Most technically advanced guitarists

[richcapo]

Just wondering whom you would consider to be the most technical guitarist(s) around.

By far, I'd have to give the number one spot to Stanley Jordan ... no one has as much technique as he does. Even uber-chopsmen like Steve Morse look up to Jordan. How can you beat a man who can play ANYTHING anyone else can in his right hand ... while comping out impossibly complex bass and chord figures in his left hand (or vice versa)?

I'd give the number two slot to Robert Fripp -- when that man pulls out his technique ... it's astounding! He's been playing faster, more adventurous and far more complex leads than modern dudes like Yngwie, Vai and anyone else since the late 60s. Amazing. And, save for two-handed stuff like Jordan's music, which I have never seen him attempt, he is a virtuoso within any genre he chooses to play: Classical, jazz, prog, rock, etc.

As for number three? I don't know ... I'd probably give it to some classical superstar like Lyonna Boyd. She's got more chops than a butcher.

How about you?

Thanks,

_Richard

[SunDemon18]

jason becker... there is none better ever hes like the buddy rich of drums or was... maybe one day we will see his excellence again

[alencore]

eric johnson! my man on the guitar!

[Rhandulopez]

Allan holdsworth is the man !
No more coments

www.rhandulopez.com

[jagdkommando]

for me it's steve vai ... but I'm not a guitarrist :)

[skin snapper]

I play guitar as a second instrument....

I consider steve vai to be very technically advanced, he has an amazing understanding of how a guitar works, how to get the sounds he wants and man, can he shred some strings....

I quite like ywngie just because i reckon his style is darned cool, like u know, he just sounds good

SATCH IS GOD, i love satch's stuff, he's amazing, he just controls the sound waves instead of the strings

Tony Iommi, from black sabbath, you can't not love him

[DanBritt]

Richard,

Nice call on Stanley! ... I have a list toward the top of my homepage that describes my favorite guitarist and Stanley is first! The man is amazing, and the depth of his emotional playing is huge!

[Matthias]

I love john petrucci, and since I'm a drummer too and I don't know too much about guitars, the first who comes to my mind is simon hosford, know him just from OTV, but those guitars sound great!!

[morgenthaler]

In their prime, guitarists like John McLaughlin and Al Di Meola were technically stunning!
McLaughlin still is in in my ears!

[jimi]

Paco de Lucia is another name to mention!

[richcapo]

Paco de Lucia is another name to mention!

Paco, John McG, Al Dimeola, etc. ... all those guys are great, but I don't think even their most complicated stuff comes anywhere near as being as technically advanced as, say, "Fracture" by Robert Fripp or any random song by Stanley Jordan.

Just wondering ... how many people on this board are actually familiar with Jordan's music and technique?

I'm not exaggerating when I say that Jordan can play ANYTHING any of the other guitarists in this thread play in one hand, while comping incredible bass and chord progressions in the other. He's that good. And I don't think it's going too far out on a limb to assume that none of those other guitarists can play even the most simple song by Jordan.

(TANGETAL NOTE: Occassionally, Jordan even plays two guitars at once, if you can imagine it.)

_Richard

[Rany]

I totally agree with Rhandulopez: Holdsworth is the man!
Beside its incredible technique, his compositions are usually complex in a rhythmic sense, what makes them specially interesting for drummers ;)

Recently, I´ve read a Virgil interview in Modern Drummer Brasil, where he mentions his interest to play with Holdsworth sometime in the future. Hope it happens!

Rany

[jimi]

Hmmm, Stanley Jordan, must definitely check him out!! Is he just as musical though with his insane ablility??

[richcapo]

Hmmm, Stanley Jordan, must definitely check him out!! Is he just as musical though with his insane ablility??

He plays very traditional jazz, mostly (there's a pop-fusion album out, but it's not good). Live, he is, perhaps, the best musician I have ever seen. If you don't like traditional jazz, however, you might find his albums boring.

I recommend these albums: "Magic Touch" and "Stolen Moments" (Live).

I more strongly recommend seeing the man live ... it's darn near a religious experience.

_Richard

[C.J.]

I really listen to guitarists, And the guys who are really advanced in my opnion (and my guitarist's friend too actually) would be Tony McAlpine, Steve Vai, John Petrucci (I would say he's the Donati of the guitar), Stanley Jordan, Mattias 'IA' Eklundh and Yngwie J. Malmsteen.

[drummaman1]

Stanley Jordan - Great
Steve Morse - Great
Allan Holdsworth - no comparison - great

Some of the ones I love, including these guys are:

John Abercrombie - very melodic, intriguing, great finger style

John Scofield - funky, funky, funky...phrases like a saxophone player

John McLaughlin - sounds and ideas unmatched

Eddie Van Halen - ? Yeah! Riffs, Licks and solos...some of the best rock music ever written.

Pat Metheny - sound, compositions, ideas...great.

More to come... :)

[soulnomad]

[I]The most technically advanced guitarists(In my opinion):
Kevin Eubanks
Wayne Krantz
Shawn Lane
Pat Martino
John McLaughlin
John Scofield
Mike Stern

[tom.v]

i prefer holsworth,mclaughlin,macalpine etc. to stanley jordan but stanley jordan is probably technically the best

[MaltBuddow3]

Bill Hatcher is the best...

[SunDemon18]

you guys really need to check out jason becker lol..... the best have tried his shit and failed on the perpetual burn album there is also some sick ass drumming from atma anur. anything becker did tore yngwie all to peices.... i play guitar as well as drums and iv learned sevel malmsteen songs but dont know where to really start with the jason becker stuff its really insane.

[alencore]

anyone here can play Eugene Trick Bag as fast as Steve Vai or clean enough?

[Drumblast]

Stanley Jordan. I agree completely. I was fortunate to befriend Stanley when I was in college. I hung out with him and his band for a week, they were on a break and stayed in my college town. I witnessed Stanley for several hours in his practice room at the hotel. Let me tell you, the stuff he was doing was simply mind boggling. He was playing piano duets and other crazy things. He has never recorded this kinda stuff. His true genius can only be witnessed.

A couple of years later, he came back to my school for another show, and he invited me to stay with them at the next show at another college. Kenwood Dennard was with him at the time----he's amazing. Anyway we joked about him playing a guitar with his feet.

Stanley Jordan was the one who really influenced me to go for being a musician. He is and was a true inspiration in my life.

[C.J.]

Oh yeah Soulnomad, I completely forgot about Shawn Lane, he was one hell of a guitarist techically a true monster !!

R.I.P. Mr. Lane hope your jammin' up there.

[richcapo]

Stanley Jordan. I agree completely. I was fortunate to befriend Stanley when I was in college. I hung out with him and his band for a week, they were on a break and stayed in my college town. I witnessed Stanley for several hours in his practice room at the hotel. Let me tell you, the stuff he was doing was simply mind boggling. He was playing piano duets and other crazy things. He has never recorded this kinda stuff. His true genius can only be witnessed.

A couple of years later, he came back to my school for another show, and he invited me to stay with them at the next show at another college. Kenwood Dennard was with him at the time----he's amazing. Anyway we joked about him playing a guitar with his feet.

Stanley Jordan was the one who really influenced me to go for being a musician. He is and was a true inspiration in my life.

No doubt ... he's the best. And I love the sort of "never records" stuff he does that you mention: Seen him live a few times -- when he gets down with fugues and other classical/baroque pieces, nothing's better. Too bad he never records that stuff.

Actually, that's probably a good thing: Otherwise we'd have legions of suicidal Yngwie fans on our hands. Once they realized that Jordan's where it's at, that is.

_Richard

[vdreignsuponus1]

steve vai
rusty cooley
george bellas
john petrucci
michael angelo
michael romeo
tony mcalpine
greg howe
tj helmerich
yngwie malmsteen
joe satriani (hes boring in my oppinion though)
paul gilbert
jason becker

that about covers spacifics..

