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Kinetic drummer
06-04-2004, 06:04 PM
Hi guys....
iīve played fast enough to do the necessary chops in a gig. but then...i wanted totake my speed further.
in my practice routine i do paradiddle, singles and doubles for one hour. do you think this will give me speed and control?
a friend omine told my thatīs too much. i rather should practice rudiments in short periods of time.

now guys... how did you built up your speed. and the guys who are doing the same what methods are you taking.
i also practice the simon philipps exercise with the fingers. thats all... i cant play very fast.. play like around 140bpm playing 32nd notes.

dude
06-05-2004, 12:04 AM
umm 32nd notes at 140bpm is the same as 16th notes at 280bpm, and that is FLYING

timthedrummer
06-05-2004, 12:22 AM
yeh that would be breaking the world record i believe??
geez man why do u want to get faster? haha

timthedrummer
06-05-2004, 12:23 AM
oh and good to see your 1st post 'dude' (no pun intended)
welcome aboard

Kinetic drummer
06-05-2004, 01:19 AM
SORRY GUYS.....!!!! it was 120 with 32nd notes. i dont know why i wrote 240.... and i just can do that with singlesand doubles... paradiddles... naaaaa... thats why i ask....y practice and practice and my paradiddlesare the same..
any of you guys is in the MOELLER STROKE?

Matus
06-05-2004, 07:42 AM
It is too much :D For raw speed I'd go for Chaffee's endurance for singles method (which I think I explained a while ago). The Moeller technique is a whole different world, if you want to get into it there is a lot of great stuff on the net about it. Try to find Dom Famularo's book, It's Your Move. It explains it very accurately and if you add to that Jim Chapin's video for illustration then you've got a great method.

shaftninja
06-05-2004, 08:55 AM
There are so many different exercises, routines, workouts, you name it. Obtain a pair of marching sticks, and some of those Diggit stick weights, and blast out all the rudiments. I do that every other week.

unsonor
06-05-2004, 09:10 AM
is the ... practice a lot of 16 notes at 140 BMP playin in groups of four with each hand separatly ? LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR and so on .... at 140 ? :) Onother Xercise if any ? like a reprezentative one ? :) how does virgil say ?

Lad.
06-05-2004, 03:53 PM
I actually think that unsonor's post makes sense.
Fast single strokes are just two seperate hands doing single strokes put together.
I shall take this to note, indeed.

Shane G
06-11-2004, 09:12 AM
SORRY GUYS.....!!!! it was 120 with 32nd notes. i dont know why i wrote 240.... and i just can do that with singlesand doubles... paradiddles... naaaaa... thats why i ask....y practice and practice and my paradiddlesare the same..
any of you guys is in the MOELLER STROKE?
Yes...Im a "Moeller" disciple, if you will.

In regards to "speed"...Speed is time. And you cant gauge speed w/o a metronome. Use a journal, write down the exercises and the tempos, and make sure you practice EVERY DAY, and you will get faster. Its that simple. Just takes time, thats all.

In reference to Moeller...Moeller's thing was playing fluidly, w/o tension. It was also good for power. But it advocates turning the wrist, not bending it. That way, the larger muscles of the forearm are used, as opposed to the smaller ones that bend the wrist.

Hope any of this helps.

alencore
06-11-2004, 10:22 AM
play really fast single strokes on a floor tom tuned really low. it has far lesser rebound so you'll use more of the forearm wrist combination much much much more depending on tempo and dynamics of course.

peter
06-11-2004, 11:57 AM
OK. If you want to get hardcore, do Billy's exercise:

1. Take phone books and place them under each arm,
elbows pinching in.

2. On a bed or pillow, place a quarter and then try
and strike that quarter, with alternate strokes.

You will be using only your wrists and fingers.

From me to you, don't worry about speed so much.
It will come with time. Click that metronome up,
once every two days and that should be fine.

