The Axis-A Longboard Pedal

[peter]

Guys,

I have bought myself an Axis-A Longboard pedal. It is really something. I have let my other buddies at Billy's know about it. I'm going to copy some of it here for you so you can get an idea about this pedal:

One Thread:

My wife and boy are up north for the week
and I am left here to slave. So, I best
start slaving at what I like best.
Here's another few photos of the Axis A-
Longboard and what I'm now doing to it.

After being reminded by Racman, I decided to
duplicate what Vuk was doing in the afore-
mentioned videos:

http://www.thediametrixletter.com/1.mov
http://www.thediametrixletter.com/2.mov
http://www.thediametrixletter.com/3.mov

1. In the first picture, I show the pedal, with
my replacement spring and VRUK attachment. The
VRUK just sits on the lower part of your foot-
board, as you can see.

http://www.thediametrixletter.com/axis6.jpg

2. In the next picture, I insert the Allen wrench
into the special screw holding the spring, about
to remove it - wanting to replace again, the
original spring.

http://www.thediametrixletter.com/axis7.jpg

3. In the next picture, you can see that I have
replaced the original spring and now have my
hand on the Sonic Hammer beater, which I am about
to replace with a regular beater. You also see
that I have a little help from my friend, Margarita.

http://www.thediametrixletter.com/axis8.jpg

4. In the last picture, you can see the older beater
in the place of the Sonic Hammers.

You may ask why the change. Again, I want to
duplicate what Vuk did in his video. The older
beater sits way back and so I need that original
spring, which hase more slack, in order to allow
it to strike the head, without excess effort.

As you can see, I'm sipping that glass very slowly.

Now, after playing "Stratus" a couple of times,
with the Axis A, with the original spring and the
conventional beater, I'm finding it a hard choice,
deciding which is actually better.

I was just playing barefoot and let me tell you,
that is heaven on earth. I can't decide. I'm to
try a few more things.

This VDL is really a neat feature on this pedal.
You can fine-tune the rebound you want from the
head. It's REALLY something! You can get this
thing just right. That's why people buy this, I
think. Otherwise, you have to find EXACTLY the
right spring for you, though that is not im-
possible. I have been working on some bop, which
requires real control down there and the adjust-
ment really came in handy.

Another Thread:

The VDL (Variable Drive Lever) on the Axis-A pedal has turned out to be the most significant development by Axis, I believe. Try and picture this in your mind. The lever that pulls down on the beater has long been in the same position on the various pedals that we have used. With this innovation, you are now able to move that towards the kick or away from it. It seems like nothing but I'm telling you, it's everything. I'm so glad Vuk talked me into getting this particular pedal because the old ones did not have it and it makes the total difference for me. Towards the kick drum, it's maximum leverage and power, WITHOUT rebound. Away from the kick and towards the pedal is maximum rebound and control, with a loss of power. Look at the pictures and see if they help you understand this idea. If not, I'll take more of them but it's the crux of the new Axis.

[Adam]

Hey it's Pete. I remember you from Billy Cobham's web page. I still visit frequently but I haven't posted in a while. How's it going? I think I'm Addam there or die_lezte_something...hehe

[peter]

Hey, Adam!

I'm fine, thanks. Work is busy but that will never change. As long as there is a world, there will be markets.

Glad you contribute to Virgil - one of the greatest drummers of all time. While there aren't many players herer into Jazz, that doesn't mean I can't listen to Virgil's music and jazz at the same time!

You're always welcome... here or at Billy's. By the way, he's doing well too.

[jimi]

Man you know a good bit about pedal mechanics, that's really handy info to know. Still haven't gotten that damn spring!!
Btw how much did you pay for the pedal, i only got an iron cobra a couple of months back so i couldn't fork out another €500 for another double pedal, esp. ordered in from America:(
I like the Vruk but i want to get good using the normal heel-up technique way first.

[peter]

Jimi,

Hi. I encourage everyone to get to know their pedals. It's some of the most important equipment that we have. For me, nothing is right if my kick isn't right.

The Axis-A cost around $190 for the single-pedal. It's a superior pedal, I believe.

I play the Iron Cobra too and that's a fine pedal, as well but it's not like the Asix-A at all.

I would experiment with the beater distance from the head. The closer the beater to the head, the more control you'll have. If you want to try a heavier gauge spring on it, they're available at your neighborhood hardware store. I'd also change the beater, trying a conventional one, just to see. Remember that the more tension you have, the closer the beater needs to be to the head.

The VRUK is cool but I have not really enjoyed using it with the Axis-A, though I will keep trying. The longboard almost does what the VRUK does to a pedal.

The VDL (Variable Drive Lever) is a fantastic feature.

These pedals aren't cheap but I'm hooked.

By the way, there is a sweet spot on this pedal, low in the longboard. It's so smooth and quiet. What a joy it is.

[Christopher]

Very cool post Peter, thanks!

[jimi]

As always peter thanks for the advice:) You definitely sound like you're having lots of fun!

[peter]

I am just trying to help out. I'm on the
same journey with you guys. I know you'd
do the same for me. These pedals are very
expensive and you could use a little info on
them, I'm sure, especially if you're thinking
of buying one or a pair.

Here's another note from Billy's:

Another note on the Sonic Hammers (SH)
from me and this is very important:

They are HEAVIER than conventional beaters
and this makes a big difference in response.
Be ready for that if you go for them. They're
just TOO heavy for me. I much prefer my
conventional beater on the Axis.

With the VDL, you don't need the SH.

Play on, guys! :cool:

[jimi]

I like the weight, i don't like a pedal to feel too light. I found that i did have to up the tension on the springs when i moved the beater closer to the BD skin. I actually have the spring tension all the way up with those little weights you get on the cobras right up on the top. So i really really do have to try and get a new higher gauge spring like you suggested peter.
This is all speaking in terms of playing heel-up of course. i find my calfs aren't 90 degrees vertical to the floor at all but slightly back, there's more weight under the knee for me and my ankles are more responsive because i moved from heel down technique and that was the angle they were at when my heel was on the floor.
off the point a bit but i've just noticed the balance for double-bass heel-up is aided by more strength in my stomach. i'm able to keep my legs up easier, so i'm doing sit-ups now (bruce lee style left elbow to right knee and vice versa).

[peter]

Let me know how it goes with
the new spring.

As for the sit-ups:

Ah so! :D

[peter]

Here's another post frm Billy's on the
Axis-A in comparison, talking about
the angle the lever, chain or strap is
at, while resting and then depressed:

I also use the Iron Cobra. It's true
that it is square, coming down but the
typical 90d plus, angle is still there.
Don't get me wrong. This is one of the
best conventional pedals out there but
pardon the pun, Axis is coming at it
from another angle.

Check out this photo* of the Axis-A, next
to a conventional (in this case, an old,
Tama, belt drive unit):

www.thediametrixletter.com/axisversus.jpg

*I put cardboard behind it because I needed
some contrast, with the computer screens

It's not a perfectly square picture but you
will see the essentials.

Look at the lever and belt, which are
pulling down these beaters. While resting,
the angles differ markedly. If fully depressed,
the Axis-A would still be at an angle less
than 90d. The belt-driven pedal will max at
90d. This is the big difference.

Herein is the feature that gives a "natural
bounce" to the Axis-A. This is besides the
spring/bounce that is, of course, associated
with the spring itself.

[peter]

Virgil,

If you get a chance to read this, next
time you're at the show, have Axis let
you try these somewhere. Make sure
it's the one with the VDL (Variable
Drive Lever). The adjustments that
you can make with this mechanism
are crucial, I think.

http://ar.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/bc/billycobhamfriends/vwp?.dir=/&.src=ph&.dnm=petevirgil.gif&.view=t&.done=http%3a//ar.f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/bc/billycobhamfriends/lst%3f%26.dir=/%26.src=ph%26.view=t

It was great seeing on that bitter cold
night, north of Chicago. I'm sure I'll see
you again and my best wishes to the
finest drummer I have ever seen.

[peter]

Here's the drawing, showing the area, where
the difference between the Axis VDL and the
conventional lie:

www.thediametrixletter.com/axisdrawing.gif

[peter]

Hey guys,

I have been doing more work on other
pedals and I just wanted to let you know
that I got back a DW5000 that I had loaned
out to a great female percussionist, while
I was working on her (down guys!) pedal
and I remembered how good the action
was on it.

With that in mind, I took a close look at the
mechanism, pressing down the footboard,
drawing the beater and I found that the
angle produced approximated that of the
Axis-A, with the VDL I talked about.

Remember that the VDL (Variable Drive Lever)
is what I believe the crucial element on the
Axis pedal, which changes the angle of the
lever to the beater in depression.

I believe this is why the DW5000 has such
good action, though the Axis-A is smoother.

I am purchasing another Axis-A and going
to double-kick, after almost 30 years.

I just wanted to encourage those thinking
of saving some money, with some used DW
equipment. There's a lot of value there.

One more thing, the DW9000 is out and
while it looks nice, it's actually even more
expensive than the Axis! Boy! That thing
BETTER BE smooth or people are going to
get angry!

[Tommy G.]

Hi Everyone!
I'm new to this message board via a referral from the tigerbill.com website - check it out. I'm glad someone is trying the Axis Longboards. In my situation I play on a Drumframe and I thought I would share a few of my discoveries in my "lab" on doubles. My pedals are Pearl Eliminator using the blue cam and belt drive. I play 2 bass drums - a definite plus over the double pedal which I used to play modified with the Axis drive shaft. My top speed is 16ths at 220 bpm with this setup. I believe the reclined angles of the drumframe help a lot with the action because the angle of the footboard is much steeper without actually moving the beater back any further. I learned my doubles technique from the "ballistic" video. I've heard speeds of 270 are possible but I am wondering how? I tried the Axis X pedals and didn't like them - the footboard is too short. I am a size 9 and wear watersocks while playing. My foot fits the Pearl pedalboard exactly. That VRUK atachment looks interesting (what does it stand for?) but with the drumframe the wings are not long enough to add an attachment like that. My pedals are about an inch and a half away from the edge already. The A longboards would probably just make it by themselves. I am definitely going to try them out. I have also tried these beaters - sonic hammers (too heavy), dw, Tama wood, and Slug but I always come back to the Pearls with the hard surface - not felt. I also angle my bass drums up a little more than the 90 degree position. Ideally I would think that the closer the head is to the beater so that the beater hits at exactly the top of it's stroke - not beyond it- would be optimal. What do you guys think?
Thanks.

Tommy G.

[peter]

270? Hmm...

As for the Axis-A's, they really are something and
very different from the X's, in that they have the
VDL (Variable Drive Lever). The longboard itself is
wonderful, allowing much more board to the foot,
especially on the lower portion.

I am very new to double-kicking and have been
experimenting a great deal, as you can see in the
other threads.

Make sure to check the VRUK videos I linked you
to. They are very interesting.

VRUK is just what people started calling Vuk (his
actual name) after a while. It just kind of happened.

[Tommy G.]

