Linearity Versus Non-Linearity

[peter]

Linearity: notes WITHOUT simultaneous accompaniment of others.

An example of this would be a cymbal crash, without kick.

Non-Linearity: notes WITH simultaneous accompaniment of others.

An example of this would be a cymbal crash, with kick.

Have you noticed how linear Virgil is? Actually, in the last 10-15 years, players have really moved into this direction. Virgil is way out there in the front of the movement, with guys like Weckl.

It's interesting because rock/metal have always been associated with very non-linear patterns. This is another way that Virgil is bending the universe. In jazz, it's more readily tolerated because "almost anything goes" but in rock/metal, it is not welcomed as easily. You can hear it in the music. Suddenly, a driving pattern turns into shattering of glass, which is then miraculously re-constructed before our very eyes.

I think it's great when linear players use linearity with regard to the non-linear structure. In other words, when good linear players play a pattern of "open" notes, they come out them, with non-linear, closed notes, like the ending of such phrase with one or a series of cymbals crashes, ending the little adventure.

Sometimes I'll hear a drummer "overbalance" one way or the other and it bothers me. Other drummers have differed.

Have you guys thought about this? What's your view?

[Adam]

FINALLY!! A drum topic not about the feet or speed!!

Linear drumming is so impressive to me because of the ammount of control it requires. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is NOT hit something.
I've been tapping into this style of drumming recently more than ever. It's amazing what some guys can do.

I personally think that linear, even if you think you'll never use it, it is so great to have that kind of control over a kit, and that kind of cordination.

[peter]

I only recently realized just how linear
I play. Some one had to remind of it. At
the same time, I had to remind myself
that there is a resolution that linearity
needs in many cases and that balance
is the real tough part of the equation.

[kirk]

Linear playing is fantastic but I agree it needs balance to it. When it is played in variation with other facets then it stands out more and makes a bigger statement, than it being thrown at you constantly. Virgil is stunning! to say the least but I like how he combines it(linear) with more 2 and 4 power playing than when he pulls it out it just hit's you more. Virgil has some of ther freshest linear ideas out there, it is what grabbed me with Vinnie and Dave years ago, but Virgil just has a greater command than even those guy's, so he is able to come up with some wilder stuff.

And I agree a very important topic not related to his feet! Virgil's phrasing needs to be talked about more thank's for getting the ball rolling. I guess we could spend month's talking about what this guy does, interdependence, fluidity, dexterity, the power, speed, creativity, consistency it goes on and on, which is good for us.

Regards Kirk

[peter]

Virgil's command of the bottom and this is taking the drumming world by fire, is, in my opinion, one of the great non-linear foundations for his linear applications up top. He really lets go BUT it differs from a Weckl (not to devalue Dave's work at all), for instance, in that there's just so much more being said down there and that "holds down" the house.

Dave's a marvelous drummer. There is no doubt that he is one of the most important drummers in the last 20 years. He has incredible command over the single-kick and is a huge inspiration to me and others (I have played single but will convert soon). He really helped to put linear on the map and deserves a lot of the credit for its literal explosion, right now. He's also got a signature and every drummer dreams of that - something to set them apart. He's in the books - no doubt.

At the same time, Virgil has wielded a steel frame around the linear house of cards and that's really what it is. Linear presentations are very delicate. Sometimes they sound like players are just throwing their sticks at the drums. You have to get used to it, actually. If I listen to just pockets of Virgil, I could find myself trying to walk on water and drowning. It's not until the thunder down under grabs a hold of me and takes me to shore, that I'm feeling OK about what's just transpired. He is re-defining the way linear is to be played.

You are so right, Kirk. His monster 2 and 4 is SO DEAFENING that he can almost do anything and it would be permissable! I heard someone say to me that Virgil has no groove. There's nothing further from the truth but rather than arguing the point and with a proficient drummer, mind you, I chalked it up to bad ears and something more - disbelief.

You know, there's a shock-value to Virgil that we should not overlook and I think Virgil realizes this. He is going to come further down to earth in his future clinics and presentations because he realizes that his alien presence here is just too much for most of us. Most of us hear him and say THERE IS NO WAY. He knows that this idea defeats the whole purpose. That's why he is going to continue to encourage us to BE LIKE VIRGIL.

For those familiar with the film, it wasn't V-GER and it wasn't VOYAGER that Kirk found. It was VIRGIL!

[kirk]

Peter that guy's statement brings up much emotion,People use the "GROOVE" word as an excuse at times, not all the time but at times as nothing more than an instant save face excuse because they just had their be-hind kicked! by someone.