[CarpathiasRise]

John petrucci all the way!

[alencore]

joe satriani boring? dude try play some of his stuff and tell me then.
joe is very musical afaic unlike those other shredding freaks like malmsteen. hear one song from him and the rest are all the same in terms of notes and speed.

[alencore]

seems no one hear checked out Earl klugh. another very musical guitarist just like stanley is. hey drumblast lucky you.

[«•Ð®џmҖߣ∆§T∑Я•]

I'd say Jason Becker... The first time I saw him playing "Serrana" I was completely amazed by his technique and his INSANE speed guys - I'd had never seen something similar... And I do respect him so much because he was so young!! just 16 years old and being able to play wacky shit like that!! is awesome. And it's not just because his insane speed - I love listening to his blues stuff -is really great... He's been such an inspiration for me :)

I consider him one of the best guitar players have ever existed.

[alencore]

well, i forgot to mentioned the guy who inspired me to be as humble as can be then kick ass onstage. he also revolutionized this neo-classical style of guitar playing....Mr. Randy Rhoads.

[NO_CHRIS]

No offense to anyone who does enjoy Yngwie's playing, but he is shit. Sure he is insanely fast, but besides that, he hasn't got a thing. He has no concept of jamming or grooving, all he can do is shred. This is most evident on the G3 DVD when they do the collaboration at the end of the show. Satriani and Vai are there jamming together, and Yngwie is just standing to the side shredding over the top of it and totally ruining the whole song. The fact that he played on the G3 tour was a travesty. They went from Petrucci to him? What were they thinking?
Back to the topic at hand. I personally think that it's all about Vai, Satriani, Petrucci (I wish that G3 tour came to Australia), MacAlpine (his tap-sweeping combination is breath-taking. One of the best things I've ever seen done on a guitar) and I also love Ben Weinman from Dillinger Escape Plan, everything that guy does is absolutely insane and intense, especially his tapping.
Chris

[C.J.]

I agree he can be ennoying, myself I do not like him that much, but where talking about technique here, and you gotta admit it, he is very advanced.

But just to come back to the fact that you said he can only shred, you should get a on the concert "Yngwie Malmsteen - Concerto Suite Live with the New Japan Ph Orchestra". That is one hell of a concert !!

[shaftninja]

Weinman. Sweeeet.

[joe_schmoe]

didnt read all this, but let me say:
j.mclaughlin
holdsworth
greg howe


martino
metheny
le
scofield

and others

oh by the way,

jeff tain watts for president

[Fede]

I'm playing a gig this Wednesday back in Copenhagen with one of my bands (Barock). We'll be playing with another band that has a guitarist that I with all my heart believes is every bit as good as all the guys you have mentioned. He is 25 years or so and from Copenhagen, and I can understand why everybody will go "sure you're right" when I'm saying this....

...that's why I'm hoping I can record them, as I'll already have my recording gear with me on the gig, so I'm thinking I might take my videocamera along, and then hopefully (if their permission) upload a couple of clips to back my words.

Jeppe, if you're reading this and for some reason not going to see Jonberg - you should definately come and see this guy! Screw my band ;) - but come and see him! It's in the aqaurium at the Rythmic Conservatory (a stage that Virgil himself has performed on!). They will be playing covers only: Extreme, Vai, Freak Kitchen and Yngwie.

So I hope I'll be back later with some videoclips of this phenomenon!

[DavidPartay]

I've always really enjoyed Macalpine's playing, but I haven't heard *that* many guitarists... But I've heard Steve Vai and Dave Weiner (on the Live at the Astoria DVD), obviously John Petrucci, the guy from Primus, the two guitarists from Strung Out, and I'm sure there's more but most of the names you guys have mentioned are copmletely foreign to me :)

[MaltBuddow3]

The guitarist for Primus is Larry Ladonde... "Ler"

not saying he's the best

I must say that Vai is a monster, but there are many better than he is.

[skin snapper]

All this jazz 2 handed chapstick style loving annoys me, steve vai is like a suped up john petruccie for all you shred fans alongside music skills and what was that, he can play hendrix, like hendrix, seriously, he is god.
the whole 2 handed thing, doesnt appeal as someone who plays it, you would be surprised how hard it looks and seems, compared to how hard it really is, i may not be able to do it like the pros, but i see difficulty in steve vai and satch and rhoades, not in 2 handed tapping.

[MaltBuddow3]

Skin... I can almost garuantee you that the reason you don't like Stanley Jordan's playing is b/c you don't understand his concept and the music he plays. I'm not trying to put you down, b/c I'm fairly new to jazz myself. But once I started to comprehend what I was hearing, I really started diggin it.

[C.J.]

Okay you may like alot Stanley Jordan, I do too, but this guy is not one of the most advanced players techically (that's the name of the thread right ?), he only masters one technique which is 8 fingered tapping.

Guitarist's like John Petrucci, Mattias Eklundh, Jason Becker and Shawn Lane (RIP dude I love ya !) have all mastering in tapping, sweeping, picking etc...

Ok Jordan is really good, ok he plays like hell, but I do not agree to say that he is one of the most advanced technically speaking. With all the respect I have for him, his picking is so lame compared to guys like Paul Gilbert, Micheal Angelo or John Petrucci. Same thing concerning sweeping against guys like "IA" Eklundh or MacAlpine.

I agree technique is not about everything, but that what this thread is about.

That is my opinion on Jordan, the pianist who wanted to do his way.

Cheers drum brothers.

[richcapo]

Okay you may like alot Stanley Jordan, I do too, but this guy is not one of the most advanced players techically (that's the name of the thread right ?), he only masters one technique which is 8 fingered tapping.

Guitarist's like John Petrucci, Mattias Eklundh, Jason Becker and Shawn Lane (RIP dude I love ya !) have all mastering in tapping, sweeping, picking etc...

Ok Jordan is really good, ok he plays like hell, but I do not agree to say that he is one of the most advanced technically speaking. With all the respect I have for him, his picking is so lame compared to guys like Paul Gilbert, Micheal Angelo or John Petrucci. Same thing concerning sweeping against guys like "IA" Eklundh or MacAlpine.

I agree technique is not about everything, but that what this thread is about.

That is my opinion on Jordan, the pianist who wanted to do his way.

Cheers drum brothers.

I don't mean to sound rude, but it doesn't sound like you know much about Mr. Jordan's playing at all. He does ALL of that stuff. Pick up his "Bolero" album and you can hear him picking. As for sweeping -- Jordan loves to play arpeggios all up and down the neck. He'll often do that while comping out bass and chord patterns or playing scalar runs in his other hand.

It's not as if Jordan only plays Eddie Van Halen type of "piddly diddly dee" taps ... he does it all with his two-handed approach. And he is FAR more technical than any of the other guitarists named in this thread -- none of whom have the technical ability to play their rhythms and leads SIMULTANEOUSLY, as Jordan does.

_rc

[D. Slam]

Allan Holdsworth is the most technically proficient guitarist I can think of. What Stanley Jordan does is pretty amazing to watch but to listen to it on record, it's actually a bit sloppy. Allan makes every note count, as does Steve Vai. I also like Steve Morse and Wayne Krantz in this catagory.

D.

[C.J.]

You're not rude at all we are here to talk about this, I'm not rying to convince you, even though I said I do not agree when people here say that Jordan is the most advanced, it is my personnal opinion.

But I'm saying what I'm saying beacause me and my friend (who happens to be a virtuoso on the guitar so he confirment my thoughts) have seen him in a masterclass with Will Cahoun, and he exposed all his technique. It only after witnissing that masterclass that I am affirming what I say

" As for sweeping -- Jordan loves to play arpeggios all up and down the neck. He'll often do that while comping out bass and chord patterns or playing scalar runs in his other hand." how can he sweep with only one hand ? You need two hands to sweep...

Friendly,
Chris.