Peter,
I was curious about 2 things:
1. what is the length of the footplate of the axis longboard pedal. measure it from the edge of your bass drum hoop to the end of the plate.
2. what is the distance of your beater from the drumhead? measure from the drumhead to the top and front of your beater head. My beaters are in the 5 to 6 inch range. Any less and I lose power and volume - any more and I will lose a lot of speed.

Also - do those pedal attachments for the heel come as an accessory with the longboards?

Thanks.

Tommy G.

[peter]

Tommy,

1. 13-14 inches from hoop. It's a 14-inch plate.

2. You can change this, with either the Sonic
Hammer OR with your Allen wrench OR you can
use a more conventional Pearl beater (Quad)
like I do and at the original Allen setting, it's 5.5
inches away from the surface of the head.

3. If I understand you correctly, the Longboards
come as they are, all assembled, with only the
"Sonic Hammer" needing to be placed and this
you can supplant, as I have, with my beaters.

If you have an older model Axis X pedal, which
is not a Longboard, you can get a conversion kit.

I hope that this answers your questions. Let me
know if it doesn't.

[Tommy G.]

Peter,
Thanks for the info. Looks like I'll be able to use them on my Drumframe. The Pearls are 13 inches fyi. What were those attachments you had on the more conventional pedals in your movie files? Also - does the Axis package come with those nylon spacers etc. or a "kit" where one can adjust the footboard angle?

Thanks again.

Tommy G.

[peter]

Oh, you meant the VRUK attachments!

No, Tommy. Those are separate attachments
altogether. That was not me in the movie files.
That was Vuk himself, demonstrating them.

I don't have those nylon spacers you mentioned,
with my pedal.

[Tommy G.]

Peter,
Very interesting. Does Axis make those VRUK's? I was on the phone a couple of months ago with the big cheese over at Axis (I forgot his name) and he told me about a little kit they have to make even finer adjustments like I mentioned. I was specifically talking to him about the X-pedals that I didn't care for but I'll bet you it is available for the longboards as well.

Thanks.

Tommy G. (also a big Marco Minnemann fan!)

[peter]

Axis does not make the VRUK attachments but
Vuk is in negotiations with them and they may
fuse to make some kind of combo-product.

We'll have to see about that.

I was not aware of the "kit" you mentioned. I
will bring it up, when I talk to them next.

I use the Axis-A Longboard, which comes with
the VDL (Variable Drive Lever), which is very,
very useful. This changes the angle at which
the beater is brought down and this modifies
the response of the beater off the surface of
the drumhead/pad.

I'm continuing to experiment with pedals,
waiting for an Eliminator, right now.

Incidentally, Marco is a fine drummer, Tommy.

[peter]

Tommy,

Go out to the VRUK site and check
out the physics thre. I can attest
that the beaters are brought back
further and that the power gained
from them can't be matched and
that's not to mentioned what that
means for the second stroke.

[Tommy G.]

Hi Peter!
Thanks for the info on the VRUK site. I checked it out and it is very interesting to say the least. It seems like it may be worth a try for only $200 (for 2). I just hope the technique is easy to learn and I don't have too much "unlearning" to do. The pain in the neck with this setup is that I will have to modify my Drumframe somewhat to accept the added length it will have on my pedals. Based on your measurements you did for me (thank you very much) the Axis Longboards will fit perfectly by themselves. If you need any input on the Pearl Eliminators let me know - I've been experimenting with them for over 2 years now. Finally - I got a new DW kit this week. It's done up in broken glass finish ply with a blue fade. It will put any sparkle finish out there to shame. I know because my old DW kit (2 years old) was a lacquer sparkle job that just looks so weak next to the broken glass - you have to see it to believe it. I have a big kit, too. Two 22X18 bass drums, 8,10,12,14,16 Fast size rack mount toms and a 13X7 snare - all maple. The snare is unreal. It's the same size as the Yamaha Akira Jimbo beech snare that I have been using - which is also excellent. I crank 'em up really tight (but not choked) and I get get that great Bill Bruford sound.

Cheers!
Tom

[peter]

Tom,

That set-up sounds just fantastic.

Before you go for the VRUK attachments,
I want to talk to you about it.

I'm not sure if you are aware of it but
Tim Waterson uses them. If you contact
Vuk at VRUK, he will send you a CDR, which
includes Tim using his technique on the
VRUK attachments and which differs
markedly from Vuk's.

The technique (Vuk's) is NOT easy to learn.
Some of it counters the natural tendencies,
which drummers develop. That does NOT
mean, however, that the attachments are
not useful. If you approach it Tim's way,
especially on double-strokes, you can get
a LOT of power out your kicks.

Another thing to consider is how the Long-
board emulates the action somewhat,
giving the heel and opportunity to inter-
act with the beater. Heel-down players
will get a lot out of a Longboard.

Back to the VRUK - when just depressing
the attachments themselves, you get
powerful strokes into the kick surfaces
and this just cannot be matched, without
them. Especially the double-strokes are
enhanced, though I am not using them,
right now.

If you were in the Chicago area, I'd have
you try mine before you decided. It's not
for everyone but the physics are worth
some effort. If you have the money to
burn, I think you should have them around.

Let's chat more about it.

[peter]

Hey, Tommy. My wife is from Greenwich.
Where are you out there? I come out
there every year. I have family and clients
there. Who knows? Maybe we can hook
up someday.

[peter]

About those tendencies - we naturally
bring our feet down to produce strokes.
The VRUK works in the same way BUT
the heel produces a stroke on its own.

If you're producing strokes with the
heel, you need to accustom yourself
rhythmically to this. This is easier said
than done.

Still, it's worth some effort.

[peter]

Tom,

Why are you even thinking of using
another pedal, like the Axis-A Longboard,
when you're using the Eliminator?

Of course, I use the Axis-A but I have an
Eliminator being sent to me, so that I
can try them side-by-side.

I'm interested in the different cams. I
ordered the belt-drive for smoother
action. I understand they're using kevlar
now so I'm not worried about wear.

Speak of the devil! I just received it!

I have tried all the cams, preferring the
blue cam. You might have guessed. :D

Easy adjustments etc. The cams come
out and back in quickly too.

This is a fine pedal. It certainly feels
different on my left foot. I had to loosen
the spring a little for it.

I wish it had a longboard.

I'm tempted.

[peter]

I was just on the phone with the
factory at Axis. I was inquiring about
these optional spacers that allow for
the raising of the footboard. I'm ordering
them so as to raise the angle, which I
believe I will like, especially for my
doubles, which I have been spending
more time on lately.

I'll wait to receive them before I make
a decision on whether to sell my Long-
board for another Pearl or the other way
around. Tom, let me know if you're inter-
ested and I'll give you dibs. ;)

[Tommy G.]

Hi Peter!
I am in Shelton at the very Northeastern end of Fairfield County just past Trumbull - maybe 40 - 45 minutes from Greenwich on a good traffic day. I'm definitely into getting together when you come to CT.
How are your doubles with the Pearl? The strap (which I have) will be no problem in terms of wear. You can really go nuts with the settings with all of the cams. The red one looks like it may be imitating the Axis drive a bit by pushing the strap closer to the drum. Even though the red cam makes the pedal feel really light (and don't forget about the 3 powershift adjustments at the heel) but you may need to compensate for loos of power by raising the beater a bit. It's just the reverse as you go from blue to white to black. I dug out the sonic hammers today and tried some settings again - yuk!! I definitely don't care for them. You know what beater is nice though is the Axis Marksman. They were on the X pedals I tried and I put them on the Pearls and the rebound was great. Let me know how you make out with those spacers. The steeper the angle the better. The guy at Axis told me the Axis pedals were designed to compensate for the weight of the Sonic Hammers. I don't think so. They were like moving a truck on the Axis X's. :))

Enjoy and keep me posted.

Happy Friday!

Tom

[peter]

Tommy,

I just installed the spacers.

YOU HAVE TO GET THEM! Put
three of them on (the max) and
it's just a world of a difference!

[Tommy G.]

P,
Excellent. Are the doubles easier to do? How does it compare with the Pearl pedal now? You had asked me before why I would even consider another pedal. Well - the truth is anything that will make my doubles easier and faster to do I will buy it! The problem for me is that the likes of Sam Ash and Guitar Center and all the other so-called rumshops in the area don't carry the full line of Axis equipment. I suppose I'll have to order it (hopefully from Guitar Center - they had the X's before - the ONLY pair in the whole friggin' store! I need that 30 day trial with a money back guarantee feature. What would you estimate the angle of the footboard to be with the spacers on?
I tried a new combo on the Pearl today with the red cam, my usual spring tension (slightly more than medium) and moving the beater height up (leave about an 8th of an inch of beater shaft showing out of the bottom of the shaft hole. It was cranking! Rolling at 220 bpm no problem. Fairly powerful strokes, too.
Are you also using the Axis driveshaft? I hope so because there is zero "play" in it - which is what you need in a double pedal for precision. Looking forward to your reply.

Tom

[Tommy G.]

Rumshops? Sure! let's try Drumshops! :)

[peter]

Tommy,

I have one Axis-A Longboard and now,
one Pearl Eliminator. I have to hold onto
one and sell the other.

After trying the spacers, I'm in REAL trouble
now (much harder for me to decide).

The doubles ARE easier, Tom.

A higher footboard makes it the superior
pedal, with the better action. It's so easy,
at the higher angle, to find that sweet spot.
That's the Longboard design for you. It's
a great approach to kicking.

By the way, the spacers lifted the footboard
by 3/4 inch. It doesn't seem like much but it
sure feels like it!

At higher speeds, you have to make sure you
are in the perfect spot on the Eliminator.
You can find it but it's just not as easy
as with the Axis-A Longboard.

Since the Longboards are so expensive, it
makes it a hard choice but if you're playing
single-kick, I think you just have to have
them. It's just that good - that smooth.

Remember that the Axis-A Longboards have
the VDL, which allows you to come back
below a 90-degree pulldown of the beater
lever and this is a totally different
feel here. Doubles are ultimate, here.

I did adjust the Eliminator's Power Shifter
to the A position, which I like, Tom.

Boy, oh boy...

[Tommy G.]

P,
Would you say your Axis board angles is around 45 degrees?
My Powershifter position in this last setup is in the middle - usually I have it all the way back. You can get a better rebound if you tune up the head slightly. Looks like I'll probably try some Longboards within the next few weeks. I have to know!!! Sometimes I can be such an equipment geek. :)

T.

[peter]

They are a different animal, Tom.

I spent 40 minutes on the phone
with Axis design yesterday! What
a nice guy! Try talking to someone
from Pearl or Yamaha!

We talked about the VDL, the long-
board etc. I asked him to consider
making the longboard longer. He
said that I was not the first to ask
for it. He is actually considering it
and when it happens, I'll be one
of the first to know.

He encouraged me to reset the
beater distance back, using the
Allen wrench and also said that
if I had X's, to reset the base
plate forward to see what that
would do.