Shane G
06-11-2004, 12:22 PM
OK. If you want to get hardcore, do Billy's exercise:

1. Take phone books and place them under each arm,
elbows pinching in.

2. On a bed or pillow, place a quarter and then try
and strike that quarter, with alternate strokes.

You will be using only your wrists and fingers.

From me to you, don't worry about speed so much.
It will come with time. Click that metronome up,
once every two days and that should be fine.
With all due respect, peter, all this is gonna do is make you better at playing on quarters with phone books under your arms. And who plays on quarters at their gig? Not me.

Look...why is it that drummers have this "idea" that practicing on everything OTHER than drums (pillows, quarters, your knee, etc etc) will make you a better drummer?

Practice on drums...or at least a practice pad. WITH a metronome. Jeez, fellas...phone books? Cmon, man.

Josh_SDD
06-11-2004, 12:37 PM
Both Buddy Rich and Dennis Chambers suggest playing on a phonebook. A Moongel pad or a phone book/pillow build your chops much faster than a snare drum. It's the use or lose process. If you dont work the muscles that help speed your singles, you will never move forward.

Shane G
06-11-2004, 01:20 PM
Both Buddy Rich and Dennis Chambers suggest playing on a phonebook. A Moongel pad or a phone book/pillow build your chops much faster than a snare drum. It's the use or lose process. If you dont work the muscles that help speed your singles, you will never move forward.
I disagree. With both you, Buddy & Dennis. I saw Dennis in clinic once where he said the exact same thing. I disagreed with him then, and I disagree still.

All practicing on a pillow is gonna do is make you better at playing on a pillow. In addition, since you dont get any sort of rebound from a pillow (or Moogel, phone book etc) your doing TWO motions for one stroke. When you play a drum, the stick has rebound. It has to...thats physics. When you play on a snare drum, you should only be doing one motion...down. the stick will come back on its own. Drummers call this "rebound." So if you dont use that to your advantage, you doing twice as much work for the same result.

And this statement "A Moongel pad or a phone book/pillow build your chops much faster than a snare drum." is just plain false. I dont know how simplier I can make this....stop practicing on pillows and phone books. Use them for their purpose...for sleeping on and getting phone numbers out of.

Good grief fellas.

Kinetic drummer
06-11-2004, 01:35 PM
Once i practiced on a rubber pad, and the bounce was too much. i couldnt handle it. in pillows we take the riskto have lesions or injuries. whats better i think is a tom. im practicing now double strokes in a floor tom.

Shane G
06-11-2004, 01:46 PM
Once i practiced on a rubber pad, and the bounce was too much. i couldnt handle it. in pillows we take the riskto have lesions or injuries. whats better i think is a tom. im practicing now double strokes in a floor tom.
the bounce was too much No it wasnt. You just havent learned how to follow it. You have to relax your hand enough so that you can follow the rebound, but not choke it.

im practicing now double strokes in a floor tom Ok...but...unless you play floor tom primarily in your kit instead of SD, your still at a disadvantage. Your floor tom isnt going to be at the same tension your snare is. And correct me if Im wrong, but you play snare more than floor tom on gigs, right?

Again...practice on actual drums, or rubber practice pads. Practicing on anything else wont make you any "better" at drums.

Lad.
06-11-2004, 02:19 PM
I almost agree with Shane. It does make sense. I have noticed that doing single strokes on a pillow only makes it harder to keep steady strokes on a real drum. It's like the bounce is so much more, so my chops are over done.

I'm not saying that all the rest of you are wrong, but he does have a point.

peter
06-11-2004, 02:42 PM
Lol!

Oh, you guys!

Listen, let's remember what he said. He wanted
to build up his speed, not play the drums.

There's a difference.

If you're offended by the reference to the bed
or the pillow, then do it on a snare drum, aim-
ing for the center of the head.

We don't have to be so literal as to shut our
minds to other points of view.