My teacher told me years ago that groove was not about simple or complex but about application for what the theme was. Was Vinny grooving with Zappa when at the time he was playing some of the most over the top insane stuff on the planet, sure he was because it fit, it worked, that is what mattered and also that he was able to pull it off with fluidity and consistency and control.
It had nothing to do with simple or complex, can you imagine Vinny playing 2 and 4 and holding back instead of what he played I do not think so. Same with Virgil what he plays works and fit's what is going on around him, it groove's. How many times have I heard someone say oh but can he play pop-rock, well let me think YEAH!!!! why wouldn't he be able to play it when he does what he does. I do think he can handle the requirements:rolleyes:

Groove is IMO about application and control over what you do not
2 and 4 or anything simple, man some of the most simple stuff I have ever heard played is nothing but CRAP. Some of the most comples stuff played is CRAP. again application(taste) and control
(feel) and I do think Virgil has this, let me think about it Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! yeah he does;)

Regards Kirk

[peter]

I know what you mean, Kirk. You want to say, "Duh..." but we might as well be casting pearls to... Best not to say that. Let me put it this way, how can you expect a man, who's lived in a cave all his life, chained face to the wall, looking at the outside world via the shadows on the wall, to walk out into that radiant world? The sad truth is that what is safe is what's held onto.

Virgil isn't safe.

Something else, if I might:

I have had discussions with MANY players about what the heck groove is. I think I know what it is and where it's found. It's not just in the pulse but the accent of the pulse.

Gadd grooves. Vinnie grooves. Virgil grooves.

These guys are about MAMMOTH quarter notes! Even in their eigth-note pulses, you can hear the sledge hammer coming down and Virgil is no different, excepting that he carries the biggest stick - a pile-driver!

Pete to Kirk: Yes, sir!

[DavidPartay]

Anyone who says that Virgil can't groove either hasn't heard him, is jealous, or is just trying to find an excuse not to like his playing ;).

[jonberg]

You can groove in so many ways...sometimes freejazz stuff grooves for instance and so on.
Those who say that Virgil doesn´t groove etc, maybe compares him to Jeff Porcaro or Bernard Purdie. But they are totally different players man...what it´s all about I think is your personall taste...I guess that freeform jazz trumpeters doesn´t dig Virgils playing at all, but that doesn´t give anyone the right to say that Virgil (or anyone that DOES groove) doesn´t groove!!!

[alencore]

Oh I got some advance lessons of this linear stuff through David Garibaldi's book...darn! can't remember the title but there are certain beats that uses such things and the demo he played sounded so groovy inspite it's technical sense if deciphered each note and how they interlay thus foriming a beat. I tried to learn some but i couldn't get a comfortable feel, damn.

How about permutations?

[peter]

One of the ways of bringing foundation
to linear is incorporating the kick in the
pattern. The lower frequency helps solidify
the sequence. This is one of the reasons
Virgil's patterns are so permissable.

[alencore]

do you have some transcriptions or basic audio demos of this stuff?

[peter]

In a word - Virgil! Another great example is
Dave Weckl. Remember, it's the idea that
no two things are hit at the same time.

When you listen to these guys, listen for
fills that sound a little open, as in crashes,
without kicks etc.

This is an example:

www.thediametrixletter.com/linear1.mp3

You'll hear only one note at a time in this.
Remember, "linear" is as simple as hitting
the cymbal, without the kick.

[Revan]

I think the best use of linear drumming is by using it to supplement non-linear playing. A nice mixture is ideal.

[peter]

Agreed.

[dcdrmwthme]

Hello all, I have the honor of studying with Gary Chaffee, the man who is credited with inventing the linear style. Its an amazing way of playing, and I can honestly say that I have a command over it. (wish I could say that about other areas of my playing!)

Check out Time Functioning Patterns, or Linear Drumming, by Gary Chaffee. These are 2 of his 5 books, and they explain the style rather well.

If anyone is in the NY area, Id be more than happy to have you come to my studio and I'll show you all about it, free of charge!

[Xen-]

Would anyone want to share some of their favorite linear sequences here? The basic Rh Lh Rf Lf will do! :p

I've been applying some basic linear rhythms in my playing, but I recently opened my eyes to Vinnie's linear approach. Some of it really doesn't make sense - to ME! - but when played musically, it's insane! If you don't count, and even if you do, you can get lost in it, and that's a great!

[Matthias]

"Suddenly, a driving pattern turns into shattering of glass, which is then miraculously re-constructed before our very eyes"


"Linear presentations are very delicate. Sometimes they sound like players are just throwing their sticks at the drums."