He went on to mention that he
was aware of how "some" of
the major drum companies are
trying to get around his patent
with all of these different ideas
but that they have not gotten
there yet. ;)

He mentioned that drummers
have not gone for the VRUK idea,
the triggering of the stroke, via
the heel-mechanism apparently
too much of an adjustment for
them, though he acknowledges
Tim Waterson's use of it.

When you try them, make sure
you are working on the Axis-A
Longboard, WITH the VDL. You
have try all the options on it,
especially the setting closest
towards you.

The Power-Shifter setting was
another idea that originally
came from Axis and when set
furthest away, or towards the
head, your maximum rebound
should be gotten.

I can be a geek about things
but mostly pedals and hardware.
When it comes to drums I'm al-
most generic, choosing durable
composites that aren't weather
sensitive. Heads matter more.

Let me know how your experience
goes and don't buy anything until
you check with me on your prices.

[Tommy G.]

P,
Great info! I will let you know.

T.

[peter]

Tom,

Do me a favor and check into the
DW9000 pedals and give me your
review of them. When I play it, I
will do the same but I have a recom-
mendation on it and I want to check
it out thoroughly.

[Tommy G.]

Peter,
I can tell you already that the footboard is way too short on 9000. Doubles and DW pedals don't go together.
The best price I can get on the longboards is 200 a piece. How much was your spacer kit and is it possible to raise your footboard higher with more spacers or was 3 the absolute maximum limit?

Tom

[peter]

Tom,

Thanks for the note on the DW9K.

To raise the footboard on the Longboard,
you can pull back the beater by undoing
the Allen screw, over the spring assembly.
Just pull it back to 30-35-degrees. You
will get a lot more whip from it. Now, you
may have to loosen the tension a tad. Try
and feel what's right for you. This is a start.

Now, adding the spacers is easy. Undo the
Allens at the top of the footboard and in-
sert the spacers. It'll cost $11, with shipping
and handling. Nothing. It works. I asked for
shorter screws, though. They protrude just
a little. Really, you can use any washers
down there but their spacers are made for
the job. I'll let you know if they replace them.

It feels a LOT better with them.

I think that 5 is the max, 4 being realistic.

3 seems like enough.

That thing is a work of art.

[peter]

On the Eliminators, I find that the best
setting for the Power Shifter is all the
way in, for the best doubles.

What do you guys think?

[jimi]

how is it best peter?

[peter]

Well, I think you should try them all
but what I have found is that the
best action (rebound) for doubles,
is with it all the way in, towards the
kick but at the sacrifice of power,
which is best gotten all the way
out or away from the kick. I can
get the action anywhere. It just is
easiest, all the way in.

Check it out. :)

[jimi]

Jeez, i'd say apply for a job at Axis! the amount of research you do about the physics of the pedal is phenominal!:) good stuff peter, and thanks for the (even more) advice:D

[Tommy G.]

Hi Guys!
I just ordered 2 Axis A Longboards yesterday plus the spacer kits. I'll let you know in about 3 to 4 weeks. Guitar Center had a good price - $185 each.

Tom G.

[peter]

Tom,

You should have contacted me.
Those are decent prices, though.

You must have tried them.

What did you think?

[peter]

Darrell (Axis) told me not
to be shy about using the
Allen wrench and moving
that beater back. Be inquis-
itive, Tom. Let me know
how you progress with 'em.

[Tommy G.]

I haven't tried them at all. I'm just basically going for it. I went with the silver instead of classic black.

T.

[peter]

Tommy,

When you get them, just be prepared
for a radical difference. At first, it may
not seem right but let's chat, then. I
have worked extensively with this ped-
al, whose design is superior.

Let me know when you get them, OK?

Check out this re-recording I did of
this tune, with the Eliminator Blue-Cam:

www.thediametrixletter.com/mambonights9.mp3

www.thediametrixletter.com/dogpoops20.mp3

[Tommy G.]

Peter,
I should have them in 2 to 3 weeks. I will definitely let you know when I pick them up.

Tom

[Tommy G.]

Peter,
Going to pick up my longboards tomorrow. Should be toying with them by Saturday afternoon. The spacer kits are coming next week.
What's new?

I'll keep you posted.

Tom

[peter]

Great, Tom. When you set them
up, be real patient and let's talk
about your approach to them
exhaustively. Try and review this
thread too. I have talked a lot
about them. Congratulations!

[Tommy G.]

Hey Peter!
Just got the pedals set up and only 5 minutes in I can already tell these things are fantastic! Doubles no problem. Tons smoother and quieter with more leverage than the Pearls by far. The VDL is really cool! These are great! Plenty of time to tweak but I don't have to do too much. The spacers should prove to be interesting when I receive them. Excellent response already as is. Talk to you soon.

Tom

[peter]

I knew you would love them!

[Tommy G.]

Hey Peter!
These pedals are so good I am getting the Longboard Hi Hat stand. These pedals are so accurate. I have them both in phase with each other. I'm currently working the Extreme Interdependence book by Marco Minnemann. With his systems I alternate the left foot - making sure I can do it on the left bass drum pedal as well as the hihat - which sounds totally different. When I am playing both bass drums together sometimes their is some flamming going on which I have corrected quite a bit with the Eliminators. After using these A Longboards for only 2 days my flamming is almost gone!! Sweet! I have my Pearl beaters 5.5 inches back from the head, medium spring tension, and the VDL is about 3/8 of an inch from the very top position
I'll be trying the sonic hammers shortly. I didn't like them before with the Pearls because they were too heavy. Maybe the Lonboards can give me more leverage - I'll let you know. One thing I can predict - 16th notes at 220 bpm will be history after I practice on these for a bit.

Talk to you soon.

Tom

[peter]

Tom,

Great news!

The Hammers still may be heavy, UNLESS
you use your Allen wrench to pull back the
original position of the beaters. You will
have to experiment. I did not like them.

I am very happy that you are enjoying
the Axis-A pedals. :)

[peter]

Tom,

Give us a progress report, Tom! :)

[peter]

I set up my Axis-A Longboard
for the first time in two months,
just to see how they stacked
against my Eliminators, which
I have grown to love.

IT FELT BETTER! This pedal is
the top! I have to get another
one sometime!

The pedal is not as versatile,
in terms of ease of change in
the beater angle, HOWEVER
it is "naturally-set" at what ap-
pears to be the best position
and doesn't need much ad-
justment. Amazing design! :)

[Tommy G.]

Hey Guys!
The Longboards are coming along fine. The spacers are on and seem to work fine (2 per pedal). I tried the Sonic Hammers again but I still prefer the Pearl 4 way beater. My doubles are up to 208 bpm - almost there at 220. I'm finding a very light spring tension is working better than a medium tension. You don't need much with the amount of leverage the Longboards offer. The beater is 5.5 inches from the head, almost all the way up. The VDL is still set at about 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch back from the full forward positon. I'm loving these - just taking them for very long "walks" lately to get the feel - then running like crazy - wow! As a matter of fact I just posted my tiny review of the Longboards on www.Tigerbill.com. It turns out Tiger has been test driving them for the past couple of months and he thinks they are the cream of the crop as well - PERIOD!!!! I should have my Longboard hihat shortly and I will let you know how that is.

Tom G.

[peter]

I have the SAME beaters, Tom!
I know what you mean! I was
JUST on them. They are SO, SO
sensitive. I'm so relaxed on that
pedal! It's amazing!

I'm eventually going to have to
do it, aren't I? ;)

Remember to use these double-
strokes. Find places for them in
the music. It's not so we can do
them but to use them. :)

[Tommy G.]

I hear you on the doubles. Those are my pure "raw speed" numbers just for my own satisfaction. It's hard to keep that up for more than a minute. Obviously you have to take the long double stroke rolling technique and chop it up into smaller bits like 3,5,7,9, 17 anyone? And don't forget triplets!!! You can get some amazing grooves happening if you think outside the bun!

[peter]

These double-stroke rolls
are comprised of doubles
on each kick.

Use those pairs as much
as possible, introducing
everything you can with
them, so they'll get better
and better.

I know you will. :)

[Tommy G.]

Hi Peter!
Happy belated Thanksgiving!
I had to start this thread because for some reason the regular Axis thread wasn't accepting my replies. What a pain!
I'm getting my Longboard hi hat tomorrow. I'll fill you in if I get the friggin' posts working. Anyway I am getting an annoying buzz from the beater producing a slight secondary hit after the primary stroke. I am not a bury the beater in the head type of player. I tried tightening the resonant head a bit and it helped but not 100 percent. The problem goes away when I use the part of the pedalboard just below the top of Axis logo. I personally find the part of the pedalboard where it makes a right hand turn towards the center to be more comfortable no matter what the spring tension or VDL is set to. Right now my beater is the Pearl quad using the hard surface, 5 1/2 inches back from the head and almost at full height. The spring tension is low. A medium tension doesn't do a thing. If I bring the beater back more I fear my doubles will suffer. I use Evans EMAD heads with DW ebony (remo) resonants with 6 dime sized holes in them. What do you think?

Tom

[peter]

Tom,

Were you always getting this
buzz/extra-action?

It sounds like you're heel-up,
with only a small portion of
your foot on the footboard to
steady it, after the stroke.

Try keeping more of your foot
on the board for the doubles.
One way to try is having your
heel totally off the board and
touching the ground. I know
this sounds crazy but try it.

I think you will need to either
loosen the spring or bring the
beater closer to the head and
tightening it.

Darrell suggested pulling the
beater way back, using the
Sonic Hammers (SH's), the up-
per portion set forward almost
as far as it can go for compen-
sation. He believes this is the
ultimate whip-action.

Remember that the VDL pulls
the beater back the most when
it is set closest to you.

Try these ideas and get back to
me straight-away.

[Tommy G.]

Hi Peter!
I tried increasing the spring tension to about 3/4 full. This seems to have worked so far. The beater is about an inch and a half from the head when I am resting my feet on the pedals (heel down). It's a little more work but I haven't lost that much speed. The VDL is about 1/2 inch back from the full forward position. I read on the Pearl website about their suggestions for pedal adjustments. They suggested starting out with the beater 4 inches from the head with your feet in the resting position. Do you think that's a bit much? I wonder if I should pull the beater back more and lighten up the spring tension to compensate. It definitely looks like the distance from the head in the resting position (feet on pedals) is key. I've always been used to a very light pedal feel. Maybe I'll have to adjust a little. I did not get my Longboard Hi Hat yesterday so it HAS to be today. For reference - how far back is your beater when you rest your feet on the pedals?
On a side note I scored a 979 on the Drumometer 2 weeks ago. My goal is 1000.
Thanks P.

Tom

[peter]

OK, Tom. Sounds like you're
getting to the bottom of it. ;)

In answer to your question,
it depends. When I'm double-
stroking, I'd say 5-inches.

When I am playing during the
tune, heel-down (usually), it's
about 2-4 inches.

Now, when I'm on the Axis-A,
I have usually been heel-down
and with about 4-inches.

For double-stroking, I have
found that the best VDL set-
ting is 75%-100% towards
you. You can compensate for
this with looser spring tension,
if you need to.