You may not agree with these drummers. That's
OK. They can't know everything. Lol!

jsuplicki
06-11-2004, 05:22 PM
I can definatly agree with Shane G on many of the views with this topic. Racecar drivers don't practice racing with tractor trailers, they practice using a race car or something very close to it. I always believed to practice getting better at the drums, play drums or something close to them...practice pads.

Like anything, practicing anything correctly, and most importantly, with control, at a slow tempo to then faster will give you the results you want...all within time. Many excercises are more difficult at slower tempo's rather than fast...due to the need for control. CONTROL IS KEY!

To many people want the quick fix on getting speed and there isn't one, sorry. :(

I've been playing for over 20 years now and what I still do today is on a dry erase board next to my kit/practice pads I put down what I'm practicing on at the time and the tempo/bpm. Even a notebook will help for this example. If your using a book enter this with pencil. Every other day or so just raise the tempo 1-2 bpm and as the days go by, you will see progress. Believe me some weeks are better than others but you can always see where you were when you thought "I'm never going to get to 200bpm", and you started at 80bpm and with just over a month you've gained 10bpm to reach your goal. Only raise the bar if you have control of the excercise and are comfortable with it, don't lie to yourself either. Record youself practicing and listen back to it, believe me you'll know if your ready to raise the bpm or not! It all takes time!!! I can't stress this enough. Believe me you will get frustrated and say "Am I really going to use this technique?" and want to move on to something else, I think we all have one time or another, I have. When I was starting out waaaay back in the day I said that about rudiments...boy did I hate them! :rolleyes: But, if you stick with it, you will get want you want. Knowing your using this messageboard as a catalyst for your drumming, I know you wont quit!

The more you practice the better you become, that is the proven fact...ask anyone playing any instrument. If you want it bad, you have to work at it, if you want it really bad, you really have to work at it and even make sacrifices in your schedule to find that extra time.

Virgil was not made in a day... :D

Lad.
06-11-2004, 06:10 PM
Much like, "The ark was not built in a day". Good words.

and I like your avatar. It's funny, because I remember when that picture was taken. I was like, right there in front of the guy with the camera, haha. That was the North Canton clinic.

jsuplicki
06-11-2004, 06:41 PM
Lad...I believe you might have been sitting right next to me at the clinic on my left, your right...in the front row just to the left of Virg. I was with my wife taking all the pics which are on the site. That clinic was amazing.

Lad.
06-11-2004, 06:48 PM
Nah, that wasn't me.
I was standing in the very back. I came in somewhere around half an hour after the show started, so I walked in during his solo.
I had a green masterworks shirt and a leather jacket.
You wouldn't remember that though.

GustavoFerreira
06-12-2004, 09:11 AM
The secret is to always use your fingers, and almost none of your hand!
Try practicing on high speeds using only you baby finger to make the stick movement, then go to the ring, etc.

jagdkommando
06-12-2004, 11:24 AM
In my opinion you have to practice on pillows etc. AND drums. I practiced a lot on
pillows etc. but then had the problem that I was very fast on pillows but couldn't
play very fast on drums. Especially one snare an 10" tom I had big problems playing
fast.

What I like very much is the excercise virg explained for singles and doubles (see premium member section).

Kinetic drummer
06-12-2004, 03:12 PM
well... thank for all your answers.
the reason of my question was because..i have speed. but with doubles and singles.
but what i noticed is that Thomas lang is right, sometimes we give a lot of accent to the first note in double rolls. then he explained his way. and its great.. so.. im practicing now.
i play with my fingers. and since i heard about manginiīs record im trying to practice with wrists too. and accents with the forearms, which is pretty hard on the left side. it resembles like moeller "look" just look , cuz i have no idea about the moeller stroke.
im having a hard time with paradiddles.
then... my hand starts to ache. the bones of my hands.. at high speeds get hard. and that hurts. but.. im still have control, cuz my fingers are loose and they give the movement to the stick.
anyway... i practice every day now.. i wanna have results in 6months.
thank for all of you.

groovemachine
06-24-2005, 02:57 PM
umm 32nd notes at 140bpm is the same as 16th notes at 280bpm, and that is FLYING
Is that possible dude

groovemachine
06-24-2005, 03:36 PM
With all due respect, peter, all this is gonna do is make you better at playing on quarters with phone books under your arms. And who plays on quarters at their gig? Not me.