[richcapo]

You're not rude at all we are here to talk about this, I'm not rying to convince you, even though I said I do not agree when people here say that Jordan is the most advanced, it is my personnal opinion.

But I'm saying what I'm saying beacause me and my friend (who happens to be a virtuoso on the guitar so he confirment my thoughts) have seen him in a masterclass with Will Cahoun, and he exposed all his technique. It only after witnissing that masterclass that I am affirming what I say

" As for sweeping -- Jordan loves to play arpeggios all up and down the neck. He'll often do that while comping out bass and chord patterns or playing scalar runs in his other hand." how can he sweep with only one hand ? You need two hands to sweep...

Friendly,
Chris.

Nah ... just one, when you're playing touch style. I've been a guitarist for 19 years -- more so than a drummer (which is only about 10), so I kinda know what I'm talking about. A sweep is merely an arpeggio executed so that each note is killed after articulated. Jordan does this by muting the string with his hand after each hit in the arpeggio sequence. You don't need a pick to do a sweep any more than you need a pick to run through a scale.

Question: Your friend "exposed" whose technique with Will Calhoun? Jordan's? Your friend can play Stanley Jordan, or did he simply show you a few tapping things and present that to you as demonstrative of Jordan's technique (and you believed him)?

I ask this because if you take a look at some of Jordan's sheet music, I don't see how there is any comparison between Jordan and guys like Vai, Petrucci, or any of the others you cited. And I have a hard time believing that your friend would say those guys are more technical than Jordan, if that is what he believes. Think about it: Jordan will play, at the very least, as difficult runs, sweeps, solos, etc., as any of those guys ... but he'll do that while playing impossibly syncopated rhythms and basslines with his other hand -- at the same time. How can that not be more technical than what any of those guys do? I mean, literally, he's playing at least TWICE as much guitar at any given time than any of those guys.

There are scores more technical guitarists* than guys like Vai, Gilbert, or whoever (*ex: Holdsworth, Jordan, Trey Gunn, Lyonna Boyd, Eric Johnson, Steve Howe, Mike Keneally, Vernon Reid, Jimmy Bruno, etc.). Those guys all play fast, sure, but the patterns they play aren't generally all too difficult. Take Vai's "For the Love of God," for instance. Fast ... but incredibly simple patterns. Seriously, download some of their guitar tab. You'd be surprised at just how basic their fast parts are.

Now, take something like Robert Fripp's playing on King Crimson's "Fracture" or on "Larks' Tongues in Aspic IV" or even the runs on "21st Century Schizoid Man" ... those runs are not only fast, but they are impossibly complex. Comparing what Robert Fripp plays to what guys like Vai plays is like comparing "Wipe Out" to Neil Peart's "Didacts and Narpets" -- both are fast, but one is WAY more complex than the other.

I don't mean to disappoint anyone here, but as with most things in music, the best guitarists are generally not the guys paraded around as the "most technical" or "fastest" or "most chopperific" by the fan press. The best guitarists are usually guys who rarely receive any coverage at all. And for good reason, too, I think: Gilbert, Malmsteen, Vai, Petrucci, etc. -- they all give aspiring guitarists goals that are reasonably attainable. They raise the bar, but not so high that clearling it becomes impossible. But guys like Jordan? All they give you are reasons to quit playing. They don't jump a high bar. They fly to the Moon.

And if that don't convince ya, consider this: I was playing Vai stuff like "I would Love To," "The Audience is Listening" and "For the Love of God" when I was 14 -- and I pulled it off pretty faithfully, I think.

I'm 28 now. And I still don't have a prayer in hell of playing even the easiest piece by Stanley Jordan. Hell, even Steve Morse is blown away by Jordan -- he aspires to be able to play some of Jordan's stuff, as he admitted ten or so years back in Guitar Player. Can't really do it, but he tries.

Simply put: From what I can tell, there's nothing those udder mugs can play with two hands that Jordan can't with one -- hell, he'll do it all while playing a Bach fugue in the other. But there's TONS of stuff that Jordan does ... that those guys could never do on their best day.

_Richard

[C.J.]

Okay you've made your point.

Just to clear that story about my friend: what I meant was he and I saw Jordan who played with Cahoun for a sort of a concert masterclass thing. And when he exposed his technique and Co. We both thought that he was very impressive, but that his picking and sweeping weren't as good as the other guitarist's I mentioned.

As for what you say about the "publicity" done for those guys, I would like to mention that I live in France, and over here guys like that are no way covered by the fan press or the TV etc. There's barely any coverege for those guys.

Cheers.

[skin snapper]

Ok, what you've done is contradicted yourself, lets just listen to someone, who may be only thirteen, but i've bein playing guitar since i was 6 and only stoped classical a year ago....

Ok, first and foremost, jordan aint that impresive, sorry to tell you, you talk about musicality, what about phrasing, the guys a chapstick loving monster, yes, true, but musically wise, he lacks so much.

Steve vai in my opinion whips his candy 8 fingered you know what, if his things are the same as steve, how come Vai does it with 1 hand and vai is surprisingly, faster then someone who uses 8 fingers...

PLease dont try and act like i'm new to guitar, it's just patronising.

Yngwie for instance, fast beyond belief and you would be surprised how many of the little intonations people don't realise about his playing, you slow anything by ynwgie down, somehow it's musical, he probably just hears melodies faster then the normal person.

Steve vai, same as above, he does everything so fast, on the riddle he gets something like 20.9 notes per a second, that's fast as fast can go and seriously, slow that down to, it sounds musical, as above, their melodies are just lost to most, i myself need to use programs that slowq music down, to fully appreciate their musical as well as shredding skill.

Jordan, he might be able to use 2 hands, but pfft, who cares, virgil uses 2 hands and 2 feet, steve vai uses 2 hands, in different ways im sorry, but you've exagurated his skill beyond belief, i have heard his things and my reaction to all is, meh.

Maybe, im stuck in my ways of speed and musicality and i am not impressed by someone who somehow has the most amazing skill, to wank off with both hands...

I'm sorry, i re-read this and it seems horribly agressive and for that i apologise, this is just a really big hatred i have, i'm sorry if i've offended any of you.

[shaftninja]

'Technically advanced'? This guy's been playing for less than a decade: www.francescofareri.com :eek:

[D. Slam]

richcapo, CJ,

Any technique is only good for what it's being applied to and for at the time. You can't take two separate styles that require two different techniques and try to decide which one works better. Steve Vai has certain techniques that work for his concepts, as does Stanley Jordan, and the results are totally different.

The two CANNOT be compared with one another in the manner that you're trying to compare them. The end result in their approches are not the same, nor are they meant to be.

And as far as simplicity goes, triplets on the kit is a very simple pattern to play, but can become quite difficult at speed. So simple patterns played fast can be a whole different ball game than playing them slow or at moderate speed.

D.

[skin snapper]

True, but by the same point, we are trying to compare and if someone can play that triplet at any god damned speed anywhere on or around the kit, i think that's far more advanced then doing a standard warm up exercise, but robert fripp i agree on, not quite the thing i like, but yeh, he is amazing.

[D. Slam]

True, but by the same point, we are trying to compare and if someone can play that triplet at any god damned speed anywhere on or around the kit, i think that's far more advanced then doing a standard warm up exercise, but robert fripp i agree on, not quite the thing i like, but yeh, he is amazing.

Yes, but my point is, under the circumstances, you CAN'T compare the two unless they're both doing triplets.

[C.J.]

I see what you mean, but my statement came from this point: the mastering of diferent techniques on the guitar.

It is as if you took two drummers, and you compared their mastering of the different rudiments. It's like jordan would be a single stroke player only, and would apply it in many indepence exercices. But the guys I mention would master quite well singles, doubles, diddles, flams.

That's is how made my opinion.

Nevertheless, I respect Jordan just as much as all the others. I actually watched his dvd this morning.

