post your own double strokes!

[jagdkommando]

Hey guys,

I have an idea. Let's post and discuss own recordings of doubles with feet and hands!

I suggest to start with all the exercises (or the one we can play) of Virgil @ MD97. Than we are able to analyze the weak points of each other and the techniques. ASAP I'll record myself doing these exercises (of course only those that I can play).

If it's possible it would help to see videos!

With the hands we could play the same exercises (between one tom and the snare or sth like that). Post your own ideas. However we should post and compare the same exercises, otherwhise we'll end in a chaos. For those who cannot do some of the exercises it doesn't matter I think.

I know that the execises also contain singles a.s.o., but that doesn't matter and makes it more interesting.

The same we can do afterwards concerning paradiddles and flams.

I'd suggest to seperate techniques into different threads. So let's start with MD Exercises for the first time.

What do you think?

Regards,
Martin

[peter]

I don't have the MD97 but I'll post what
I am working on right now and that's just
trying to get into your rear-view mirrors
down there!

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops4.mp3

I know it's not right but it's a start.

[jagdkommando]

You don't have the MD97 Video featuring Virgil Donati ????? You are a big Virgil fan and you don't own this video????? Man you have to order that video as fast as you can!! At once!!!

[peter]

Where can I get it? You guys have
to get me up to speed. ;)

[DeepThought]

Very nice peter!! Lightyears beyond my own... I really want to work on my doubles this year...

[peter]

They really aren't, DeepThought (by the
way you're right about QP). I am just trying
to duplicate what I saw Virgil do in clinic. I
think anybody can do it and note that I
am just beginning this. I have a long way
to go... a long way.

[DavidPartay]

I don't have the video either :( I might ask for my parents to buy it for me :) where can I get it from?

[alencore]

Wow Peter! Are you using triggers or electronic drums coz they sounded really nice except the cymbals which sounded too digital.
Hey, your doubles sounds great.

[morgenthaler]

Sounds like an electronic kit?
At times it sounds just right!, but I think you would really benefit from a slowdown, and work on making them even!
Still.... good job my friend!

[peter]

First guys, I was TRYING to do the
double-strokes constantly and as
even as I could, moving up and
down the footboard, fractionally,
barefoot, with my closed feeling
for the difference. It's not easy.
We're getting minimal rebound
and when that's the case, it is
very tough to get to that spot, if
you know what I mean.

Morganthaler,

I am trying to work these from the
backend. I'm a heel-down player
but with heel-down, it is even more
difficult to cultivate a rebound from
a head/pad and I believe that the
rebound is essential to Virgil's ap-
proach on the doube-stroke. When
I was a kid, I learned how to double-
stroke backwards. I didn't start by
doing RR-LL. I started by trying to
do the pressed roll.

I rationalized that I could already
16th-note patterns. I then thought
that what I could do was to press
each of the 16ths, applying essent-
ially the Moeller principle, getting
mutliple strokes for the one stroke.
It worked for me, back then. I'm not
saying that I do not intend to work
these slower. What I am doing is
ecperimenting, looking for a result,
as I am very result driven.

By kicking 16ths at this tempo, my
attention on the rhythm is lessened
and the reason behind that is that
my legs are ebb and flowing in the
metronomic cadence, which I see,
whenever I watch Virgil. Notice that
while he's double-stroking, he is in
perfect time. It's effortless.

It's overwhelming at first but when
you SEE him, you can get the logic.
He's his own metronome! His legs
are his click track. He's just practiced
and felt for the sweet-spot of the foot-
board for so long, he can get the
maximun rebound off the surfaces
he plays. He's the standard. I'm
trying to apply it in a way that gets
me somewhere. I hope that makes
sense. I am slowing down the
tempos, trying to gain more and
more control. I have been working
on it for 3-days now. I suspect I
will be at it a lot longer. I have a
lot to change.

Alencore,

As in the previous audio and visual,
they are digital. My office is too small
for an acoustic set-up. Of course, I
would prefer and acoustic set-up but
it's just practical, right now. They've
been packed up for years, except for
my Ludwig Supraphonic snare, with
Bear Percussion Studio batter:

www.thediametrixletter.com/bpstudio3.mp3

Thank you both for your encouragement.
I want to do the same for you, feeling
welcome here and inspired by what you
all are doing.

[peter]

Incidentally, today, I seem to have
stumbled onto the fact that the higher
you lift your legs and harder you kick,
the better the rebound. Makes sense.

[peter]

Today's droppings:

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops5.mp3

Still working on it, trying to "feel" more than
anything else.

[jagdkommando]

I'm looking forward to seeing your video peter ... as last year I'm away and not able to download anything. Hope, that a lot of people will be posting sth (including myself *g*).