Look...why is it that drummers have this "idea" that practicing on everything OTHER than drums (pillows, quarters, your knee, etc etc) will make you a better drummer?

Practice on drums...or at least a practice pad. WITH a metronome. Jeez, fellas...phone books? Cmon, man.

Hey Shane G I'm inclining to agree. Why is it that there's all this theories going round. Smacks of golf. Just play da drums da drums you play everyday and use da damn metro- make sure that ya keep the tension away whatever it takes to do dat. Ive been doing it to work my left hand and have increased my sixteenth notes by 15 bpm in two weeks doing it everyday for 1 hour. I can now play them at 165 bpm with ease. Use it dont use it

Leave all these theories for the golf wannabees

IronCobraMan
06-24-2005, 05:36 PM
drum daily to Hate Eternal's , king of all kings album ,all of it.... if ur speed and endurance dont go up by then , u got problems :D ... its the best all around drum work out u can get , for hands , feet and moving around ur kit .... long live DM drumming

Markdude465
06-26-2005, 01:36 PM
All practicing on a pillow is gonna do is make you better at playing on a pillow. In addition, since you dont get any sort of rebound from a pillow (or Moogel, phone book etc) your doing TWO motions for one stroke. When you play a drum, the stick has rebound. It has to...thats physics. When you play on a snare drum, you should only be doing one motion...down. the stick will come back on its own. Drummers call this "rebound." So if you dont use that to your advantage, you doing twice as much work for the same result.

I'll agree that rebound control is key, but the simple fact is that different drums produce different levels of rebound. You're going to be doing at least a little work to pull the drumstick back to you on lower tuned components. If you play on a surface that has virtually no rebound, you are strengthening the muscles that bring the drumstick back to you much more than you would be practicing on a drum. This means that the little bit of effort that you have to put into bringing the drumstick back when playing on a surface with more rebound seems even less.

It makes sense, doesn't it, that if bench pressing 400 pounds makes it easier to bench 50 quicker and for longer peroids of time, the same would go for increasing the effort one must put into drumming?

I'll agree that practicing on a pillow too much can reduce one's familiarity with the mechanics of rebound. I believe that it's about balance (just as everything in life is... very paridoxical).

And here's an excercise that really, really, really, really helped my singles, especially "weak-hand" lead:

R R R R LRLRLRLRL L L L RLRLRLRL (repeat many, many times, at various tempos)

And of course, play around with the number of strokes. Progressively add more and more:

R LRL RLR LRL RL...
R R LRLRL L RLRLR R LRLRL L RLRL...
R R R LRLRLRL L L RLRLRLR R R LRLRLRL L L RLRLRL...
R R R R LRLRLRLRL L L L RLRLRLRLR R R R R LRLRLRLR....

etc, etc, etc.

Good luck, and stick with it. ;)

PercDudeJR
06-26-2005, 09:28 PM
I disagree. With both you, Buddy & Dennis. I saw Dennis in clinic once where he said the exact same thing. I disagreed with him then, and I disagree still.

All practicing on a pillow is gonna do is make you better at playing on a pillow. In addition, since you dont get any sort of rebound from a pillow (or Moogel, phone book etc) your doing TWO motions for one stroke. When you play a drum, the stick has rebound. It has to...thats physics. When you play on a snare drum, you should only be doing one motion...down. the stick will come back on its own. Drummers call this "rebound." So if you dont use that to your advantage, you doing twice as much work for the same result.