Sorry if I seemed to be agressive or anything.

C.J.

[MaltBuddow3]

I love Wayne Krantz too! Greenwich Mean is awesome!

Skin, how can you honestly say that what Vai, Petrucci, and Yngie are doing is something more than wanking off? Sure, they all have their moments of beautiful melodic ideas, but for the most part they musically masturbate, in the words of my father, nonstop! When it comes to sheer technique, these guys are at the top of the list, but a lot of other players can do all that stuff too. There's a world of players out there who have the technique, but don't use it all the time.

Ya see, I'm in a pickle... I love prog, but right now I'm going to school to study jazz. And although this is my first semester, I am starting to realize how so much of prog is really just BS. I love it still, but it doesn't quite do it for me like it used to, at least in a musical sense. I took your side earlier this year Skin, but I've been exposed to a lot of different players now, and there are a lot more people out there doing that kinda stuff in a much more musical sense.

That being said... I still can't wait to see DT again!

Oh yeah... while we're on the topic... Charlie Hunter is a maniac!!! He can walk bass lines and shred a Petrucci solo at the same time. Take that and rewind it back! haha.

[Leaping Cat]

Lenny Cravitz
All the way!!!!

[Leaping Cat]

.....Im glad to hear that Fracesco Fareri can do sloppy arpechios (dont know how to spell it). I got bored fast with that stuff. That dude needs to make some music instead.

[D. Slam]

I see what you mean, but my statement came from this point: the mastering of diferent techniques on the guitar.

It is as if you took two drummers, and you compared their mastering of the different rudiments. It's like jordan would be a single stroke player only, and would apply it in many indepence exercices. But the guys I mention would master quite well singles, doubles, diddles, flams.

That's is how made my opinion.

Nevertheless, I respect Jordan just as much as all the others. I actually watched his dvd this morning.

Sorry if I seemed to be agressive or anything.

C.J.

You have no reason to apologize C.J. And I hear what you're saying. I'm just a firm believer that each approach requires it's own technique. And because of that, I find it hard to compare say, a classical guitarist to one that plays a different kind of music and uses a pick, in terms of who is the better player. In my opinion, you have to at least get them on same playing field, trying to accomplish similar results.

D.

[richcapo]

Ok, what you've done is contradicted yourself, lets just listen to someone, who may be only thirteen, but i've bein playing guitar since i was 6 and only stoped classical a year ago....

Ok, first and foremost, jordan aint that impresive, sorry to tell you, you talk about musicality, what about phrasing, the guys a chapstick loving monster, yes, true, but musically wise, he lacks so much.

Steve vai in my opinion whips his candy 8 fingered you know what, if his things are the same as steve, how come Vai does it with 1 hand and vai is surprisingly, faster then someone who uses 8 fingers...

PLease dont try and act like i'm new to guitar, it's just patronising.

Yngwie for instance, fast beyond belief and you would be surprised how many of the little intonations people don't realise about his playing, you slow anything by ynwgie down, somehow it's musical, he probably just hears melodies faster then the normal person.

Steve vai, same as above, he does everything so fast, on the riddle he gets something like 20.9 notes per a second, that's fast as fast can go and seriously, slow that down to, it sounds musical, as above, their melodies are just lost to most, i myself need to use programs that slowq music down, to fully appreciate their musical as well as shredding skill.

Jordan, he might be able to use 2 hands, but pfft, who cares, virgil uses 2 hands and 2 feet, steve vai uses 2 hands, in different ways im sorry, but you've exagurated his skill beyond belief, i have heard his things and my reaction to all is, meh.

Maybe, im stuck in my ways of speed and musicality and i am not impressed by someone who somehow has the most amazing skill, to wank off with both hands...

Snapper:

Jordan's phrasing is impeccable -- and far more melodic, in my opinion, than guys like Vai or Malmsteen. In addition, he is WAY faster than those guys when he wants to be -- and, yes, I mean in one hand (whichever he feels like using at the moment) he is faster. Pick up his new (and first) DVD and listen to his rendition of Stairway to Heaven, Eleanor Rigby or Return Expedition and you'll see what I mean.

And please dial down the aggressive tone of your posts. Your hostility is uncalled for.

By the way, what Jordan music have you listened to?

_Richard

[richcapo]

richcapo, CJ,

Any technique is only good for what it's being applied to and for at the time. You can't take two separate styles that require two different techniques and try to decide which one works better. Steve Vai has certain techniques that work for his concepts, as does Stanley Jordan, and the results are totally different.

The two CANNOT be compared with one another in the manner that you're trying to compare them. The end result in their approches are not the same, nor are they meant to be.

And as far as simplicity goes, triplets on the kit is a very simple pattern to play, but can become quite difficult at speed. So simple patterns played fast can be a whole different ball game than playing them slow or at moderate speed.

D.

I don't agree, given that there is comparable points between their playing. For instance, you can compare their leads like you can the leads of any other two players. Who is faster, more complex, etc.? If you can't compare them in that respect, than you can't compare any guitarists.

In addition, you can compare the complexity of their rhythm work, compositional sense, etc.

In the end of the day, Stanley Jordan's music is FAR more technically arduous than anything Steve Vai plays. It simply takes more skill to play his music than Vai's. That's pretty undeniable in my opinion. Jordan can play any lead Vai does -- while playing Vai's rhythms. Vai can't do that, however. And I don't think he could play something like Jordan's version of "Eleanor Rigby" either.

On a related note, sometimes you can even compare the difficulty of two different instrumentalists: For instance, I personally believe that it takes more technique to play one of Virgil's solos than it does to play "Mary Had a Little Lamb" on guitar. Do you disagree?

And as far as simplicity goes, triplets on the kit is a very simple pattern to play, but can become quite difficult at speed. So simple patterns played fast can be a whole different ball game than playing them slow or at moderate speed."

Granted ... but moot. As Jordan's (or Fripp's, etc.) patterns are FAR more complex than mere triplets. He's playing complex patterns at high speed, not simple one's at high speed, which elevates them to a whole other technical level. Much as Virgil's ridiculously complex patterns are more technicallly demanding at high speed than someone else's simple patterns played at equally high speed are, no?

_Richard

[richcapo]

Oh yeah... while we're on the topic... Charlie Hunter is a maniac!!! He can walk bass lines and shred a Petrucci solo at the same time. Take that and rewind it back! haha.

I agree. As with Stanley Jordan and Robert Fripp, Hunter's style of playing is FAR more technically demanding and impressive than Petrucci's. It simply takes MORE to do what Hunter does than what Petrucci does.

_Richard

[C.J.]

Don't take this badly, but you really seem to idolise these guys. Whether Jordan is better or not than whoever, you seem to base your jugement on taste more that critisisme.

Peace.

[D. Slam]

I don't agree, given that there is comparable points between their playing. For instance, you can compare their leads like you can the leads of any other two players. Who is faster, more complex, etc.? If you can't compare them in that respect, than you can't compare any guitarists.

In addition, you can compare the complexity of their rhythm work, compositional sense, etc.

In the end of the day, Stanley Jordan's music is FAR more technically arduous than anything Steve Vai plays. It simply takes more skill to play his music than Vai's. That's pretty undeniable in my opinion. Jordan can play any lead Vai does -- while playing Vai's rhythms. Vai can't do that, however. And I don't think he could play something like Jordan's version of "Eleanor Rigby" either.

On a related note, sometimes you can even compare the difficulty of two different instrumentalists: For instance, I personally believe that it takes more technique to play one of Virgil's solos than it does to play "Mary Had a Little Lamb" on guitar. Do you disagree?



Granted ... but moot. As Jordan's (or Fripp's, etc.) patterns are FAR more complex than mere triplets. He's playing complex patterns at high speed, not simple one's at high speed, which elevates them to a whole other technical level. Much as Virgil's ridiculously complex patterns are more technicallly demanding at high speed than someone else's simple patterns played at equally high speed are, no?