VEERY beautifully stated, Peter! I actually find myself having the exact same feelings most times when listening to Virgil. I think there are two things that separate Virgil's licks and chops from the others (actually there are more than two, but these two are the most obvious to me), those are: his linearity, and the way he modulates time, with freaky phrases, turned into 5's 6's, then 4's and so on. Sometimes I have a hard time finding the one. Musicians to play with Virgil must have a very strong sense of time, otherwise they get lost after 2 bars of Virgil being Virgil :D !

[johngregson]

Actually, I think Virgil might be quite easy to play with - if you listen to his bizarre modulations, he frequently states a 4/4 pattern in one limb - he somehow manages to relate all his weird ideas into a form which people can (sometimes!) follow.
He's got a truly grounded and musical sense of time.
But I won't know until I get to jam with him (hint, hint, Virgil). Then I'll let you know!
Best,
John.

[peter]

Virgil is so 1/4 note solid, that everything he
does seems to fit everywhere.

Gadd is the same way but a totally different
animal, altogether.

[Matthias]

Yes, but I think for a non-drummer it could be more difficult to hear those "hints of the actual time". Non-drummers (at least the amateur-musicians :D ) quite often get easily distracted by phrasings and modulations that naturally lead the ear in a wrong direction.

But maybe you're right, and besides, I think Virgil is wise enough, and self-confident enough to match his playing with the goal to support the music best, and - as Peter and Kirk stated - groove by playing the right thing in the right place, so noone would be misled... He doesn't have to show of all the time or "be Virgil" just for the sake of having fun or enjoying himself.

[Xen-]

When Virgil is counting, you can definitely hear the pulse. Weckl is like that, too.

The other way around is Vinnie. The musicians around him always count. They have no choice.

I'm in favor of the musical approach to linear sequences, but sometimes giving a hard time (get it?) to your musicians can be quite fun!

[johngregson]

Yeh, I agree - I've tried playing along to "I'm Tweeked" a few times and it always makes me feel really envious of Mike Landau...!

[Xen-]

On ''I'm Tweeked'', how does he keep track of where he is? It's a complete mess, yet it works...

[johngregson]

Well - it's a 4/4 loop, which Vinnie played to AFTER the other musicians. Live, he's playing 16th-note displacements of a standard 4/4 beat, and the band just have to keep locked in with the loop.
It's VERY frustrating! And, typically, they make it look so easy.
That's why we practice!
Well, that's why I practice...
Best,
John.

[Xen-]

I mean do you think he refers to the other guys playing with the loop or does he count in his head?

Because if the musicians you play with keep it solid, you can basically do what you want and come back in as you hear the song being played. Counting displacements and time signature modulations in your head in relation to the song, on the other hand, is much harder.

I'd like to hear Vinnie play displacements with Landau solo over it, see if they can lock it...

[johngregson]

I think he'll be counting in 4/4 in his head. Look at players such as the scarily precise Gavin Harrison (Porcupine Tree/solo stuff) - he does a lot of similar displacement ideas to a metronome.
To be honest, I'd say it's far harder for the rest of the band to lock in with the loop - but then I would say that, wouldn't I?

[cjcdrums]

Gavin Harrison is a FREAK! He is seriously like a computer.

[Xen-]

Some musicians I play with can't do it, they don't understand the concept. They can't even play a loop. Some don't seem to be listening to me, so it works very well. They feel the subdivisions, I think.

[IronCobraMan]

alot of musicians dont comprehend this type of playing... my band for instances gets totally lost if i try and improvise some of this stuff....most musicians only understand 4/4.... this is why im getting my band into bands like meshuggah-planet x etc...

to be honest , before i discovered haake,weckl,virgil etc...i didnt know much past 4/4 myself...

[C.J.]

Question from the ingnorant:

I get the principal of linear and non-linear stuff, but I do not understand in what this could be a style of playing.

Could someone please explain ?

[dcdrmwthme]

Question from the ingnorant:

I get the principal of linear and non-linear stuff, but I do not understand in what this could be a style of playing.

Could someone please explain ?



You can apply linear playing to any style of music...I personally use it in my jazz playing, and it KILLS in a funk setting.

A drummer who uses linear phrases effectivly will make it part of his overall playing style, as opposed to "ok, im going to play linear now". Linear on its own gets tired real fast, but mixed in with compound time keeping, it works really well.

[vdreignsuponus1]

i love the way virgil uses it because it's just out of nowhere!

[grandpascorpion]

Hi dcdrmwthme, I dropped you a PM about Chaffee