And this statement "A Moongel pad or a phone book/pillow build your chops much faster than a snare drum." is just plain false. I dont know how simplier I can make this....stop practicing on pillows and phone books. Use them for their purpose...for sleeping on and getting phone numbers out of.

Good grief fellas.
This exercise is to develop muscles... and when you practice with two motions, it's then much easier to play WITH the rebound...

Wankmaster Joe
06-26-2005, 09:51 PM
I disagree. With both you, Buddy & Dennis. I saw Dennis in clinic once where he said the exact same thing. I disagreed with him then, and I disagree still.

All practicing on a pillow is gonna do is make you better at playing on a pillow. In addition, since you dont get any sort of rebound from a pillow (or Moogel, phone book etc) your doing TWO motions for one stroke. When you play a drum, the stick has rebound. It has to...thats physics. When you play on a snare drum, you should only be doing one motion...down. the stick will come back on its own. Drummers call this "rebound." So if you dont use that to your advantage, you doing twice as much work for the same result.

And this statement "A Moongel pad or a phone book/pillow build your chops much faster than a snare drum." is just plain false. I dont know how simplier I can make this....stop practicing on pillows and phone books. Use them for their purpose...for sleeping on and getting phone numbers out of.

Good grief fellas.

Dude think about it, pillows have no rebound so your excersising and buildint those muscles you need so that when you do play on a drums it's way easier because there is rebound.

Jameson
07-03-2005, 11:42 PM
I'm pretty sure you don't need the muscles that bring the stick up as much as the ones that thrust the stick down. The rebound of the drum brings the stick up for you.

Markdude465
07-04-2005, 12:01 PM
I'm pretty sure you don't need the muscles that bring the stick up as much as the ones that thrust the stick down. The rebound of the drum brings the stick up for you.

(When you work on muscles that you barely need, the effort you put into using them will seem even less. ;) )

Hey, what about dynamic changes? Say, playing a sixteenth ghost note followed by a heavy accent? The ghost note isn't going to provide nearly enough rebound to get the stick up to where you'll need it at the starting point of an accented hit. You'll be doing work to bring it back up. This is where you need those muscles that would be worked out when playing on a pillow.

Oh, and it seems that reasonably low-rebound surfaces, as opposed to practicing on practically no-rebound surfaces, will bring the stick back to you, but not unless you put more work into the downward motion. This means you're working the downward-pushing muscles more than on a surface with all kinds of rebound.

cjcdrums
07-04-2005, 02:56 PM
(When you work on muscles that you barely need, the effort you put into using them will seem even less. ;) )

Hey, what about dynamic changes? Say, playing a sixteenth ghost note followed by a heavy accent? The ghost note isn't going to provide nearly enough rebound to get the stick up to where you'll need it at the starting point of an accented hit. You'll be doing work to bring it back up. This is where you need those muscles that would be worked out when playing on a pillow.

Oh, and it seems that reasonably low-rebound surfaces, as opposed to practicing on practically no-rebound surfaces, will bring the stick back to you, but not unless you put more work into the downward motion. This means you're working the downward-pushing muscles more than on a surface with all kinds of rebound.
GREAT post! You just made me realize something I need to work on.

Jameson
07-04-2005, 03:07 PM
I never thought about it that way...

Markdude465
07-04-2005, 03:38 PM
I remember in the early days (although, in a few years, I'll consider thesethe early days), I remember watching Jeff Porcaro's video, with the Rosana beat, playing all these mysterious "ghost note" things that made it sound 'reel gud...' and trying to figure out how he managed to play that accent so loud, and the ghost note following it so quiet. I'd do it and it would sound like an even double, untill I realized...

You have to muscle it out! It takes strength to stop the stick right by the drum head, and it takes strength to snap it back up. Playing on a pillow helped me tremendously in that area, and before I knew it (in retrospect), I was grooovin'.