_Richard

I never said that you couldn't compare them... As guitar players, of course you can. What I said was you can't compare them in the manner in which they were being compared. They both would have to be playing the same game before you can have at least a remote chance of objectively choosing which one is a better player.

Jordan's concept is to sound like more than one instrument playing at once. He uses a completely different picking method than a conventional guitar player does. Sometimes he plays two guitars at once. Vai, and other guitarists like him do not do this.

They're on two different sides of the fence when it comes to approach and purpose. You can't take a baseball player and a football player and try to decide which one is better.... Better at what?! There has to be some commonality between them other than the fact that they're both athletes in general.

The only thing Vai and Jordan have in common is they play the same instrument, and the methods used to play them are as different as day and night. Outside of that, it's more personal preference in deciding which approach and purpose you like.

"For instance, I personally believe that it takes more technique to play one of Virgil's solos than it does to play "Mary Had a Little Lamb" on guitar. Do you disagree?"

Actually, Yes! I do disagree... It doesn't take any MORE technique, it just takes a different technique. Again, a given technique is relative only to what it's being applied to and for at the time. Consider this, while one might be able to play a Virgil solo, he may struggle at playing "Mary had a little lamb".

D.

[Leaping Cat]

You guys have got it all wrong! Who cares if one guy can play 3 bpm's faster than another dude!.....THEY PLAY MUSIC!!!!! THATS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS!!!! Now coome on and lets stop this bickering. Lets come together and unite with our thoughts, encourage eachother and support eachothers tastes. Thats the only way to unity my brothers.

[D. Slam]

You guys have got it all wrong! Who cares if one guy can play 3 bpm's faster than another dude!.....THEY PLAY MUSIC!!!!! THATS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS!!!! Now coome on and lets stop this bickering. Lets come together and unite with our thoughts, encourage eachother and support eachothers tastes. Thats the only way to unity my brothers.

Who's bickering??? I agree with you to a point, LC. In the end, it's all about the music. These things matter to some apparently and there's really nothing wrong with that. I fail to see where anybody is bickering though.

It's a debate that to me seems to be remaining friendly at the moment. Just because we sometimes disagree with one another doesn't mean that what we're doing is a bad thing... I've learned something from each and everyone here, whether I agreed with them or not. Everybody's being cool man.... No big deal.

D.

[D. Slam]

Also,

I wrote: "And as far as simplicity goes, triplets on the kit is a very simple pattern to play, but can become quite difficult at speed. So simple patterns played fast can be a whole different ball game than playing them slow or at moderate speed."

richcapo responded: "Granted ... but moot. As Jordan's (or Fripp's, etc.) patterns are FAR more complex than mere triplets. He's playing complex patterns at high speed, not simple one's at high speed, which elevates them to a whole other technical level. Much as Virgil's ridiculously complex patterns are more technicallly demanding at high speed than someone else's simple patterns played at equally high speed are, no?"

I was just responding to the comment you made earlier about simple patterns being played at speed. My point was it doubles the difficulty of the pattern in many cases. So I'm missing where my point is moot.

I like Steve Jordan. And I think what he does is pretty amazing. In my own opinion, he's more interesting to watch than just listen to. On record, he's a bit sloppy. He's not what I would call a precision player (I'm not comparing him to anyone, this is my personal assesment of what he does). Understandable considering what he's doing, but it is what it is.

"Virgil's ridiculously complex patterns are more technicallly demanding at high speed than someone else's simple patterns played at equally high speed are, no?"

Good point, but Virgil plays them clean... If you can't do it cleanly you should either slow it down, or think about a different approach.

Incidently, I really like the term you used: "technically demanding" rather than the one that is most often used: "more technique". the first term makes so much more sense to me...

Good call.

D.

[skin snapper]

I would just like to apologise for one of my comments, upon re-reading i did see the unnnecasery violence implied throughout it.

Sorry, but im all for vai, yngwie and satriani.

[C.J.]

Me for MATTIAS "IA" EKLUHND and RON THAL !!!!!!!!!!!!! \m/

[sabiansoloist]

steve vai
Johnny Winter
Y. Malmsteem
Johnny Ramone............Just Joking

[cjcdrums]

Weiner!
Weiner!

[cjcdrums]

Rusty Cooley
Chris Impelletteri
Shawn Lane
Francesco Fareri
Yngwie Malmsteen
Michael Angelo
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Allen Holdsworth
Stanley Jordan
Paul Gilbert
Tony McAlpine
Frank Gambale
Eric Johnson
John Petrucci
George Bellas
Michael Romeo
Greg Howe
TJ Helmerich
Jason Becker
Mike Keannely
Steve Morse
Ben Weinman
Al Di Meola
Eddie Van Halen
John McLaughlin

[Jake]

Django Reinhart

[PercDudeJR]

Frank Gambale is really technically adavanced also...

But I'd go for Jason Becker :D O' Rocker!

And there are some amazing classical guitarists also.. like David Russel, and the Assad brothers.

[vdreignsuponus1]

Rusty Cooley
Chris Impelletteri
Shawn Lane
Michael Angelo
Francesco Fareri
Yngwie Malmsteen
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Allen Holdsworth
Stanley Jordan
Tony McAlpine
John Petrucci
George Bellas
Michael Romeo
Greg Howe
TJ Helmerich
Paul Gilbert
Jason Becker
Eric Johnson

heh, there u go!:)

[toteman2]

There are guitarists who can play so incrediblely fast it make jaws hit the floor...Malsteen, Batto, Petrucci, etc...Micheal Angello plays sooooo fast!!!!

Thats awsome and everthing but, playing and mastering the guitar is more about tone quality, holding and hitting notes, clarity, emotion, and soul...

Jimmi Hedrix played with sooo much soul, along with Clapton, and Santana...

Very Few Guitar players have masterd both Spectrums...One that truley has is Steve Vai!

He plays with the hands of ten men and the soul of a thousand....So the saying is...

The first time i heard Tender Serender i was compeltley floored!!!!! I had never in my life heard anything on that level...All the emotion and technique!
It totaly blew away what i considered out of this world guitar playing---Vanhalen, Mustain, Hendrix, Slash, Hamit, etc...

Then i started really getting into Vai, and heard songs such as For the Love of God, and Windows to the Soul...I mean NOBODY plays like that...NOBODY!!! He captures your soul and just goes to work....No other guitar player has ever done this for me in the way Vai does...

He even can turn the slowest ballad into a masterpeice...Whispering a Prayer...

I instead of playing the guitar, Vai becomes the guitar...the only thing better than hearing him play, is watching him play....

Thats my opinion...

[yyzke]

Eric Johnson ain't too shabby !!

[cjcdrums]

How do you define mastery? Is the very best player in the world the only master? I believe every person I named has mastered the guitar. I think Virgil Donati has mastered the drum set and so has Thomas Lang. That being said, I also think certain people have a higher degree of mastery, and/or of other "intangibles" such as feel, emotion, etc. When a player commands mastery of all things technical and intangible, he seems to be perceived as a über-master by his observants, i.e. Steve Vai, or Virgil Donati. I guess I really don't have a point here, except that all master musicians are not equal, and some musicans are more equal than others...

[johngregson]

Hi all - just a pedantic point...while musical guitarists are pretty rare, Music is the most important thing BUT the point of this thread was about the most technically advanced players. Being a geetarist myself, I'd say:
Alternate picking - Michael Angelo/Paul Gilbert/John Petrucci/Steve Morse
Sweep - Frank Gambale
Tapping - TJ Helmerich
Anything - Stanley Jordan, Allan Holdsworth...

These aren't necessarily my favourites, just my observations on those technically endowed! Check out Guthrie Govan and Carl Verheyen as well for some scary playing.
Best,
John.

