love about this board.
It's always pushing and encouraging of
each other in a positive way.

[peter]

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops13.mp3

I am trying to open these up.

Alternating the doubles to singles
seems to be really defining the
strokes better - just like the hands.

[peter]

I'm continuing to work on my
double-strokes and am finding
more and more comfort with
certain aspects that I thought
I'd be stuck on for a long time.

For one thing, going from heel-
down to heel-up. This has been
an easier transition than I expect-
ed, though I am still improving
on the actual switch, midstream.

Finding "the zone" (near the
bottom of the footboard) has
become a lot easier. A quick
way for me is to lay my heels
off the footboard entirely and
the balls of my feet are right
around where they should be.

The actual depress is different
than the single stroke - being
much like the double on the hand,
the stick being pushed into the
drum but not rigidly. It's the
same with the foot. Heel-up,
the foot is brought down and
pushed onto the board but
again, not in rigid motion.

The slower to fast tempos,
the break-ups of the double-
strokes into the "diddles" etc...
These all contribute to real im-
provement on this aspect of
double-kicking, I have found.

One more thing - I have noticed
that playing very softly has
really helped too. This is some-
thing that Steve Gadd once
told me, when working the
hands but it applies to the
feet too, apparently. :D

[Matias]

Great explanation Peter; thanks a lot! :)

[peter]

It's nothing, Matias. We're all in the
same boat together, passing the
bucket, hoping to take out more
water than is coming in.

I'm open to any suggestions of
what might be used as a cork!

Something else I wanted to mention. The
balance on your throne is critical to get-
ing the right push onto the pedals.
You, AT LEAST, have to be on the center
of that throne but you could also find
yourself actually on the backside of the
center for the optimum push.

Today, I was sitting back just a little,
while I was practicing the double-strokes
and at only 140bpm. I was getting MUCH
BETTER action off the surface of the pads,
more power and clarity.

Balance is always a key issue but with
these double-strokes, even more.

That's my take.

[alencore]

Nice to see yah Pete still as awesomely inspired to drumming nirvana and beyond...whew is that deep or what? LOL!

[peter]

Kyle,

This is where you should hang
out for a while. Check out what
others have said about it, so far.

Tell me - what kind of bpm are
you up to, cleanly?

What about your strokes? How
are you achieving them? Are
you generating each one or
using rebound from the head?

Where are you on the footboard?
Are you up, in the middle or
down low on it?

What kind of pedals are you
using? What kind of tension are
you working with? What about
the beater distance?

This will give me something to
go on, in terms of my suggestions.

[peter]

Here's another practice pattern:

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops16.mp3

[bootdogs]

Peter, are you using the VRUK pedal for this? I love viewing your posts and I remember you talking about the VRUK pedal and how you like it against your Pearl Eliminator pedals.

I currently own eliminators and I love it.

[peter]

I am not using the VRUK attachment
and haven't for some time. I am using
one Eliminator now, with my Axis. I have
another Eliminator on the way.

I should try them again, when I get
them. They really bring out your doubles
and with more power.

[bootdogs]

Dont you think it's little like "cheating" when you have the VRUK pedals? I dont know, maybe Im just too old fashioned.

I would also love to see a video of what youre doing, Im kind of struggling right now with my singles as well as my doubles. I can only go till about 140-150 and then I get some kind of blockage in my feet. Why is that?

Thanks for your help and great insights.

[peter]

I don't think so but that's because
I understand what they do. In ad-
dition, I'm not using them the way
Vuk intended, having been a heel-
down player for so many years.

We can talk more about it if you
want. No holds barred.

They (singles and doubles) are
different altogether, BD.

DON'T BE DISCOURAGED.

Hey, 140-150 is great! What are
you talking about?! If it's clean, we
are on the right road.

Tell me everything about what you
are doing down there. I'll help out
any way that I can.

We're all in this together. I'm just
starting out down there too.

[bootdogs]

Well, 140-150 is seriously my absolute limit. I can tough it out, but not THAT much. Im still going at it.

The thing is my left foot (I think). I block out and kind of freeze while Im riding on the feet which basically messes up my whole groove and further unbalances me on the kit.

I've been trying to work my shin muscle to kind of get some kind of control when I lift the heels a bit more. Im not a heel-down player, so...