To clarify, I am not advocating super-tight playing in any way, shape, or form. Be loose, but not too loose. Don't let it get away from you. Like everything in life, it's about balance. Not to much this or that, but just ride the edge of the coin, so to speak.

DavidPartay
07-04-2005, 08:10 PM
Something I recently discovered is that the sticks you use may be preventing you from developing control and speed.

I recently switched from Promark 5B sticks to Promark 747 Rock sticks and I have noticed a MASSIVE difference - I've wasted the last 5 years trying to build speed with the 5Bs and pretty much gotten nowhere. Within weeks of starting to use the 747s which are slightly longer and as thick as the Promark 5As, my double strokes are comfortable at 220 for any period of time and my singles are charging towards 200 - this is after being stuck at less than 170 with my left hand for a looooong time and my right hand degrading from being comfortable at 220 to about 200.

I never realised it was the sticks holding me back.

The best way to work out what muscles need development is to work out which ones seem the weakest when you're playing. If you find it difficult to fight the rebound to play single strokes, then work on playing the singles as quietly as you can, as fast as you can while retaining control. It's harder to play faster quietly on tightly tuned drums (ie. snaredrums) and you build the muscles to fight the rebound more when you practise them more quietly.

Of course, you need to build ALL aspects of fighting and supporting the rebound to have the most healthy and well-rounded approach to playing both your singles and doubles. Don't neglect practising singles and doubles on your toms because if you can't support the rebound as well as fight it then you're stuffed for playing fast on your floor toms ;).

IronCobraMan
07-04-2005, 11:29 PM
play along to death metal CDs....thats it....get the adrenaline going and use it to blast ur way thru those barriers..... ive been playing along to king of all kings on a daily basis now.... my regular blasts can now reach 270...and my hyperblasts can go past 300!!! so far ive peaked at 320 bpm hyperblasting....i believe i held it for a good 5 seconds ....so use music to help u get faster , it works!

Markdude465
07-05-2005, 12:46 AM
Hyperblasting, would that be using both feet for eighth notes? Or "cheating-blasts?"

IronCobraMan
07-05-2005, 11:33 AM
no hyper blasting is when u use ur fingers to play and ur movements are very small with not alot of volume..... like flo mounier from cryptopsy....except his hyperblasting is the worst ive ever heard....totally not consistant...idealy when u hyper blast ur using both feet.... once i pass the 270bpm mark im using both feet...anything under that i ALWAYS play one footed....it sounds alot cleaner that way

the only way im using 2 feet in blasting under 270 is if im doing cannible blasts (16th notes with feet)....jus listen to anything recorded by derek roddy , he also only uses one footed blasts ...and thats why they sound so clean and have that (right - left) feel to them


download hate eternal's - Two Demons ...derek switches between cannible blasts and one footer....u can clearly hear the right-left feeling

alencore
07-05-2005, 12:16 PM
LOL!

it keeps gettting crazier, with this, hehe...

regular blasts
hyperblasts
cheating-blasts
cannible blasts

can i add demon-blasts, portnoy-blasts, bazooka-blasts and finally the ever so undiniably unreachable V-blasts?...!

Didi
07-06-2005, 02:32 AM
Hi guys....
iīve played fast enough to do the necessary chops in a gig. but then...i wanted totake my speed further.
in my practice routine i do paradiddle, singles and doubles for one hour. do you think this will give me speed and control?
a friend omine told my thatīs too much. i rather should practice rudiments in short periods of time.

now guys... how did you built up your speed. and the guys who are doing the same what methods are you taking.
i also practice the simon philipps exercise with the fingers. thats all... i cant play very fast.. play like around 140bpm playing 32nd notes.\

I think u should try the dennis chambers way of playing fast..
wrap some weights around ur forearms and practice ur rudiments for 5 mins

Didi
07-06-2005, 02:34 AM
i think we drummers should be patient and just practice on rudiments first

Didi
07-06-2005, 02:35 AM
hey , anyone knows how to practice shuffles? any tips?