[soulnomad]

Also,

I wrote: "And as far as simplicity goes, triplets on the kit is a very simple pattern to play, but can become quite difficult at speed. So simple patterns played fast can be a whole different ball game than playing them slow or at moderate speed."

richcapo responded: "Granted ... but moot. As Jordan's (or Fripp's, etc.) patterns are FAR more complex than mere triplets. He's playing complex patterns at high speed, not simple one's at high speed, which elevates them to a whole other technical level. Much as Virgil's ridiculously complex patterns are more technicallly demanding at high speed than someone else's simple patterns played at equally high speed are, no?"

I was just responding to the comment you made earlier about simple patterns being played at speed. My point was it doubles the difficulty of the pattern in many cases. So I'm missing where my point is moot.

I like Steve Jordan. And I think what he does is pretty amazing. In my own opinion, he's more interesting to watch than just listen to. On record, he's a bit sloppy. He's not what I would call a precision player (I'm not comparing him to anyone, this is my personal assesment of what he does). Understandable considering what he's doing, but it is what it is.

"Virgil's ridiculously complex patterns are more technicallly demanding at high speed than someone else's simple patterns played at equally high speed are, no?"

Good point, but Virgil plays them clean... If you can't do it cleanly you should either slow it down, or think about a different approach.

Incidently, I really like the term you used: "technically demanding" rather than the one that is most often used: "more technique". the first term makes so much more sense to me...

Good call.

D.Good observation and great point "technically demanding" versus "more technique", it makes perfect sense.
I don't know about the "if it's not clean slow it down" statement though because sometimes it's the "dirt" (slopiness) in example ,second line drumming that gives the music its magic, unless it's a control problem.
But, yeah it's all in the approach and execution of it.
Great call.

[L o C]

I can't beleive everyone left out Mike Keneally. He was one of Zappa's stunt guitarist and tours with Vai occasionally (he is the guy that doubles alot of Vai's guitar solos and always wears the crazy hats) when not with his own projects. Vai has even said, "I believe that Mike Keneally is one of the most creative and gifted musicians God has graced us with," and "I have witnessed him do things on various instruments (at the same time occasionally) that defy reality, and though his technical command of his instruments is extraordinary, it's the profound voice of his inner ear that is truly the trump card of his brilliance." Aside from being an amazing mutli-instrumentalist, he is an incredable song writer. Anyone who has not expirenced his music is missing out.

[johngregson]

Also, I'd agree with that 'more technique' being a bit of a misnomer...everything we do requires some form of technique. The chaps from Sonic Youth who play guitar with drumsticks have technique - just not a very desirable one!

[cjcdrums]

I hear the fastest guitarist ever was Marcus Paus. Apparently, on the song "Caspersens Secret Fetish" he hit 46 notes per second. He may have used some effects to get that speed however, so I don't know. Vai plays 20.7 notes per second at his fastest.

[Brobjer]

My top 5's are:
Steve Lukather, Allan Holdsworth, Scott Henderson, Michael Landau, Brett Garsed.

[morgenthaler]

Richcapo mentioned that the guitar trio ( Di Meola, De Lucia & McLaughlin) might not be as technically advanced as say, Stanley Jordan,- but seriously, McLaughlin masters indian oddtime to the point of indians!!,- and can incorporate this not only in his playing, but also in his compositions, whithout these sounding forced at all.
He's a true master,- I have the deepest respect for him.

[cjcdrums]

My new and improved list v2.1

Rusty Cooley
Chris Impelletteri
Shawn Lane
Francesco Fareri
Yngwie Malmsteen
Michael Angelo
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Allen Holdsworth
Stanley Jordan
Paul Gilbert
Tony McAlpine
Frank Gambale
Eric Johnson
John Petrucci
George Bellas
Michael Romeo
Greg Howe
TJ Helmerich
Jason Becker
Mike Keneally
Steve Morse
Ben Weinman
Al Di Meola
Marcus Paus
Eddie Van Halen
John McLaughlin
Scott Henderson
Jeremy Barnes
Zack Wylde

[cjcdrums]

Also, I've heard that both Terry Bozzio and Marco Minnemann are guitar virtuosos, put I can't substantiate those claims.

[morgenthaler]

Also,- look out for young danish cat,- Daniel Heløy!
He's going to be a force to be recconed with!

[Tom24]

I like Django Reinhardt alot, but mostly for his music. He was quite advanced and while playing with the "hot club du france", you never think about the technical aspect of the music. They are so darn relaxed and musical.

And also i cannot forget Allan Holdsworth, i love the way his solos are flowing like water through the music, and his unique sound which just perfectly fits into one big picture.
Something quite astonishing are his parts on Sherinians "Myhtology", i really don't like the direction Derek is going with his solo things, but Allan is shining, and somehow he makes his way into that kind of music, sweetening all of the overdriven "blam blam blam" of that Zack Wylde.

[C.J.]

Sorry but... Long live IA Eklundh !!!

*C.J. strikes again !*

[C.J.]

Speaking of so, I know this
for guitarists but, are any of
you familiar with his drummer
Bjorn Fryklund ?

[johngregson]

Also, about Django - his Hot Club recordings with Stephane Grappelli are even more mind-boggling when you consider that he could only use TWO fingers of his left hand...

Kinda puts things into perspective, eh?
John.
P.S. Marco Minnemann's guitar playing can be seen on his 'Extreme Drumming' DVD - damn good player, very musical guitarist.
And, yes, Mr. Eklundh is very, very scary indeed.

[XxRockDrummerxX]

Maybe check this place out www.freewebs.com/drumlove

[alencore]

technically advance guitarist..check out kurt cobain...its not easy smashing the guitar...ggrrrr...ngakS!

[autumnlord]

Tony MacAlpine is a phenomenal guitarist. He is extremely technically advanced!

[johngregson]

I could tell from your screen name autumnlord you'd say that!
Great player, on both piano and guitar. Aargh!
I love his solo albums, the playing on them is sick, it always makes me laugh.
Out with the metronome again...
John.

[C.J.]

Speaking of McAlpine's piano work,
I've always found it really great too.
But once a got one of the piano
teachers from the consevatory of
music over here to listen to one of
his Chopin tracks, and he said that
it was an awfull interpretation...

I never got that.

I've finished telling useless and
uninteresting stories..

Bye.

[billy boy]

hi guys
I am new to this board, I saw this thread and had to respond. There is a guitarist in Sydney Australia by the name of Jeremy Barnes who is buy far the most technically advanced player I have seen. He will be doing some clinics through Sydney, Camberra,
Melbourne this year in suport of his first album call "ON". His style is a combination of rock fusion & tastfull shread." Pete Drummond" will be joining him for the shows/ clinics in march/april.

As far as his technical prowess im talking insane speed, clarity & musicality combined.
guitarist such as Tony Mcalpine, Shawn Lane, & Rusty Cooley are fast, but no where near this cat.

"BE SURE TO REMEMBER THE NAME "JEREMY BARNES"

Cheers!!

[johngregson]

billyboy - I can't find any info on Jeremy Barnes on the ol' www, do you know where I could here some of his stuff? He sounds fantastic!
I'm always up for adding to my list of 'irritatingly amazing guitarists who force me to practice harder than ever'...
Cheers!
John.

[johngregson]

Hell, while I'm at it:
"Be sure to remember the name John Gregson."

Well, why not?

John.

[billy boy]

Hi john,
Justed had a look at your site, looks great.
Jeremy's website will be up in the next week or two, his album "ON" will be available through his website & at his clinics.

Cheers!!

[johngregson]

Excellent! I'll look out for it - can't wait to hear this chap in action.
Thanks for your kind comments, by the way, always appreciated!
Best,
John.

[cjcdrums]

John Gregson, you play drums too? If so, which do you find harder to learn?

[cjcdrums]

I read somewhere that this Marcus Paus guy, the guitarist who hit 46.6 notes per second, broke that record when he was only 16! :eek: He's also allegedly very arrogant... more so than even Yngwie!