Keep up the good work. :)

[Tommy G.]

Hi Peter.
I was in the "LAB" today experimenting a bit. I tried setting the beaters way back to about 7 inches to 8 inches. Great stroke but too much distance to travel. I think I am moving towards a 5 1/2 inch distance from the head and a slight pullback on the VDL. I was having some trouble re-setting the beater angle (and footboard height) to try and start from scratch. The hex screws that go into the axle rod can cause indentations or burrs. I had one beater at 5 1/4 inches and the other was at 5 1/2. I was trying to get the 5 1/2 adjusted and no matter what or how careful I was every time I tightened the set screws the thing would drop in to one of those indentations. I spoke with Darrell at Axis and he informed me that you can sand those down and start fresh again. Just curious - have you ever shredded the New Breed books - I & II? They are fantastic. My bread and butter. I have been through both in their entirety. Gary Chester knew what he was doing. This guy wasn't on 15,000 recordings for nothing. Check them out if you haven't done so already. No Hi Hat today either. UPS must be busy with the holidays. I also purchased the Axis super clutch where you can tillt the TOP cymbal as well! This should be cool with my angled Drumframe setup.

Tom

[peter]

Tom,

Hmm. Interesting. I suggested to
Darrell that he seriously consider
the Uni-Clamps that are being used
by Yamaha and Pearl for beater
distance setting.

If you set up your beaters back,
remember that you MUST use the
SH's (Sonic Hammers) to compen-
sate for that added distance. It's
also possible that we'll need a
lower gauge spring.

I haven't checked that (G. Chester)
out, Tom but will in the future.

Stay with it, man! :)

[Tommy G.]

I also suggested to Darrell about using those same uniclamps! Let's face it - they are a lot less cumbersome. I also suggested incorporating bolts you can tighten with a drum key instead of using allen wrenches. That would be another added bonus.

Tom

[peter]

You got it, Tom!

[Tommy G.]

It's finally here!!!! Merry Christmas to ME!
The longboard hihat is great! The only complaint I have is when using two bass drums the hihat (no matter which brand) is always an inch or two closer and never alighned perfectly with the left bass pedal. I need to come up with a design for that. The action is great and what really is nice is the Axis super clutch. My "chic" from my 13" K over Z hats is much more crisp and louder than with the Tama iron cobra. The bottom cymbal sits on just 3 small points of contact as well as the top one. No big felt washers or constricting felt clutches. Plus - the bottom and top cymbals can be tilted independently of each other - very cool! And one last nice feature - the hi hat stand itself can be tilted to accomodate your personal setup - without changing the footboard angle. Speaking of footboard angles - it would be nice to reduce the angle of the hi hat pedal board just a bit to match my pedals - but not by raising the heel end. I just may put a spacer on the bass pedals to raise it up to the hi hat level. this obviuosly makes it easier to play both bass and hi hat at the same time. I think I'll go into business for myself and take care of all these problems with my own inventions!!! Why are these details never thought out ahead of time? We are in the middle of a blizzard out here in Connecticut today - expecting 8 to 10 inches of snow.
Great day to stay in and practice!

Tom

[peter]

Go for it, Tom! :)

[Brobjer]

I am thinking of buying an Axis X2 doublepedal and was wondering some stuff about it.
Is this pedal a good allround pedal or is it only made for fast playing? Which beaters are the best; the "normal" or the beaters with a 90 degree angle towards the head?
I now have an Eliminator and is it really worth changing?

Thanks!
Brobjer

[Tommy G.]

Have you been reading our posts!!!!!?????
Forget about the x's! The A Longboards are the way to go - period!

[peter]

We have written a book on the
Axis-A. Tom is right. Read all the
posts. It'll be worth your time. :)

[Brobjer]

I just read all the specs on the Axis-A Longboards and it's a great job! Man, you guys know A LOT about these pedals. I have a good deal on two Axis-A pedals at a local store in Sweden, but they're not the Longboards though. I also checked Axis' website and noticed that they've constructed a link to make to singles into a double.
That's probably what I'll do, and I think I can exchange my Eliminator double into the two singles and then order the link.

OR, do you think I should wait till they have the Longboards in stock?

I wrote in another thread that I noticed that my Eliminator is set too far away from the head but as close as it possibly can. That is, when the beater is horisontal with the BD head, it still has a few inches to go before it strikes the head. Have any of you had this problem. I guess my bassdrum hoop is to thick, but Virgil, for example, has had the exact same kit as I do (Artist Birch), and he also has the Eliminators. Is this normal or a problem? Should I make the hoop thinner?

Thx dudes!

- Brobjer, andreasbrobjeronline.cjb.net

[Brobjer]

Hey guys! Does anyone of you know how much the Axis Double Pedal Conversion Kit costs? It's the connection kit which connects two Axis-A/X's into a double pedal. Check out

http://www.axispercussion.com/images/Ax2ck.jpg
to see what I mean.

I'm thinking of ordering it, but no American online-musicstores seem to have it in stock. Should I order it directly from the Axis Headline Office? I also tried to call them at (888)549-2947, but they sent me to an answering machine, so I cannot get in touch with them.

Thx,
Brobjer

[peter]

Call them tomorrow or Mon-Fri, from 10am-6pm PST.
If not, fax your inquiry, telling them I sent you (Peter
Corona) at 1-310-549-7728.

[Tommy G.]

Peter is correct. They will take care of you. Ask for Karen, or Darrell may just pick the phone up himself - he is the President. Tell him Tom Geisler AND Peter sent you! :)
Hey Peter - I have Darrell working on designing a custom part for me for the Longboard hihat to move the footboard forward a bit. We are in the conceptual stage now.
By the way - regarding my beater buzz - I put on the Evans eq3 ebony resonant heads with the 5 inch hole and that solved the problem. I needed more air to escape than the DW holes would allow. I'm back to a light spring tension and the sound is great too! Still using the Evans EMADs on the batter side. Also, the Evans heads seem to seat better on the bearing edges than Remo heads do (at least on the bass drums).

Tom

[peter]

Tom,

That's great.

Of course! It was the air! That makes a lot
of sense to me now!

Tommy, would you be willing to sell me your
Axis drive-shaft for my Eliminators and future
Axis-A Twins? I am going to have to go twin
soon, from two actual pedals due to pad
changes on my e-kit and am concerned
about what you brought up before, regarding
the play from one to other pedal.

I love this board and guys like you that help
keep the information flowing, while the myst-
eries at bay and manageable.

:)

[Brobjer]

Great guys, I'll call them today!

[Brobjer]

Yeah!! The Conversion Kit only cost 81.95 US$! That damn cheap!

Here in Sweden, musical instruments cost almost twice as much than in the States. An Eliminator would cost approximatly 600+$. And that Axis guy was really nice too.
Said and done, I will excange the Eliminator into two single Axis' and buy the conversion kit! Well, some time close after Christmas in any case =)

Andreas

[Tommy G.]

Hi Peter!
Happy holidays! Unfortunately I will be using the drive shaft in the future on a new 4 piece kit I am having made for me - DW of course. Otherwise you would have it by now. :) It's really not that expensive - maybe around $110 give or take. Well worth it. After you get one let me know how you like it.

Tom

[peter]

Tom,

So, when you get it, is it perfectly convertible
to the Axis AND Eliminator pedals?

[Tommy G.]

Yep! It pops right on!

T.

[Tommy G.]

Hey Peter - I was just wondering...with 688 posts do you find time to practice? LOL! Just kidding. :)

Tom

[peter]

Thanks, Tom.

I have 5000 posts at Billy's and 500 and HOD, plus I write a 3000 word analysis on the financial markets everyday. I just make some time to work on some tunes each day and think drums whenever I can.

Pete

[Tommy G.]

Peter,

What are the "Billy's" and "HOD" websites?

I was just reading the thread on doubles last night. Peter, I have to caution you to be prepared for a RADICAL change when you switch back to an acoustic drumkit. In 1996 after a 10 year layoff from drumming I purchased a Roland TD7 set and shredded 5 years on that before I "deserved" my current acoustic gem. It took me almost a year to get comfortable with it. Now I am comfortable on both. Prior to getting the acoustic DW's I would occasionally play at open mike nights on acoustic kits and believe me they felt WEIRD! It'll be interesting to see how your doubles are affected. I'd like to send you some pics of my kit. Can you send me a private email or message from here?

All The Best,
Tom

[peter]

Tom,

Describe to me how it felt and what you noticed.

diametrix1@yahoo.com

[Tom24]

to peter: there are some thousands of bots looking the net for email adresses, the vulture knows how many spammer get yours at the moment ;)

a problem which often occurs with web-archived mailinglists without email-scrambling use

name at domain dot top_level_domain can play one or two tricks on those bots :(

[peter]

I'll remember that, Tom. Thanks.

[Tommy G.]

Hello Brobjer!
Regarding that post where your beater needs to go forward a bit more after it reaches the parallel point of the batter head - this is typical of many pedals. The solution is to increase the angle of your bass drum to compensate for this. I don't particularly like the way pedals are designed like this. It seems very inefficient.


Tom G.

[Brobjer]

Okay, thanks Tommy. I have angled up my bassdrum a little towards me and the beater is now much more parallel with the pedal =)

Have y'all had a merry christmas?? :)

Andreas

[Brobjer]

A question,

Almost all people I've spoken to say the Axis pedal products are all super fast pedals, but has no feel when it comes to traditional groove playing. What I want is a pedal that is good for everything. Is Axis really the right one in that matter?

Another question,

With the Eliminator, I've experienced that the red cam is the cam that's gotten the 'worst' critique. Only because of the motion it produces.
Isn't that the cam that is most likely similar with the whole Axis idea?
What I've heard and experienced is that is the cam with the most speed, but least power. Is this the same with the Axis pedals, or are they a good allround pedal?

And the last question,

From what I've understood, the Longboards are pedals that came up because the normal Axis' where too short for players using heel down technique. I'm all heel up, and I am wondering what the advantages for me, compared with the normal Axis', are with the Longboards?
It would also be really nice if anyone could explain for me what the differences between the A and X models are. The only thing I've grasped is that the X pedal is made of a little cheaper material, and that they have none brushed steel on the plate. Are there any drawbacks in feel etc?

Thanks guys,

Brobjer

[peter]

As for the cams on the Eliminators, you
have to find what's right for you. It's
important to remember all the cams
and what they're best suited for.

Red - Best pullback/Least power.

Blue - Not as good a pullback, though still very good but greater power.

Black - Still not as good a pullback but the most powerful.

White - Average pullback along with average power.

Remember the info-key:

www.thediametrixletter.com/EliminatorInfo.jpg

Also make sure you try the Power-Shifter
close to the kick, for better response.

Axis pedals are made of Aluminum and
are very, very light. They are a joy to
carry and move around.

The difference between the X's and A's
is that the A's come with the VDL or
Variable Drive Lever. This, I think, is
essential, for customizing the action.

It takes care of what the cams try to
address and more, in my opinion.