IronCobraMan
07-06-2005, 02:49 AM
a good way is to layer doubles...kind of like doing swiss triplets....thats how i got the rosanna groove down.....like this

R
RL
L
R
RL
L


and just repeat that....

alencore
07-06-2005, 02:00 PM
although i might advise not to do swiss triplets all over the place on the almight rosanna beat. its enough played on the backbeats epecially if the second note is really soft.

a song with a 120-140 bpm and apply a 1 bar fill using 16note triplets will sound so darn cool to non-band-drummer audience imho.

johnz
07-10-2005, 08:52 AM
I disagree. With both you, Buddy & Dennis. I saw Dennis in clinic once where he said the exact same thing. I disagreed with him then, and I disagree still.

All practicing on a pillow is gonna do is make you better at playing on a pillow. In addition, since you dont get any sort of rebound from a pillow (or Moogel, phone book etc) your doing TWO motions for one stroke. When you play a drum, the stick has rebound. It has to...thats physics. When you play on a snare drum, you should only be doing one motion...down. the stick will come back on its own. Drummers call this "rebound." So if you dont use that to your advantage, you doing twice as much work for the same result.

And this statement "A Moongel pad or a phone book/pillow build your chops much faster than a snare drum." is just plain false. I dont know how simplier I can make this....stop practicing on pillows and phone books. Use them for their purpose...for sleeping on and getting phone numbers out of.

Good grief fellas.

I agree with you Shane.

I prefer using the natural rebound of the stick off of the drum. It is quite challenging to learn though, especially if your use to playing in to the drum.

Dave Weckl has helped me with learning this method and I have noticed a big difference in my sound and playing speed.

The other methds of obtaining speed suggested by Billy, Buddy, Dennis aren't wrong. They work to. It is all a matter of preference.

I prefer the rebound method because to me it is less work, and you get a bigger, less choked drum sound.

JohnZ

sandstrom
07-10-2005, 07:02 PM
Ok, I'm gonna piss people off but this is my oppinion:

like everybody here knows: on a drumkit there are different surfaces. some with more rebound than others. that's why I believe you have to know how to use the rebound AND have the ability to pick the stick up yourself. Good luck with rebound on a really low tom or a china. don't get me wrong, I like playing with a rebound.

I love weckl, but also dennis. I think it is good to have an open mind. And in some music styles the artist want you to play more into the drum than others. I don't understand how someone can go out and say without a doubt that many of the worlds greatest drummers are wrong. But that don't mean that their ways are good for all of us.

Thanks for me

DavidPartay
07-10-2005, 07:31 PM
Sandstrom - you're not the first to explain that!! I also described in one of my previous posts that it is important to work on BOTH aspects of striking a surface because your technique DEPENDS on your ability to fight as well as assist the rebound. No point being great at creating rebound on a floor tom when you can only play half as fast on the snaredrum because you can't fight the rebound you're so good at creating.

I think it's vastly important to practise dynamically on ALL surfaces on your drumkit - just as Virgil demonstrates on Power Drumming with moving around the kit and hitting each drum/cymbal 4 times, then 2, then 1, and again with both hands 4 hits - then 2.

Basically with drumming, if there's something you can't do technique-wise then it's something you need to work on. If you can't play quickly because you can't fight or assist rebound, then you need to work on it and build the appropriate muscles.

IronCobraMan
07-10-2005, 08:34 PM
blast beats.......blast beats.....and more blast beats.....

DavidPartay
07-10-2005, 08:43 PM
Ok, now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a blast beat in it's most simple form a SINGLE STROKE ROLL played between a cymbal and a snaredrum?

You could at least TRY to contribute...

IronCobraMan
07-10-2005, 08:46 PM
correctomondo....u wanna build speed...play blast beats.....some leading with right hand on ride...and some leading with left hand on hi hat...... to get a feel for different rebounds and also to improve ur weak side

DavidPartay
07-10-2005, 08:52 PM
So basically what you're saying is, play a single stroke roll using both hands but on separate surfaces? With the bassdrum following one of the hands of course.