[johngregson]

cjcdrums - I started playing drums pretty recently. I suppose I find them hard simply because I've been playing music for a long time, and have high expectations! However, I'm advancing on the drums more rapidly than I did on the guitar - that was a slow, painful process I can assure you!
I can't really give a good answer, because when I started the drums, I already had a good background in theory, rhythm, eartraining etc., so that's made it a damn sight easier than if I'd started sans experience.
Ultimately, though, they're both great instruments!
Best,
John.

[cjcdrums]

Cool man, thanks.

[johngregson]

Billyboy - I just heard Jeremy Barnes' track 'On' - bloody hell! Great player - also, he's far more interesting to listen to musically than most 'fastest player alive' guitarists.
Great stuff, I look forward to hearing more from him!
John.

[cillop7]

hey guys, although you guys are talking about the best guitarists, ı couldnt see any of you talking about "marty friedman". ı'm not a guitarist but in my opinion marty is the best guitarist that explains himself totally and makes his listeners feel the emotion.
ı ask u that have you ever listened a solo like in "tornado of souls" & "lucretia" honestly, ha?
he is my favorite at all as a listener, not a guitarist.my top:

- marty friedman

- john petrucci

- greg howe

- jason becker

[johngregson]

Yeah, Marty Friedman rocks! Very musical, and his stuff with Megadeth is actually worth listening to - not just pointless noodling. Fantastic vibrato, Weird picking hand technique, though...
But the point of the thread [I believe, I didn't start it!] was the most technically advanced - and I don't honestly feel that Marty would qualify - but then that's just my opinion, I've certainly spent an inordinate amount of time trying to learn his stuff.
As I've said before here, I definitely agree with Greg Howe being on here, his use of tapping [initially to sound like Holdsworth!] is really mindblowing.
Good choice of guitarists - you have great taste!
John.

[vdreignsuponus1]

johngregson, don't know if ive said this already but it's offly cool having such a good guitarist as a regular member on a message board full of drummers!:)

[johngregson]

Thanks! That's a very nice thing to say - I've actually spent years listening to [and transcribing/studying] drummers, so it's really great to have a forum like this to chat to like-minded people. Plus, I get to talk a load of nonsense about the guitar and people won't correct me...!
Thanks for the welcome, Mr. millenial poster...
Best,
John.

[C.J.]

I second VD (even though I didn't know
that you were a guitarist but heck, it's
cool anyway. Youpi yah Yay !!).

Peace.

[vdreignsuponus1]

heh, i cant help but LOVE this message board!!:D

[billy boy]

Hey guys,
If you want to hear Jeremy Barnes, the fastest, cleanest guitar playing around, visit
www.petedrummond.com.au and go to sound you can hear it there, buy the way pete's drumming performance is amazing as well.

Jeremy's web site will www.jeremybarnes.com. should be up in a week.

Cheers!!

[billy boy]

Sorry guy's
Pete drummond's web site is www.petedrummond.com

Cheers!!

[johngregson]

Yeh, I heard that song on Pete's site - I stand by my comments on the previous page: Wow!
Great stuff, I look forward to hearing more from him...
John.

[cjcdrums]

Hey, here's something I came across in another forum. Amazing stuff!
Tony Smotherman...

http://www.jemfest.com/2003/videos/Tony_Smotherman/tony_2003_05.mpg

[cjcdrums]

Here it is, folks, for your listening (dis)pleasure, the fastest recorded guitar EVER, in the Mr. Cucumber song "Casperson's Secret Fetish". More proof that speed DOES NOT equal musicality. Marcus Paus (at the age of 16!) hits 46.67 notes per second somewhere in there, if you can stand listening to that garbage. He's pretty much blowing chops the whole time, and boy is it fugly! :p

http://fabienm.club.fr/paus/secret.mp3

[alencore]

ok...........now where the hell did i put that tablature of DEE...

[Drumblast]

www.rustycooley.com he rocks! ( Since we are talking shredd, the gutless machine gun barrage of notes. Technical playing with no hint of soul or emotion(that's my personal preference and style of guitar playing!LOL))

[vdreignsuponus1]

yeah dude, ive seen some shredders that i cant watch more than two minutes. it get's terribly annoying!

[C.J.]

Like Francesco Fareri... Listen to his songs : all the same thing.

[Benn]

ok best drummer ever to have walked this earth?????

i like chapin but langs good at the mo (kicks my ass) any of you heard of malcolm garret

[cjcdrums]

Meg White. And Travis Barker.

[Benn]

go john petrucci my guitar obsessed friend says he's the best

[cjcdrums]

Petrucci's awesome, but overrated. I love his parts, but I think technically speaking, guys like Rusty Cooley would blow him away. His sweep-picking in the solo from "Stream of Conciousness" on the Budokan DVD is jaw-dropping. I had to watch that like five times just out of sheer disbelief.

[johngregson]

The most impressive technical thing that Petrucci does (in my opinion, natch) on the Budokan gig is his high-speed legato bit at the end of his solo on 'In The Name Of God' in unison with Jordan. **** me that's hard to play at that speed!
There are plenty of better sweepers out there (janitors, especially) - simply because Petrucci doesn't specialise in it. His alternate picking, however, is pretty damn good!

[vdreignsuponus1]

nah, i dont think he's THAT overrated, very little! petrucci's just SO creative!

[cjcdrums]

The most impressive technical thing that Petrucci does (in my opinion, natch) on the Budokan gig is his high-speed legato bit at the end of his solo on 'In The Name Of God' in unison with Jordan. **** me that's hard to play at that speed!
There are plenty of better sweepers out there (janitors, especially) - simply because Petrucci doesn't specialise in it. His alternate picking, however, is pretty damn good!
You seen Gambale sweep-pick? It's insane!

Nevertheless, that Stream of Consciousness solo "swept" me off me feet!
HA! Get it? Huh? Huh? See, it was a joke, you know, how I said "swept" when we were talking about sweep-picking! Ahhh....

That was bad.... :(

[Benn]

john petrucci

[johngregson]

Yeah! Gambale's one of my bigger influences - his ability to improvise with the technique is mindblowing!
And his chord-melody stuff's killer.
OK, guitar-geek mode off. Honest.

[Benn]

actually to be fair i dont know much about guitars after they play that fast i dont really care i think drums is a never ending hard ass to master much harder than guitar cos soon as you can say go reall fast blah blah blah then youv got fee to master then interdependance which can go forever i mean can you think about playing 4 completely different things at different tempos and completely different time signatures i say anyone doing that can have a slap (laughs). Guitar, pah wimps instument compared to top level drums

[vdreignsuponus1]

i think the hardist instrument to MASTER is piano!

[johngregson]

Derryl Gabel is phenomonal as well - he adds legato and tapping to the Gambale/Holdsworth style - definitely worth checking out, guys and gals...
And Guthrie 'almost world famous' Govan - he kicks arse.

[vdreignsuponus1]

aww snap! gurthrie's the man!:D

[cjcdrums]

Who do you think the greatest technicians out there are, John?
Sweeping:
Tapping:
Alt-picking:
Other:
Whole Package:

[johngregson]

Anyone here tried to be a good violinist? Give that a shot and see how easy it is...
All instruments have their own idiosyncratic advantages and difficulties - drums might be interdependance, violin it'd be tone, piano might be advanced counterpoint, and guitar it's shutting the hell up.
Oh, and the self-pitying aspect that comes with it...

[johngregson]

Sweeping: Frank Gambale, certainly.
Tapping: TJ Helmerich, or Guthrie Govan. [I'll get there one day...]
Alt: Al DiMeola/John McLaughlin/Paul Gilbert/Petrucci/Zakk Wylde/Steve Morse etc....
Other: Hybrid picking - Brett Garsed.
Whole Package: Shawn Lane! And Carl Verheyen.
That's off the top of my head - I'm listening to so many great players at the moment it's hard to pick 'the definitive' few (as if my opinion's definitive!)...
Hope that helps!
John.