The Longboard gives you more 'board'
to find that "sweet-spot". Lower on
the board, whether heel-up or down,
you will need less effort to produce
the stroke, as I have experienced.

You have to just get out there and
try one. Do NOT buy it sight unseen
and played. You owe it to yourself.

:)

[ghostnoter]

Hello all,

I am new to the board, but I am stunned by the wealth of information on this forum, and in particular the pedal. I have 2. I was most interested in getting the most out of the pedals. I am going thru the old posts to catch up with what Peter is doing, with it. I bought mine used and got no instuctions with either. I have no idea of how the adjustments, the vdl and how that is supposed to work, with the footboard angle, leg, calf positions, etc. I would be most interested in another spring, the spacers spoken of and I am looking into trying the vruk pedal. (Just ordered the cd-rom) I have yet to convert my pedals to double pedals, but I plan to. I have been sparotically working on the Ballistic Bassdrum workouts, too. I was shocked to find that that seems to be where the "idea" for it came from; the vruk pedal. (I seem to remember when it first came out. Thought it was a fluke. Boy, how wrong I was!) I have been trying to work at getting double bass performance/speed with one pedal. It would seem that I could possibly forgo trying to find a Twin Effects pedal by Sonor at a nice price, for the time being. (A fan of Thomas Lang. Has anyone seen the video? Thoughts?)
I will have to revisit Cobhams site too, to catch up as well! Haven't been there lately. It seems I don't have enough time in the day to catch up and do all the other things and deal with this new source of info...but, I'm trying. Thanks to Peter for his unselfish desire to share. I hope that I could give back in some way in the future.
Ghostnoter

[ghostnoter]

Brobjer,

Yes, the Axis is a great pedal for groove playing. I play mostly groove based music, in that of consisting of r&b, funk, and pop. I have had no problem in locking in with the bass player and being able to articulate the patterns, the syncopation of any beat I have had to play. I feel that a "heavy" pedal defeats the purpose of playing grooves.
I feel it's in the technique of the foot and partly in the pedal, it being light and swift in movement.
With using the longboard, I feel when I need to really step on the pedal, the angle with the longboard feels to me more comfortable. The shortboard feels weird with the angle with it being attached to the heel plate. Also, when doing any Ballistic bd stuff, I can't fit my foot on the board. (Not your problem) The longboard just looks better to me, too. Seems easier and more fluid in it's movement.
ghostnoter

[Bostic]

I have been using 2 A longboards singles on my kit for a little over a year. I have the Marksman hard rubber beats on them, not the Sonic Hammers. I also have one toe spacer on each to raise the footboard up just a bit. The spring tension is fairly tight, about 2 threads of the gold screw showing in between the two black nuts. Prior to them I had the regular X's which I didn't care for at all. Before that I used Tama Camcos for years and years. It took quite a bit of time to get used to the feel of the fixed linkage, the lack of 'feedback' you get compared to chain or strap pedals. I have been really happy with them until this NAMM....

The new Pearl Purple cam that is in between the Red and Blue is very very nice.I kept going back to the Pearl booth and playing that darn pedal. I was comparing the red on left foot and purple on right, both with the strap drive. With the spring tension medium tight they felt great just like the Axis longboards.

[peter]

I have finally purchased a 2nd Axis-A Longbaord
pedal and have added 3 spacers, to lift the foot-
board. I have also changed the spring to a slight-
ly lower gauge. I am VERY excited about its re-
sponse. I have Eliminators, with all the cams and
while they are great pedals, they just don't feel
as good as the Axis.

I use the Pearl Quads on them.

Of course, everyone's different. :)

[GreenPremier]

Awesome Peter, wish I could afford them.

[mtgarrett]

Peter what type of spring did you ditch the stock springs for?

[peter]

It looks exactly the same, except it is not
coated in black. The spring, however is a
slightly lower gauge. It's looser than the
'heavy-duty' spring that Darryl sends out,
with the Axis pedals, nowadays. At the
same time, it's LONGER than the lower
gauge that that they sent me, which I
really think needs re-thinking.

The additional spacers alsp lift my foot-
board so that I can play the spring at
a looser tension. I REALLY like it.

[Tommy G.]

Hey Peter!
I haven't posted anything since 12-23-2003. Glad to hear you got the 2nd Axis pedal.
I use the regular springs. I took my Longboard hihat to a machine shop about 2 weeks ago and they are customizing it with all sorts of little goodies. I'll fill you in when I get it back. I'm still working the extreme Interdependence book religiously. I'm also going to break 1000 on the drumometer soon, I'm up to 979 with the hands.
I'll chime back in soon!

Tommy G.

[PolyOstinato]

Vruk doesn't stand for anything, it's the Yugoslavian (I think!) fellow's name.

[peter]

Hey, Tom!

Nice to see you back again. I have also bought
the twin attachment and have hooked it up. It
is REAL SMOOTH. I am excited about it.

I also bought new snare and kick pads (this, a
larger Hart trigger to accomodate the two beat-
ers of the twins). Have not received that latter
yet and can't wait.

I am looking forward to the challenge of a soft-
er surface, which will also help my singles.

Let me know what you're doing, Tom. You have
my curiousity going and you also know that I
can think of a few things for this monster. ;)

PO,

Vruk is the fellow's name. That's right.

Cya's...

[IronCobraMan]

that VRUK shit probably means, cheating in german...... if u cant play fast without it, u dont diserve to play it at all.... thats my two sense....

[peter]

ICM,

The VRUK attachment is akin to a longboard
extension, making one's pedal more of a direct
drive type of pedal; whose beater is brought
back from the head faster than a conventional
pedal. It allows more action generated from
the heel. It is just another idea and principle
applied to the drum pedal.

It is not a simple task to learn to use it. I
think that if you can work it, chances are
you are better than most.

[jimi]

Hmmm, Is Tim Waterson a cheater??

[peter]

Tim does it with and without VRUK.

I haven't used the VRUK, since I can
remember and actually have a tougher
time with it, than not.

[IronCobraMan]

vruk is for lazy drummers.... ive hit 350 bpm steady singles for about 8 secs.... now that may not seem like alot of time...but dammit , at least im not cheating..... and no tim isnt a cheater...because he's able to play fast without it....

[jimi]

I meant that the longboard uses the same method so im wondering can Tim do the same speeds on a eliminator or something. His technique is interesting but nothing id aspire to ...

[peter]

ICM,

I know that you mean well.

Can I ask you something? Have you tried to
play the kick-drum, with a VRUK attachement,
on your pedal? Do you know what the attach-
ment does - I mean the mechanics?

Have you ever played a direct-drive pedal and
is this pedal, if you use it, evidence that you
'cheat' on on the drums?

I don't think you'll say that it is, just as much
as I don't think you'll say bouncing the stick on
the head of the drum is.

A bad drummer will sound bad with whatever
equipment is used.

I think you may be discouraging legitimate in-
quiry into just another piece of equipment, with-
out intending to or realizing it.

I have talked to Vuk, I have used it. I have
talked to Tim. He has used it.

If anything, you'll have a rougher time at it.

Cheating? Not at all. I wish I could just lend
you these and have you play them, so that
you can see for yourself.

As for being able to reproduce results on a-
nother pedal, I think it would be the same as
if we asked Virgil to do the same on a pair
Mapex bargain basement's.

There is nothing wrong with finding equipment
that suits your purpose.

I have Longboards and I have Eliminators. The
principle that I use is the same for both but
the pedals radically differ.

The idea that equipment makes the drummer
is just way out of context. At the same time,
we should allow for people to find their com-
fort. Let's encourage, not discourage.

You might as well have everyone play the
same drums, set up the same way and any-
one who does something different is "cheat-
ing". Now, I know you don't believe that.

"What? You're using a red cam?! That's cheat-
ing!" "What?! You're using the 'Giant Step'?!
That's cheating!" "What?! You're tightening
your heads for better response?! That's
cheating!"

Do you see what I mean. Think about it.

Pete

[jimi]

So why use the word "cheater" ironcobraman, thats simply what i meant from my first post ...

[incurve]

peter - just shelled out the funds to purchase this fine pedal, and am enjoying it very much. wanted to thank you for your helpful reviews! I went over them thoroughly prior to purchasing the instrument.

wanted to know if you had any special setup or case you use to protect the drums in transit? a lot of mainstream pedals out there come with custom injection molded cases, and to the best of my knowledge, axis doesn't have anything of the sort.

what are you using? thanks for your help.

jonathan



ICM,

I know that you mean well.

Can I ask you something? Have you tried to
play the kick-drum, with a VRUK attachement,
on your pedal? Do you know what the attach-
ment does - I mean the mechanics?

Have you ever played a direct-drive pedal and
is this pedal, if you use it, evidence that you
'cheat' on on the drums?

I don't think you'll say that it is, just as much
as I don't think you'll say bouncing the stick on
the head of the drum is.

A bad drummer will sound bad with whatever
equipment is used.

I think you may be discouraging legitimate in-
quiry into just another piece of equipment, with-
out intending to or realizing it.

I have talked to Vuk, I have used it. I have
talked to Tim. He has used it.

If anything, you'll have a rougher time at it.

Cheating? Not at all. I wish I could just lend
you these and have you play them, so that
you can see for yourself.

As for being able to reproduce results on a-
nother pedal, I think it would be the same as
if we asked Virgil to do the same on a pair
Mapex bargain basement's.

There is nothing wrong with finding equipment
that suits your purpose.

I have Longboards and I have Eliminators. The
principle that I use is the same for both but
the pedals radically differ.

The idea that equipment makes the drummer
is just way out of context. At the same time,
we should allow for people to find their com-
fort. Let's encourage, not discourage.

You might as well have everyone play the
same drums, set up the same way and any-
one who does something different is "cheat-
ing". Now, I know you don't believe that.

"What? You're using a red cam?! That's cheat-
ing!" "What?! You're using the 'Giant Step'?!
That's cheating!" "What?! You're tightening
your heads for better response?! That's
cheating!"

Do you see what I mean. Think about it.

Pete

[peter]

Jonathan,

I am glad that I was helpful to you. I still use them
and have not found anything quite like them. I en-
courage you to work with the VDL, remembering the
strokes that you will be using most and what settings
are best to facilitate them.

As I am no longer on the road, it's not been an issue
for me BUT it is a very good question that you bring
up. These pedals are a considerable investment and
deserve a case of their own (of some type). I suggest
contacting Darryl, at Axis, for starters.

Be creative. If I come up with something for you, I
will post it, here.

Hey, Don (if you are reading) - What are your thoughts
on this. D-Slam is a user too and is out a lot.

Play on, man!!!

:)

[Blast_Duck]

Hello Peter,

I recently ordered the Axis A2 Double pedals. They havnt arrived yet.

I read this entire thread and first i would like to say thankyou for providing so much information that seems to be helping eevryone out.

I wish to ask you something which came up only briely in the thread. I notice everyone seems to get the longboards rather than the standard axis A2's. I would like you to please tell me i am not doomed for getting the standard pedals lol, (i dont do any heel-toe). It should be a worthy upgrade from Iron Cobra Jr. series anyways.