I thought so ;).

Zillow
08-30-2006, 06:18 AM
Im surprised no one has put a tag on upstrokes, downstrokes, and natural (or the ever argued rebound) strokes yet. And we have some how completly ruled out Marching snare, which is were i got the whole pillow thing from. That is why i cant forsake it because those guys can kick a lot of ass, which was the goal at the beginning of this post......kickin ass...

Footsoldier88
08-30-2006, 08:17 AM
Wow...this thread has gotten out of control! Race cars, pillows, blastbeats, an ark, oh my.

alencore
08-30-2006, 10:02 AM
well my left hand is doing great. it's almost as fast as my right so...

creepingsandman
09-03-2006, 06:56 AM
try this work out
rrrr llll rrrr llll rrll rrll rrll rrll rlrl rlrl rlrl rlrl

creepingsandman
09-03-2006, 06:58 AM
try this work out
RRRR LLLL RRRR LLLL RRLL RRLL RRLL RRLL RLRL RLRL RLRL RLRL :)

Askins
09-04-2006, 08:54 AM
I think the help that playing on a pillow offers is that you build up clean strokes. As the pillow offers no rebound you're working the muscles that would help you control the rebound that the snare drum gives. So it's like working on a harder thing to then take advantage of the help the head of the drum is giving you.

As far as a good excersise I practice is just play any rudiment like for example doubles at a starting tempo lets say 100 bpm (16 th's) and play doubles going up in speed like every 4 or 8 repetitions till you reach that speed when you loose the control, at that point start lowering speed till you get reeally slow and then repeat all the process again. It really helped me when I first got into doubles and I guess it helps at any point of learning. Hope you like it!

leugim_0000
09-04-2006, 09:29 AM
Speaking form the drumcorps perspective i suggest you hit the pads. You muscles need to become familiar with rebound. Have you played a marching snare? Their extremely tight. The best course of action is to play swiss triplets (rrl,llr), and flammed swiss army triplets (flam lr). You can flam either side, and/or play it the other way. This pattern works out the left hand. Accenting patterns help a great deal. Make sure you work on symmetrical patterns, such as thomas lang's hand warm-up. It may seem hard a first but you'll het used to the pads. I find it harder to play on pads than pillows. Pads fight back, pillows don't. Good luck!

Zillow
09-06-2006, 06:21 AM
I think Another thing people failed to mention was that one can get a twice as good a chop on the pad than the pillow, muscle wise, by controling the rebound. And if anyone doesn't know what i mean by that, ill give a good excersize that will kick ones butt. Do whatever singles excersizelike singles endurance, but every time one strikes the head, he/she should not let the stick come backmore than a couple inches of the head. This down stroke practice helps a number of things, and realates maybe more so to drumcorps, but drumcorps has chops and that is what is being talked about in here. One could also do the same downstroke exersizes with upstokes, staring from an inch or two from the head, Letting The STICK FALL into the head, and quickly bringing the stick up to 90 degrees. Why is this better than the pillow? because when you throw the stick into the pillow, it gives completly, and the action of stopping the stick from rebounding of the pad is not only techniqually and phisically more difficult, just try it. Also completing this action arms the drummer with a practical ability. one uses this stroke in accent taps/mixed accents, tap rolls, FLAMS, dynamic control, and im sure there are many others. so to all of you with the pillow, dont lay it to rest, this is merely an alternative. If it wasn't for the pillow, phonebook, housecat, what have you, there are some techniqual things i never would have accomplished. It helped me with creating streight stick paths and uh...some other stuff but everyone's different. Im sure virgil had some practice ediquette when he was 18 that if he recited in this message board, a lot of us would freak.

www.myspace.com/zillow (http://www.myspace.com/zillow)