[Benn]

aint this a drumers website

[vdreignsuponus1]

BUT, at virgil's site, all musicians r welcome!:D

because..virgil's..THE MAN!

[cjcdrums]

John, when you say hybrid picking, are you talking about tap-sweeping, or economy picking, or what?
(I don't actually play, but I am intregued by guitar...)

[johngregson]

Hybrid picking is playing with the pick and fingers, like a quasi-classical approach - think fingerstyle with a pick!

[cjcdrums]

Oh! Like on Eugene's Trick Bag!

[vdreignsuponus1]

if so, then except not karate kid! all vai *****!

[johngregson]

I'm not sure what you mean about Eugene's trick bag - where is the hybrid picking section? I play it all just with a pick, and I'm pretty sure Vai did as well on the original.

[johngregson]

Oh, and cjc, Economy picking is essentially sweeping (but applied to scales as well as arpeggios).

[cjcdrums]

I'm not sure what you mean about Eugene's trick bag - where is the hybrid picking section? I play it all just with a pick, and I'm pretty sure Vai did as well on the original.
Oh, my guitarist made it sound like that's how you play that song.

Oh, and cjc, Economy picking is essentially sweeping (but applied to scales as well as arpeggios).
I see. Isn't it better to learn how to alternate pick instead of economy pick all the time? It seems like you should be able to interchange them.

[johngregson]

Yeah, alternate picking is an all-round better skill to have mastered, but the speed you can get with economy picking is quite frightening! (and that, after all, is the most important thing...) - I believe Virgil said in an interview a similar parallel was that single strokes are FAR more important than doubles in general drumming - the tone you get with economy picking/doubles is completely different to alternate picking/single strokes. Stretched the analogy far enough yet?
Economy picking is far easier for me (lazy picking hand...I'm left-handed!), so I've spent an inordinate amount of time working on alternate.
Interestingly, Gambale did a video of exercises to improve your guitar technique, and 95% of the exercises were strict alternate picking - he's damn good at switching between them.
Apropos Euqene's Trick Bag - I'd be interested to know about the hybrid picking section, if you know anymore details!
Best,
John.

[MrFizzyCola]

As far as technical progression goes, Jason Becker is god. He had (sad what happened though...) it all down - if you understand guitar stuff, then check out his site - i swear i just die laughing at the sheer ridiculousness of his skill.
In my eyes, Steve Vai is technically awesome, and also creatively awesome. There are plenty of guys out there who have reached similar skill levels, but have continued on a bland path as far as creativity is concerned.
Go Vai!

Waiting for the release of Real Illusions: Reflections in Australia atm...

counting the seconds...

[bateria]

Has anyone mentioned Symphony X's Michael Romeo? I'm no guitar player but I think he's amazing.

[cobra]

Has anyone mentioned Symphony X's Michael Romeo? I'm no guitar player but I think he's amazing.
He is definately my favorite right now... And live... his sound, chops ... just amazing...

[richcapo]

"I was just responding to the comment you made earlier about simple patterns being played at speed. My point was it doubles the difficulty of the pattern in many cases. So I'm missing where my point is moot."

Simple pasages at high speed are difficult, ture. DIFFICULT passages at high speeds are even MORE diificult than simple things at high speeds. Jordan and Fripp play difficult passages fast -- not relatively simple passages fast, as do Via, Petrucci, etc. That is why I said your point is moot.

"I like Steve Jordan."

Stanley Jordan. Steve Jordan is a drummer.

"And I think what he does is pretty amazing. In my own opinion, he's more interesting to watch than just listen to. On record, he's a bit sloppy."

I've never heard him hit a wrong note. If anything, I've heard him being criticized for being too precise.

"He's not what I would call a precision player (I'm not comparing him to anyone, this is my personal assesment of what he does). Understandable considering what he's doing, but it is what it is."

What Jordan music are you thinking of here?

""Virgil's ridiculously complex patterns are more technicallly demanding at high speed than someone else's simple patterns played at equally high speed are, no?""

"Good point, but Virgil plays them clean... If you can't do it cleanly you should either slow it down, or think about a different approach."

I don't believe this applies to Jordan.

"Incidently, I really like the term you used: "technically demanding" rather than the one that is most often used: "more technique". the first term makes so much more sense to me...

Good call."

Thank you.

_Richard

[sandstrom]

Look at TOTO live 90 in Paris. That's exactly how I want the guitar to be played. Steve Lukather- do I need to say more...

[Andrew Dennison]

This guy, Adam Fulara, is certainly amazing. http://adam.fulara.com/e.php?g=music

[Wankmaster Joe]

On one of Dream Theaters songs, The Glass Prison , John Petrucci does something kinda like sweep picking, where he sweeps and picks at the same time.

[bateria]

On one of Dream Theaters songs, The Glass Prison , John Petrucci does something kinda like sweep picking, where he sweeps and picks at the same time.

Yup, I believe that's called exactly what you called it--sweeping. Prog guitarists love to tap as well, where they just tap the frets with their fingertips and get fast flurries of notes.

[Wankmaster Joe]

This guy, Adam Fulara, is certainly amazing. http://adam.fulara.com/e.php?g=music

OMG :eek: he does like polyrhythms on guitar, it's just so funny.

[johngregson]

On one of Dream Theaters songs, The Glass Prison , John Petrucci does something kinda like sweep picking, where he sweeps and picks at the same time.
Are you referring to the opening mad guitar part? Because, though most guitarists would sweep it, Petrucci alternate picks it.
Gosh, am I fun at parties.

[Wankmaster Joe]

Are you referring to the opening mad guitar part? Because, though most guitarists would sweep it, Petrucci alternate picks it.
Gosh, am I fun at parties.

No, he sweep picks it.

[johngregson]

In the intro bit?

[C.J.]

Long live Mattias "IA" Eklundh!!!!! I'm metting him in few weeks. (be jealous!!)

[johngregson]

OK, I've just listened to the Glass Prison. I concede that on the CD, he almost certainly sweeps it (I can hear slight muting problems associated with sweeping, plus the tone's slightly different to alternate picking). However, he alternate picks it live - presumably because it's more in his comfort zone. Mind you, with Petrucci's chops, you could play pretty much anything any way you damn well liked!

[Wankmaster Joe]

OK, I've just listened to the Glass Prison. I concede that on the CD, he almost certainly sweeps it (I can hear slight muting problems associated with sweeping, plus the tone's slightly different to alternate picking). However, he alternate picks it live - presumably because it's more in his comfort zone. Mind you, with Petrucci's chops, you could play pretty much anything any way you damn well liked!

Actually my friend has seen him live and so fas his bass teacher and they said he sweep picked it. I don't know maybe he does it however he feels comfortable at that point in time.

[toteman2]

Anybody have some excellent guitar video or audio they would care to share with us? While I'm a drummer, i have a deep passion for guitar and I"m always inspired by truely fantastic guitar playing...

[cjcdrums]

I second that^

[johngregson]

http://www.gitaarnet.nl/magazine/workshops/carlverheyen/carlverheyen.php3

Clips of my favourite guitarist, Carl Verheyen. I saw him play again last night in Glasgow, and he really should be better know. He's a first-call session dude in LA [that's him playing Hendrix's version of 'The Star-Spangled Banner' on the bar radio in 'From Dusk Till Dawn'!], and I've learned so much from him - check him out!

[nevermore]

jeff loomis

http://www.jeffloomis.com/sounds/jeff-16.mp3

this is a solo he wrote when he was 16, he volunteered for megadeth at that age but he got refused because he played better then mustain, well that's the rumour :D

[Images&Words]

Ron Jarzombek!

[alencore]

randy rhoads spirit still lives on!!!

[frank]

randy rhoads spirit still lives on!!!

Hehe, is this your answer to every post? :p