Also have you tried the Tama I.C felt beaters on the Axis Pedals?

Lastly, I understand you speak with Darrell at Axis from time to time. Do you know how European distribution for Axis is coming along? I live in England and after reading the thread i decided i might like to get the riser and longboard upgrade kits but i cant seem to find these anywhere.

Once again thanks, hopefully we can have an in-depth chat about the pedals when they arrive next week and i start toying with them.

[peter]

BD,

You are welcome to any help that I might be
able to provide.

As for the long versus short-board, I believe
the longboard allows you more room to oper-
ate and perhaps a better chance at zeroing-
in on a "sweet-spot" for fast-doubling. They
are more comfortable for my heel. Almost acts
like a cushion.

If it's possible to try, you really should.

As for how things are going with distribution
over there, I have not talked to him in a
while but I will be soon, so I will bring it up.

Success to you and let me know whatever
questions you may have.

:)

[Blast_Duck]

At Last my Axis A2 double pedal arrived along with the tama beaters!
They arrived earlier today and i immediately strted setting them up.

If i was to be perfectly honest, i would say that the pedals are not very user-friendly when it comes to adjustments...for example the spring tension adjusting is a nightmare because the wing nuts are so small, in an awkward crevice near the floor and so close to eachother.

I put my Tama felt beaters in right away. Tomorow I plan to try out the axis beaters that came with it but i didnt have much time to experiment today, which was slightly frustrating as i was so excited.

I connected everything up and had a feel. I was impressed at how co-operative the pedals were with my feet. Then i noticed the VDL wasnt even anywhere near the back! I slid this back to achieve that 'floaty' feeling everyone talks about and that was when i realised what these pedals were all about.

I did encounter a problem though. When the VDL on the slave pedal is set all the way back, there is some abnormal friction between the bottom of the VDL and the frame of the pedal :-( To avoid this i had to set it about 1milimeter from the back. I really want to know how to solve this....maybe it is because its straight out the box and it needs to wear in.

I began playing with the spring tensions (a nightmare for my fingers). This adjustment seems very different on the axis pedals. It doesnt seem to have such a direct impact on the feel of the pedal. I saw that in the manual provided by Axis it said that Axis pedals are designed to respond well even on light spring tension. I intend to explore this fully tomorow.

Also i would like to ask if i can somehow increase the pedalboard angle of the right pedal. On chain drive pedals this involved shortening the chain that connected to the top of the pedal...what can i do with the axis pedals?

I also need to buy a sturdy drum throne. I have little balance on the wooden stool im using at the moment and im sitting ratehr low which is hindering performance.

I think after doing this....and optimising the pedals properly i will be completely happy but until then i am still impressed with them a lot.

[peter]

Indeed, the ease of adjustment is the weak point
in the Axis Pedal, though the VDL is quite easy and
it does the job.

Axis has alternate springs and you can get creative
with these. I like the heavy gauge, all the way loose.

On raising the angle of the footboard - what you need
are the spacers. Get 2 extra, for each pedal. Order
these directly from them.

Make sure you try every position on the VDL and I en-
courage top try light to heavy beaters. I prefer Pearl
Quads on them, myself.

Good luck and I am hear for any questions you might
have on them.

:)

[Blast_Duck]

Oh. It's a shame i live in the UK, i believe there isn't anywhere here where you can buy the Axis accessories (springs / riser kits).

Do you think I should try the springs from my Iron Cobra Jr. pedals? Or will there be a compatability issue?

[Qaatar]

What kind of technique do you use? If you use a lot of ankle (and not leg), setting the VDL extremely low might help with speed and volume, especially at higher tempos. However, if you do this, you should also set the beater distance to around 3-4" or so to compensate for when you are playing eighths or slower sixteenths, as a low VDL really sort of hampers med-speed playing (at least in my case, as I used to play heel-down). Also, do you play flat-footed?

[peter]

Oh. It's a shame i live in the UK, i believe there isn't anywhere here where you can buy the Axis accessories (springs / riser kits).

Do you think I should try the springs from my Iron Cobra Jr. pedals? Or will there be a compatability issue?

Darryl would ship, I am sure. :)

[Blast_Duck]

I'll give it a think. thanks peter.

i have one problem/question.

Somehow i cant get the slave and master pedals on my double pedal to be identical.
I noticed that the master pedal beater rocks back and forth many more times after releasing my foot from the pedal then the slave pedal. This also means that when releasing my feet from the pedals simultaneously the beaters do not rock back and forth in sync.

Also the slave pedal after playing for a while, seems to resist more when the beater gets closer to the head. I loosened the VDL cam and raised it a little then tightened it back on which solves it until it does it again 5 minute later.

Basically i need to get the left feeling like the right.

[scottevtv]

Are the toe spacers still a seperate purchase?

[Blast_Duck]

yeh unfortunately. I may have to make my own out of wood or something... good idea?

[scottevtv]

Hey Peter, I was thinking of putting some Slug Beaters on my Axis 'A's. These would be in place of the Sonic Hammers. What do you think? I think I want to replace the Hammers and I am not sure what type of beater to look at..

[Blast_Duck]

Hey Peter, I was thinking of putting some Slug Beaters on my Axis 'A's. These would be in place of the Sonic Hammers. What do you think? I think I want to replace the Hammers and I am not sure what type of beater to look at..

i know you asked peter but i bought the AXIS A double a few months ago and i like the Iron Cobra felt beaters.

[scottevtv]

Yeah, I have seen a bunch of people using the Tama beaters on their Axis pedals.. I would have to try it. Next time I go to my drum store I want to look at Slug Beaters and the Puresound Speedball beaters.. Does any one have either one and how do you like them on your Axis pedals?

[Blast_Duck]

Yeah, I have seen a bunch of people using the Tama beaters on their Axis pedals.. I would have to try it. Next time I go to my drum store I want to look at Slug Beaters and the Puresound Speedball beaters.. Does any one have either one and how do you like them on your Axis pedals?

I have never heard of anyone using anything other than TAMA IC/Pearl Quad/Danmar wood/Marksman/Sonic Hammers on their AXIS pedals. Give em a try scottevtv.

[peter]

Hey, Blast. Sorry I have not been around
as much. Markets are crazy.

I use Quads on mine. I love the feel of them.
I would go for anything lighter and btw, use
those weights that are available from Pearl
too. Experiement and see what you like.

The only thing I hate about Axis are all the
Allen screws and the lack of changeability, on
the fly, that I think pedals like the Eliminator or
perhaps this new Trick pedal have.

[Blast_Duck]

Hello again Peter how is life?
I hear a lot of people using pearl quads on their AXIS.
Be sure to give a very detailed review of the new trick pedal when you get the chance to try one, i look forward to hearing exactly what it has over other pedals and whether it really is worth the ridiculous money it is anticipated to cost.
I am unfortunatley leaving the AXIS Army due to hiccups on my slave pedal and difficulty of repair being so far from the USA.
Peter, I have read the entire thread and you are easily the most articulate and descriptive person on the forum and i would appreciate it if you could go into detail about your Eliminators which you have brushed over a few times throughout the forum. If you are busy no worries.
Thanks man.
BD

[cjcdrums]

Peter's the man, no doubt about it! :D

[peter]

BD,

Well, of course, I hate to lose a good man but
I realize that the Axis pedals are not perfect. I
would change some things, if it were left up to
me. I have not experienced the problem that
you have described. I love my twins, though I
am sending one in for some service that I am
apparently unable to apply, myself.

Anyway, it seems like your mind is set and so,
I want to help you find an alternative and there
are some. In my opinion, what you need to do
is emulate the VDL. That is what makes the
Axis-A the A#1 pedal, in my book but people
are onto it. Case in point, the Pacific Boa-Pedal.

This pedal has a revolutionary design that you
should try out. By moving the footboard forward,
you can increase the beater response, much like
the Axis-A experiences, with the VDL. You have
to use an Allen-wrench (LOL) but you get real
changeability, with very little movement in the
footboard. I think you will like the action. Give
it a try and see what you think. It is SO quiet
and very smooth. I really think it's cool. It is
a great concept. The bummer is that I have
been waiting for it for two years and they said
it would be priced under $150. Hah!

Before I forget, plan on spending $200 plus for
each Boa-Pedal (another constrictor on the
wallet). LOL

As for Eliminators, I just talked, again, about
them in another thread and have, many times,
here and at HOD. Again, for the money, these
pedals are the best buy and give you the best
in response in the price class. Plan on $130,
for the Eliminator. Killer price.

The DW9K is a fine pedal and offers a 'Universal-
Cam' but the adjustments are not radical enough
for me. The Eliminator gives better response, with
the Black, Blue, Purple and Red Cams - the latter
of which provide the best response. I prefer the
belts, like Virgil - choosing Purple and Blues, most
of the time. Check the related threads for lots
of info on them, including other official info. And
I love these pedals, by the way. Plan to spend
$200 plus on the DW9K. Too much, for me.

The DW7K is not a bad value and come with a
decent cam-design (quasi-radical). Try it. The
price is right, if the response is. You won't know
until you try it. I kind of liked it. I bought a
couple for my nephew and he loves them but
then the price was right for him. hehe

I will let you know about the Trick pedal, when
I play them. I was invited out there a while back
but things have been really busy. I will get to
these, eventually. I promise. I hear good things.
I like the idea of the compression spring. There
is a lever pulldown adjustment that I am inter-
ested in, which is supposedly another Universal-
Cam device, which I think is absolutely necessary,
being spoiled, as we are. I like what I have seen
and heard, so far.

There are some good reviews on the Giant-Step.
I have seen photos of it but have not played it.
I have not been convinced about that design but
again, I have not played it. Forget the price.

I don't think I can ever play a pedal that does
not have some kind of Universal-Cam system.
I have to have the radical settings, like you
get with the VDL, the Blue, Purple and Red
Cams and the Power-Shifter.

Your best bet, right now, is the Boa-Pedal, the
Trick Pedal (Oh! My buddy, Brad, at HOD, played
one and loved it, btw) and the Eliminator. That
is my opinion.

Oh! The Yamaha Flying Dragons are nice but
do not have a Universal-Cam System. It's hit
or miss with them. Hassy loves 'em, so you
might. You never know. Try them. These are
around $140, I think.

If you were going to ask about the Iron-Cobra,
I have one but do not think it compares, with
other designs. Best of luck and I'll keep an eye
out, always looking at the new ideas. These
are around $130, I think.

PS: If you still have the Axis-A's and can take
a picture of them, set-up, with the problem
issue, somehow illustrated, I would be glad to
look at them. Derek and some of the other
hardened guys would look at them too. I am
sure. We all want to help.

[Blast_Duck]

Helpful as always Peter. Thanks.
The problem i am experiencing can not be taken a picture of..imagine this...
You sit at your twin pedal and u put your right foot on the SLAVE pedal. It feels heavier and not as responsive as the main pedal, considerably. Also you can hear some 'clackety clacking' coming from the slave and you can feel something loose coming from what seems to be the region where the linkage shaft connects with the slave axle. Im going to give it one last bench inspection and i'll let u know anything new i find.
Thanks again,
BD

[peter]

BD - Send it in for servicing. That's what I
would do. For back-up, consider some of
the other alternatives, I have brought up.