A good exercise for this is on the John Blackwell DVD where he talks about how he developed that shin muscle by playing a flanged hi-hat for the left foot and heel down for the right foot counting 4/4 at heel-down. This is the exercise that I do when I warm up on the practice pad (I emulate the hi hat and bass drum with my feet WITHOUT the kit).

Im figuring that if I have some good shin muscle action and I could combine it with the heel-down control + heel up method, I should be ok.

I dont know if I was clear on this, but hopefully I've communicated it well to you.

Thanks so much...

[Rob from GGOD]

Hey!!! You know, i get that exact same kind of 'blockage' feeling in my left foot with fast doubles. I warm up by just playing a few different beats and grooves with my left foot only, but when it comes to working those double strokes it just dies.

However, i find that i can play it fastest when i just slow it down (i mean REAL freakin slow) and gradually build up the speed. Sure, after 5-10 minutes my shins are buggered, but it seems to be working, and might be of some help to you.

Also, when you say you're up to 140-150, are you talkin quavers or semiquavers?

Cheers!:)

[peter]

OK.

First of all, let's remember what
an ally patience is. Without it, we
will go nowhere and fast.

Right from the get-go: your left
foot deserves some attention
and it commands that patience
I just mentioned. WAIT FOR IT.
Wisdom and Wait begin with the
same letter.

Second of all, we have to be
realistic about our situation. It's
likely that you are asking the left
foot to do something you haven't
before and that means that if you
are thinking of having it do what
the right foot can do, you'll have
to wait as long as you did for the
right foot, for it!

One of the things I do is spend
time playing all of my beats, with
my left foot, instead of right foot.
I also learn all my combo-fills with
it and slow them down as neces-
sary to get them accurate and
that's the most important thing.

SUCCEED and SLOW begin with
S. Remember that.

I want both of you to tell me where
on the footboard you are depressing
for your double-strokes and what
angle your thighs are, against the
lower part of your leg to your ankle.

Also how high are you sitting (not
as important but let me know any-
way). There might be a couple of
adjustments that you might try.

We'll get you going.

[bootdogs]

Originally posted by Rob from GGOD
Also, when you say you're up to 140-150, are you talkin quavers or semiquavers?


At this point, I would say quavers. On my 'good' days I can manage to pull it at semiquavers.

Also, I dont know if its a good idea to play on a set of pedals that have high tension and then resort back to the looser pedals when I practice. That's what im doing now...to work out the feet a bit more.

[peter]

Also, besides what I asked above,
please tell me the type pedals you are
using, along with spring tensions etc.

Right away, At 140-150bpm, you could
break-up your doubles, varying them,
creating different combinations that will
isolate each of the feet and get them
acting more like an extra pair of hands.

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops17.mp3

[bootdogs]

Im using the Eliminator double pedal with loose spring tension along with the blue cams. I also liked the white cams for a while, but blue seemed to be to most comfrtable.

As regular 'practice pad' pedals while Im at home, I have dw 5000 pedals at HIGH tension. But I try to play on those heel-down as much as possible. I dont know if this is a good thing though. Im experimenting.

[peter]

BD,

Thanks.

Keep the loose spring tension for
now but we may try something a
little different later.

Could you tell me a bit more? The
location of the pedal depress is key
for me to go on.

Interesting how you went from white
to blue on the cams. You jumped the
black. Hmmm...

What about the beater distance?

You mentioned the DW5000's. Which
do you prefer, right now?

Let's think this through.

[bootdogs]

I prefer the Eliminator's, hands down. The DW's are a little too mechanical for me, I dont feel too comfortable on them. Also, part of the reason why I dont like it is because it's chain pedals, I'm not a big fan of chain. I've always liked (and started) with strap pedals. I feel I have a little more control.

The beater distance is quite the average one, I dont have it very close, if that's what youre thinking.

However, im kind of lost when you mention "location of the pedal depress". What do you mean exactly?

Thanks!

[peter]

The Eliminators are fine pedals.
I just bought a second one
yesterday. I like the white cams.
It lifts the footboard up a tad. I
also moved the strap adjustment
so that the strap is pulled as
much as possible.

Tell me what angle your beaters
are at resting.

By pedal depress, I mean where
are you pressing down, on the
fottboard, to get your doubles?
Are you on the upper part or
lower part of the pedal?