[peter]

These are just audio, JDK. You'll just hear it.
I'm surprised that you can't hear it. If you have
Windows Media Player or RealPlayer or even
WINAMP, you should be able to pick it up.

[quitou]

Peter buddy,

You gotta give yourself a bit more credit...your doubles are quite good. They aren't always clean, but very few people play them cleanly all the time (with the exception of Virgil, Mangini, Lang, etc.). It sounds good to me...your dogpoops are well on there way to becoming dogBOOTS...Keep it up!!!

[peter]

Quitou,

You guys are killing me. Thanks.
You are all very, very kind.

Listen, I may have an advantage.
I have SEEN Virgil. I watched him
like a hawk and even though I
had a margarita today, I believe
that there is something to his use
of the beater bounce, against
the head. I'm just trying to prove
that one way or the other for my-
self. I believe that I have.

I also have a pair of decent hands
that I have developed over the
years and by certain means, having
had a degree of success, applying
unorthodox approaches to learning;
not to mention having more intimate
contact with some of the world's
greatest drummers. On top of that,
I have had the experience of seeing
hundreds of concerts, as well as
having gigged hundreds of times. I
believe experience can help one to
persist. I will grant myself that.

We're all here, trying to do the same
thing. We want to be like Virgil. I
think that we help each other by
sharing our ideas, our trials and
tribulations. I mean, if it weren't for
listening to Matthias (GD) and Jonberg,
I would not even had attempted the
double-strokes at all, at least for
this next two weeks or so. :)

You guys are doing ME the favor.
You guys are helping ME and I'm
the one who's supposed to be
helping you! You can always learn
and from anyone, no matter how
old they are. Take my son, for
instance (please don't) - he teaches
me something new ALL THE TIME
and he's only 4.5 years old!

[peter]

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops6.mp3

Here, Im trying to mirror my hands, during part
of the routine.

[jimi]

i don't know about the US but there is a PAL version of the MD Fest'97 available on www.partitura.be and the postage should be good even to australia david! you can also get Power drumming there too.

peter, if you don't have TUDW2002, get that too!

[Christopher]

Sorry guys, I also moved this thread to the Tips and Techniques section. Should of done this when it first started, but it grew fast!

[jagdkommando]

@peter: I'm currently moving to another city and there I only have an old computer (no sound) with little download speed ... soon I'll have a fast connection. In the meantime I can only download things at my student hostel where I'm only 2-3 days per week.

@christopher: sorry for starting the thread in the wrong section (I didn't think about it)

[jimi]

@peter: even with a high speed connection it still does take a good bit longer than usual to download your stuff:( maybe because everyone is trying to hear what you have to say:)

[peter]

It can't be that. I'm not worthy.
I think my server doesn't allow
streaming and that makes every-
thing slower.

[BrettLee]

Fortunately, my connection here in the office, is super fast, but like what others are experiencing, yeah - it takes awhile to d/l your stuff, but hey, it's worth tiny wait!! Heard your clip, Peter and again, it sounds really good..!! Your doubles on the foot seem to be cooking quite nicely ;)

[peter]

Today's attempt:

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops7.mp3

Not the best.

[peter]

So you don't think I'm all about speed and chop:

www.thediametrixletter.com/pickitup.mp3

The groove matters to me.

[alencore]

wow, so many files to choose from peter.
that bouncing thingy concerning the foot i think is much more ideal or may be easier if you tune your bass drum the way Bonzo did as in tune really high and tight like a bebop bass drum. kinda make sense since the higher tune the snare the more bounce we get. i know the bass drum will sound aweful for most of us in an acoustic sense.

[peter]

Well, that's a consideration, for sure.
I myself, do not like highly tuned kicks.

What I'm talking about here is not just
rebound, especially in light of the sug-
gestion that, down on the footboard;
a sliding takes place for the second
stroke, into the kick.

Now, with guys like Matthias (German-
Drummer) and others - they produce
excellent results, with a slide off-center.
There's is also a much more pronounced
movement. Mine is more subtle.

Remember, you're kicking the bottom
third of the footboard, slightly pushing
up and into it. Get some tension in the
spring, if there's trouble. Lay the leg
down, TOWARDS the pedal. Don't bring
the foot straight down on it. If you have
to, sit back a little further.

Work with it, experiment with it.

Think of the double stroke on the hands
and the feeling you have, when you
control the bounce. You're not really
applying a lot of pressure.

I'm no authority on this. I'm experiment-
ing along with you. Maybe things can
calm down enough for Matthias' band
that he can get some time to talk more
about how he gets his results, as well
as Jonberg, who impressed us earlier,
in another thread, with his rendition
of "Dogboots".

Let me know how it goes. :)