As soon as I can, I will get info out on the
Trick pedal. If we're luck, Brad will visit and
say a few more words.

[Blast_Duck]

BD - Send it in for servicing. That's what I
would do. For back-up, consider some of
the other alternatives, I have brought up.

As soon as I can, I will get info out on the
Trick pedal. If we're luck, Brad will visit and
say a few more words.

Postage to the AXIS factory would be a nightmare as im in the UK and have no backup pedals but I am reserving this as a last resort...i have just had a step forward in the problem....i have isolated the problem to the driveshaft..or at least how the drive shaft works with the slave pedal. It is certainly not the slave cam on the axle. This is however difficult as the shaft has no obvious flaws. My mother has gone to bed so i must continue my analysis tomorow. I will keep you posted.

P.S those B.O.A pedals look quite good, although it doesnt look like they do a double pedal...there would be no chance of getting to try anything other than cobras / eliminators in my area anyway. i didnt realise just how many other companies are turning to direct drive.

After inspecting the pedal I decided it is worth investigating further. Do you have the 'secret email address' for AXIS ....they clearly encourage phone/fax but again, i live in the UK and this is expensive stuff. thankyou.

[scottevtv]

If you are worried about postage pricing then the BOA's will shock you when you find out how much money they are...

[peter]

I am swamped, right now but I am going to get into
this, more in depth, with you, next time around. I will
try and get back, tonight, sometime.

Have your Allen wrenches handy.

PS: Scott is right. They want a lot for that Boa. A lot
more than promised.

[scottevtv]

Hey Peter, on your Axis pedals do you have the beater angle defaulted? How many threads are left showing on top of your spring tension?

[Blast_Duck]

Ok I sorted the clackety clacking by refixing the drive shaft with care.
This was just a quick fix but the central problem still remains.

The slave pedal is working its way downwards so that gradually im loosing leverage and the beater is struggling to make it to the head...and eventually the pedal starts hitting the clamp.
I am in the process of ordering a replacement set of screws and allen wrenches from the one UK AXIS distributor. This may take sometime......I am very annoyed...I am actually now contemplating sending them back to AXIS to sort out...i shouldnt have to be sorting out their mess.

[roxz]

Ok I sorted the clackety clacking by refixing the drive shaft with care.
This was just a quick fix but the central problem still remains.

The slave pedal is working its way downwards so that gradually im loosing leverage and the beater is struggling to make it to the head...and eventually the pedal starts hitting the clamp.
I am in the process of ordering a replacement set of screws and allen wrenches from the one UK AXIS distributor. This may take sometime......I am very annoyed...I am actually now contemplating sending them back to AXIS to sort out...i shouldnt have to be sorting out their mess.


That's exacly what you should do.

And you should get replacement pedals

[peter]

Hey Peter, on your Axis pedals do you have the beater angle defaulted? How many threads are left showing on top of your spring tension?

Beater Angle - 50 degrees
Threads - 2.5

I do not like the beater as far back as it was set,
with and for the Hammers, which I do not prefer.

[TC_Hippie]

Blast Duck... The Axis Pedals are very "fine-tune" oriented, but too much tweak will get you out of whack. I posted some pics and some generic instructions on how to set up your Axis pedals on one of your previous posts (Pedal Crisis). It may resolve some of your issues with spring tension and beater swing.

Good Luck :D

[Blast_Duck]

Ok i called AXIS and I got some useful info...it turns out the cams clamp to the main axle at a flatpoint...ie the axle has a certain point where it needs to fix to the cam.
They are going to send me any replacement parts i need free of charge and those will be determined after a detailed chat with Darrell sometime this week. I'll keep ya'll posted.

[scottevtv]

Peter, thanks.. I agree, when I replaced my Sonic Hammer beaters I moved the beater angle foward toward the head a little.. When you say 50 degrees how far away do you have your beaters in actual inches? Also how high above the center of your 22" kick do you have your beaters hitting? Mine are hitting about 1 1/4" above the center of my 22" do you think that is too low?

[roxz]

Peter, thanks.. I agree, when I replaced my Sonic Hammer beaters I moved the beater angle foward toward the head a little.. When you say 50 degrees how far away do you have your beaters in actual inches? Also how high above the center of your 22" kick do you have your beaters hitting? Mine are hitting about 1 1/4" above the center of my 22" do you think that is too low?



Shouldn't you keep doing what suits your feeling the most, instead of someone others feeling towards an axis pedal...seriously..

[Blast_Duck]

Shouldn't you keep doing what suits your feeling the most, instead of someone others feeling towards an axis pedal...seriously..

its nice to share ideas sometimes you know...
we AXIS guys like to discuss settings for experiment purposes...surely you can see that.

[peter]

Peter, thanks.. I agree, when I replaced my Sonic Hammer beaters I moved the beater angle foward toward the head a little.. When you say 50 degrees how far away do you have your beaters in actual inches? Also how high above the center of your 22" kick do you have your beaters hitting? Mine are hitting about 1 1/4" above the center of my 22" do you think that is too low?

BD - Good developments, there. Good luck!

Scott - It's about 4.5 to 5 inches.

I like to keep as close to center as possible - maybe
a half-inch over.

Of course, it's all about what feels right to you.
I always suggest trying everything until you find
what works for you.

Good luck.

[scottevtv]

Roxz you can seriously KISS MY ASS....

Peter, that is pretty much how far I have my beaters from my head also. Mine are somewhere between 4 3/4" and 5". I still have to try 4 1/2". Also are you using a 22" kick drum? Right now my Marksman beaters are hitting 1 1/4" above the center of my 22" kick and I have exactly 1" of the rod on the marksman beaters sticking out on the bottom.. If you are hitting only a 1/2" above the center then you must have at least 1 3/4" of rod sticking out on the bottom of your beater.. What beaters are you using? That seems really low.. Do you feel you loose some power having the beaters hitting that low? I need to do some more experimenting as soon as I get a chance.. Thanks.

[peter]

Roxz you can seriously KISS MY ASS....

Peter, that is pretty much how far I have my beaters from my head also. Mine are somewhere between 4 3/4" and 5". I still have to try 4 1/2". Also are you using a 22" kick drum? Right now my Marksman beaters are hitting 1 1/4" above the center of my 22" kick and I have exactly 1" of the rod on the marksman beaters sticking out on the bottom.. If you are hitting only a 1/2" above the center then you must have at least 2" of rod sticking out on the bottom of your beater.. What beaters are you using? That seems really low.. Do you feel you loose some power having the beaters hitting that low? I need to do some more experimenting as soon as I get a chance.. Thanks.

Pearl quads and I don't have much out the bottom.

[scottevtv]

If you don't have much rod sticking out on the bottom then I find it hard to believe that you are hitting only a 1/2" above the center.. Are you using a 20" kick drum?? I think I am going to buy some Slug beaters this week.. I will let you all know how I like them.

[roxz]

[QUOTE=scottevtv]Roxz you can seriously KISS MY ASS....

Hahaa :D

Maybe you could kiss peter's ass.... :cool: ;)


Soon I'll join you axis people.... They could be here anytime now :D

Guess I won't get any help from you scott... :( :D

[peter]

Scott,

For real, man. I have my e-kit set up BUT
I have a 22-inch head, right here, that I
have put up to the pedal and it's right
there. A little above center.

[scottevtv]

I believe you man but I also have a 22" kick drum.. I have a lot of rod sticking out on the bottom of my Marksman beaters (1" to be exact) and I have actually measured, my beaters are hitting exactly 1 1/4" above the center of my bass drum.. Did you actually measure and see that yours are hitting only a 1/2" above the center?.. I find it hard to picture in my minds eye that your beaters are hitting only a 1/2" above the center of your 22" and you say you only have a little bit of rod sticking out on the bottom.. That seems really hard to picture, maybe yours are hitting higher and it just looks like it is that low..

[roxz]

Well I have my axis longboards double pedal and it plays sweet!!! Those pedals are freakin' fast.

Now I can concentrate on my arms instead of my legs.

Flat-foot all the way!!!

[roxz]

Here are my settings..

Beater factory setting 45 degr.(pearl quad btrs felt side)
Spring just below medium.
VDL 3mm from top (at the head..)
Footboard hight factory sett.(no spacers)

[stabwound]

hey peter and whoever else wants to answer i have a question regarding which pedal equipment i should. please take into account the music i play, what i require and what i have.

first of all great post. great reading and good vruk info (hard to find)

i have a pearl eliminator double pedal and use quad beaters. i can play with my whole leg but havent got the hang of fast heel down (different technique). iplay heel down at the moment because i like the control i get over the pedals....problems that come with it though are enjourence and power (like using wrists with no arm). i have been thinking of getting a vruk attackment for some weeks now but want to be 100% confident im buying the write thing. however after reading your post i am realy tempted to get a axis double. i would be comitted to learn heel toe (ballistic or rocking motion) and i understand the vruk comes with a disc showing how to use the technique.

now what are the advantage between the two (remembering i would use the vruk with my elims and axis would take more time to save up for).

can you get the same results in single stroke sounding powerfull, fast and controlled double bass from each. please give me your thoughts. i also cant test either. thanx

[roxz]

You already have a good pedal , spend more time on it and give it time. An axis pedal can be a pain in the ass when you have bad foot technique. And the vruk is not really that necessary (I think).

[stabwound]

yeah but learning heel toe isnt ideal on elims....unless you use rocking motion....you cant use ballistic because of the footboard length not being long enough

[roxz]

If you got big feet than longboards could be your answer.

Try them first at a music store and make sure you set them up (beater angle etc) the way you want. A lot of drummers dont like the feel of axis pedals....

[stabwound]

i cant try them. i live in england i would have to order and buy them :mad:

[stabwound]

hey ive just bought 2 vruk attachments for my double pearl eliminators. peter i understand you own/have used one and am having some dificulties to get going with it......so youre help would be very apreciated

firstley the head of the screws that secure the vruk to a drum pedal are to short for a drumkey to fasten it (which is what is supposed to be done).

other queries are the rubber spring, most vruks dont have this on them...but the main thing i find wierd on this part is a great difficulty of taking the spring off as it isnt the easiest of tasks as the screws here dont screw in well.

i realy want to get going in practicing with it but cannot if i cant attach it properley......also any practice routine or any other advice for this attachment would be great

thanx

[peter]

Where did you get these? Those screws should
be made for the drum key.

My VRUK's have the rubber. You need that for a
comfortable heel movement.

Perhaps if you can take a picture of them and let
me see what you're up against. Perhaps you have
older ones. I can't be sure.