We'll get to the bottom of this,
pun intended, BD.

[bootdogs]

Ok, Ill try to answer all of your questions here :)

My beaters rest at about 40 degrees (maybe 45) when its rested.

I think you maybe misunderstood my post when I was talking about 140-150. I can go at that speed with singles, not doubles. I havent tried doubles yet, but I think I will follow what you may recommend me.

At the moment, Im using more of my foot as opposed to using my whole LEG to get the desired pedal action. After a certain speed, you cant really use your legs to go fast, its physically impossible.

[peter]

BD,

You may have hit something here.

First, loosen the spring tension and
pull back the beater to 35 degrees.
You want some kick.

Remember that this is my opinion, OK?
We may have some players here that
will differ. For what it's worth, I have been
around the block a few times.

When I have seen drummers that are
known for their kicking, I have noticed
that most of them play the pedal, down
on the lower portion.

Playing singles and playing double on
the kick are DIFFERENT ANIMALS. You
NEED to be on the lower part of the
footboard, if you are going to get the
action you need for sustained, 190
plus double-stroking.

1. On your Eliminators, take your heel
off the heel-board entirely. Your toes
should be just over the Pearl insignia.

2. At 140bpm, play single strokes, in
this position, heel-up.

3. Play doubles now, realizing that your
feet are just like your hands and when
you drop your feet, go ahead and use
your legs, PUSHING the pedal down, the
same number of movements but with the
double the number of strokes.

Please try this and get back to me.

When you're doing singles, it's a different
story, altogether.

Sit back on the throne and PUSH.

Remember when you saw Virgil live or
on film. His legs were moving! Don't
buy that they aren't a part of the
equation. That weight is PUSHING down
and into the pedal, while his toes are
laying off, though not totally. It's just
like the hands. :)

[bootdogs]

I just noted down your ideas Peter, I will get to this when I go to the studio later.

Thanks so much. Ill write back later!

[peter]

BD,

Also try bringing your beaters up to
50-degrees but tightening the tension.

Remember to keep your toes low on
the footboard. I was flying tonight,
doing this too and it's easier on the
feet, as well.

We'll find the right combo BUT with
your feet LOW on the footboard.

[peter]

BD,

How'd it go with these?

[bootdogs]

Hey Peter,

Ok here are my quick observations:

It's a good thing that you told me WHERE to put my feet on the eliminator. You used the Pearl Insignia as a reference, which helped me out a lot. Now, you know that I have a little bit of difficulty with my singles; after a certain given time, my feet lock up and further messes up my groove. This is only when Im practicing.

I discovered that my feet on the insignia were making me go smoother on the singles. I havent tried this with doubles yet. I was too pre occupied working with my singles! :)

I felt more relaxed by having my feet push down on the middle of the pedal. Before, I used to have my feet a little too high on the footboard, which made me work a little more on the feet and legs (I think this is why I mess up the groove and start over). Right on!

Now that I have this technique down, I want to concentrate on getting control and speed, with singles. I'll try doubles later on. Like I said, my singles go till 130-140. My doubles are not too clean yet for me to give a precise tempo I play it at.

Let me know what you think!

[peter]

This is very good, BD. I'm glad to
hear that you are having success
lower on the footboard.

While you have been at work, one
of my kick towers has been out of
commission BUT this has had bene-
fits. I have been playing all my beats
and riffs, with just my left foot. It
really is coming along quick.

If you can, please devote part of
your practice routines to doubles,
even if for just the 32nd-note intro-
duction of 16th-note tom fills. You
need to get them accustomed to
doubling, like Virgil.

Singles are great. They're powerful
and exact. Don't stop what you're
doing there. Just add the doubles
whenever and wherever you can.

The use of doubles is very relaxing
and it contributes to the fluidity of
your presentation. You will see.

Keep up the good work. I really
am glad to hear about what you
are doing.

[bootdogs]

I just want to know how singles are accomplished at MUCH higher speed. Is it the only the heel doing the work or what? Or maybe its a combination of the leg and the foot....?

Im just curious.

But I will try the doubles for sure. Thanks so much.

[peter]

Watch Virgil and Mangini. There are
others too but always remember that
part of what makes Virgil so great is
the way he mixes it up.

You'll get there.

[peter]

When you're down low on the pedals,
you're getting more movement out of
them and at the same time, needing
less movement from you. Think about
it. Try it and see for yourself. Look at
Virgil and Dennis and where their feet
are on their footboards.

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops18.mp3

Much of the idea behind the Axis Long-
board pedals have to do with this very
physical concept. That's why I believe
it's a lot easier to work with that pedal
but that's another story.

My basic idea here is to get you to try
something new to get things going on
our kicks. It might work for you, as it
has been working for me and this will
work with most any pedal.

I'm sure some of you have ideas. By
all means, share them here under the
TIPS AND TECHNIQUES category. We
are all in the same boat, trying to get
better at what we do, especially when
it comes to kicking.

[peter]

Another routine that I am finding
very. very helpful:

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops19.mp3

[subunit]

heel toe?
try it, it's a fun little change from traditional double strokes on the kick. gotta get nutz.

[mr sonicfeet]

I have the vruk for sale to anybody who's interested? I have three of them. $50 each. Thanks

Leeair@hotmail.com

[Necrodrumicon]

While there are some good answers here (control, etc) no one has really answered the question. If you want to learn to play doubles, let me offer you these solutions to technique, because playing doubles is about technique and woodshedding. I can't explain it without visuals and since there are so many good educational drum videos out there let me make 3 recommendations.

1) Dave Weckl - Back to Basics. In this video/DVD, Dave has a section on bass drum technique, including a section on doubles. Keep in mind Dave is more of a single bass drummer who uses double bass sparingly. Dave describes the sliding technique when doing doubles, in which you press down in the middle of the footboard for the first hit, then your foot slides up the pedal and pushes the pedal down for the second strike. He demonstrates this in slow and full speed. The next step is to go to your drum set and practice this technique with both feet. I believe this is the method Virgil and Tom Lang use, as you can watch their feet sort of twist, but their heels never actually touch the pedal board.

2) Ballistic bass drums - Those who read modern drummer have seen the ads. I purchased the video and I can do doubles. The technique is totally different from what Weckl teaches. Joe teaches the heel-toe method. I think this can lack some power at times. What I do is a hybrid version of this and #3.


3) I took a drum lesson from a guy who showed me a "moeller" technique on the bass drum pedal. I think Steve Smith demonstrates this technique in his new DVD, I'll have to check. This method of doubles is a heel-up for the first strike and a heel down for the second strike. This is the method I am using. Mike Mangini uses this method as well. The guy that taught me this says Virgil uses this technique, but I don't agree. I'll check out Steves DVD and get back to you.

Hope this helps!
Thanks for the tips Drumhead!

[Sillyman]

Hey drumhead i've been playing doubles with the ballistic method for 3 years and i can do very powerful double bassdrum combos it doesn't matter what it is i can do it with power . The thing is that there are a few secrets and elements nobody understand .You have to be persistent and you will make it now i play doubles at 220bpm and they are really powerful you just have to do everything like is supposed to but again is everybody's choice i don't really mind, it's just my style .A lot of times i just play single pedal with shoes and i'm still fast. Personaly i stoped searching and i found my style of playing but i strongly advice everybody to study every little trick and technique on the bass drums it will save your life trust me just take Bruce Lee's theory "Treat a style as no style and an art as no art " there are no limitations as limitations . Just get waht's useful and throw everything else that's not useful away.

[Wankmaster Joe]

Hey drumhead i've been playing doubles with the ballistic method for 3 years and i can do very powerful double bassdrum combos it doesn't matter what it is i can do it with power . The thing is that there are a few secrets and elements nobody understand .You have to be persistent and you will make it now i play doubles at 220bpm and they are really powerful you just have to do everything like is supposed to but again is everybody's choice i don't really mind, it's just my style .A lot of times i just play single pedal with shoes and i'm still fast. Personaly i stoped searching and i found my style of playing but i strongly advice everybody to study every little trick and technique on the bass drums it will save your life trust me just take Bruce Lee's theory "Treat a style as no style and an art as no art " there are no limitations as limitations . Just get waht's useful and throw everything else that's not useful away.

I've heard about this method but I've been quite skeptical. Does it really work that well.

[marlos]

Hi! NEW videos on the loose !! visit http://www.edrums.gr/video.html
a video with detailed analysis of the double stroke roll on the bass drum , hope you find these videos educational !