[stabwound]

i got these new from ebay and it said they were vruk concordes (which i have no reason to say they are not). it came with the technique disc as well.
right........
http://tinypic.com/i3g9wl.jpg
here is a picture of two different screws and a drum key.......the left a normal screw for a snare i no longer use and the right the vruk fastening screw. as you can see the vruk screw head is no way big enough for the drum key to do its job (plz correct me if im wrong)

http://tinypic.com/i3ga4m.jpg
http://tinypic.com/i3gaix.jpg
http://tinypic.com/i3gaox.jpg
http://tinypic.com/i3gayq.jpg
http://tinypic.com/i3gb46.jpg
these are a couple of picks of the attachments themselves.....is this (apart from the fastening of the screws to the footboard correct? one thing i dont get with mine is the fact i saw a tim waterson video of vruk (i can no longer find) and it showed him pushing down on the vruk with his finger and the better looked to be in perfect response like you would get with a footboard. does this only happen when clamped on securley? the second pedal motion down from this page:
http://www.vrukpedal.com/vruktechnique.htm
also shows what i mean by the heel board being an actual sensitive heel board which the beater responds to. mine just isnt doing this and is very fustrating getting it started and am not sure even if it can secure to the footboard if it will have a heel reponse as it says it should.

does it also matter which of the three screw holls on each side you use? i cannot use one of the middle screw holes as it wont screw in properly. jesus i realy didnt think i would have so much trouble just getting the thing to work! do i have to get extra parts to make it work....i just dont know

as i said i just want to get practicing real bad and get to grips with this technique.

thanks again

[peter]

SW,

First, I am not sure about those screws. I do not
have those. Also, the upper portion of the attachment
differs from mine, looking more like the illustration at
the VRUK site.

Second, realize that this is a whole new ballgame and
you have to patient, with any results you might get.

I would try pulling the attachment back (down) on the
footboards. It looks to me that you are too far up, on
the footboard. Experiment with this.

It might just be a simple adjustment like this that makes
the difference.

[stabwound]

usa version is red and uk and europe is black (as shown on the vruk europe part website vrukpedal.com

are your screw heads the same size as drum lug screw heads (shown I my pic of a drum key, vruk screw and drum lug screw).

does your vruk feel like a heelboard in response to heel up and down movement (shown on website)......does it differ in feel when only finger tight and slipping?

i cant start to use this if i cant set it up sequrely to the pedal.....i think the screws are the only problem but i cant be shure

which sets of holes do you use securing it (does it matter) inside pair, centre pair or outside pair?

do i need replacement screws and if so where do i get them?

[peter]

SW,

My screws are longer lug screws that go into
a plate, underneath the footboard, squeezing
the footboard between the attachment and plate.

I think it will be hard getting replacements but
you might as well e-mail Vuk and see if he will
help OR go to the hardware store and have
some lug screws cut to size, if they fit the
thread. That might work.

The attachment has to be very tightly secured
for you to be able to use it.

I use the outside holes, so as not to damage the
footboard in any way. I also powerdrilled the
screws tight. Keep a cordless by the kit.

[stabwound]

hey peter
i got another drum key and it seems to work and has attached the screws on (i donno why the pearl keys didnt work but whatever).

the thing im 100% sure about still is the feel of the vruk attachment heel board......on the examples i seen it seems realy sensitive and acting like a board and mine is but....emmm i mean on yours do you have to push it until the point of the spring colapsing for it to move the beater.....i donno maybe its just me and i have hardley used it so i cant judge it at all.....its great being able to start on it not though. i have learnt to do simple doubles on it with each foot (but not continuous). just real simple stuff like two doubles on each foot together for the bit in the song hourglass.

hey peter....what are you supposed to play do vruk/ heel toe in a solid single stroke sound. is it doubles with each foot (rh,rt,lh,lt etc) or (rh,lh,rt,lt etc)

i also feel more comforatable leading with my left but am right footed so i donno if that would be a bad habbit not leading with my right.

thanks for your replys by the way.....hey what do you think of vruk...is it a good tool in your experience and how do you use it?

any advice to starting would be great....cheers

[peter]

Stab,

I liked it, at first but as I am primarily a heel-down
player, I did respond to it like most heel-up players
seem to. At this time, I do not use them. I have
Axis-A's and am very happy, with them.

I also have Eliminators and I am happy with them
too. They feel the best, with Axis A's, in my opinion.

Tim is a great resource on these attachments too.
Perhaps he'll chime in.

On the heel portion of the attachment, you really
need that 'spring' of the rubber, I think.

[stabwound]

i play mostley heel down as well, i find however that power, enjourence and consistency with the music i play (heavy/death metal) is absolutely esential. and heel down for me isnt the ideal solution. i will stil go back to play heel down but i need another technique and i think the vruk is just that. the axis a for me are too expensive and i cant test them or buy them in this country (if i can its online only).

as for the rubber spring it is esential as without it the vruk would'nt work properly but i mean the vruk grip pad for the toe i got. but ill experiment with settings to see which suits me better.

thanks so much for your replys and good luck in the future

[peter]

Well, then you will have to investigate it, more.

I would look at getting Tim's DVD to get his perspective.

[VoodooDrummer]

Peter could you post a picture of the spacers installed?
Thx
Bill

Tommy,

I just installed the spacers.

YOU HAVE TO GET THEM! Put
three of them on (the max) and
it's just a world of a difference!

[peter]

Here's a photo:

http://www.thediametrixletter.com/013850.jpg

[VoodooDrummer]

Are they round, or square?

[peter]

Sort of rectangular, Voo. The dimensions are
somewhere in this thread or another one around
here. Type Spacers into the SEARCH.

[peter]

Just got my pedals back from Darryl. He
made an angle adjustment on the beater.
I duped it, on the other. I like it.

I can't wait for the Uni-Clamp.

[STAVROPOULOS]

peter could you please tell me what the Uni-clamp is?Unfortunately i haven't bought the pedals yet,but i think that by the end of the month i'll have em,so is this a feature that will be developed on a forthcoming new series of the Axis pedals?I mean shall i wait for it?
Sorry if this sounds like a silly question,but the Greeks do not name the parts on the drums the same like Americans do!:D
Thanks!

[peter]

The Uni-Clamp is used to change the
beater angle on the side of axle-rod.

Right now, the Axis pedals are clamped
down, using Allen-screws.

The uni-Clamp design is found on other
pedals, like the Yamaha and Pearl. With
the simple turn of a drumkey, they come
loose and it's easy to change the angle
and there are more options.

The Axis are harder to change because
of that design. Not horrible but I just
think it's a better design to go with the
Uni's, allowing for the quickest change.

Look at this image:

http://thediametrixletter.com/EliminatorInfo.jpg

It's on the left of the axle, depicted here.
I am sure you have seen them before.
They call it the Uni-Pressure Spring
Clamp. Yamaha also uses it. It is super-
ior, for certain.

[Tommy G.]

Peter,
how are you? It's been a long time since I posted something.
i was just wondering what you heard from axis regarding that uniclamp? as in WHEN!!!
my machine shop guy made some nice modifications to my longboard hihat and he's coming over next week because i have a few ideas about the bass pedals as well. the uniclamp is at the top of my list. i'm sure he can make me a couple.


by the way, i just purchased 2 of the gibraltar old style felt (actually danmar) beaters last week and i am loving them! the weight distribution seems to be just right for regular playing and fast heel/toe doubles - not to mention the bass drums sound a little warmer. no more pearl quads.

[peter]

Hey, Tommy! Nice to see you, again!!

Listen! I am interested in that Uni-Clamp,
if he comes up with them first.

Darryl was not specific as to when but
hinted that it was in the nearer future.

Keep me up on that.

Also, if you can, post pix of the Gibraltor
beaters you found.

Great, seeing you!

:)

[filus]

I'd just like to thank u guys everyone for the support and the precious help you've given me in these days. I've read what you've posted silentiously and now I decided to get into the discussion and give some opinions.

I decided to change my Eliminator before reading this 3d, but when I've tried to setup my twin as tommy suggested, my mind has changed. I discovered the preciousness and the versatility of Pearl 4beater (I was stopped on the felt side - never tried the plastic one, which I've choosen now!) and just playing on footboard angle and beater distance, I've realized I'm much more faster than I thought before knowing u guys.

So thank you very much!!!

Now there's a big fight in my mind...Axis versus Eliminator (versus DW 9000?)
who's going to win??

PS: I hope my english is good enough.

c u!

[schneider325]

Hey evevery one

I just got a set of used Axis-A double pedals (non longboard) and I have a few questions!

First, I like having a tight spring tention but with the tention high the beaters are too far away from the drum head and there seems like no way to adjust the beater distance. Is the only solution getting hammer beaters?

Also, For all you player that play fast (200+bpm) on your axis pedals, do you sit high or low? Right now my throne only goes to about 20" off the ground. Other thrones can go up to 27". Should I bother getting a new throne to see if it helps my playing?


thanks
Jon

edit: Also I'm trying to learn about "triggers" and how they work. They have special ones for the axis pedals that look to be tones better. So do you hook up the triggers to a speaker or what? How does it amplify the sound?

Also how much does it cost for the long board kit.. is it worth it over the regular set? And how much does a trigger kit cost?

Thanks
Jon

[peter]

Hey evevery one

I just got a set of used Axis-A double pedals (non longboard) and I have a few questions!

First, I like having a tight spring tention but with the tention high the beaters are too far away from the drum head and there seems like no way to adjust the beater distance. Is the only solution getting hammer beaters?

Also, For all you player that play fast (200+bpm) on your axis pedals, do you sit high or low? Right now my throne only goes to about 20" off the ground. Other thrones can go up to 27". Should I bother getting a new throne to see if it helps my playing?


thanks
Jon

edit: Also I'm trying to learn about "triggers" and how they work. They have special ones for the axis pedals that look to be tones better. So do you hook up the triggers to a speaker or what? How does it amplify the sound?

Also how much does it cost for the long board kit.. is it worth it over the regular set? And how much does a trigger kit cost?

Thanks
Jon

Jon,

Using an Allen (hex) wrench, you can
change the beater distance. If you are
going to use tighter spring settings, that
is what I would suggest.

As for doubles, I do them low and high.
You will get the best doubles, with the
VDL set all the way down, or towards
you. Good luck!

Regards,


Pete

[schneider325]

thanks

I ordered 6 toe risers today. Hopfully that will make a nice difference too

does anyone have a good explination on triggers? I've done my research and havn't found much

[hcantu]

Hi, I am Hector from Mexico........I read all the posts in this thread, and I am surprised of all the research done by Peter and Tommy.

At this time, I am planning to buy either the The Axis A Longboards or the Eliminators. I already read all the posts and I did not get to any conclusion except that the Eliminators are the best for the money, and the Axis have the VDL.

I just want to ask this to Peter or Tommy (because of their experience) or anyone.........Is it worth to spend $200 extra on the Axis A longboards double pedal over the Eliminator double pedal?

Also, how about the Pacific BOA pedal?

Last, where can I order those toe spacer for the pedals?

Thanks for the time.

[creepingsandman]

i never knew how popular drum pedals were

[peter]

Hector,

You can order that direct from Axis.

http://www.axispercussion.com/

As for the Axis versus Pearl. Money
is the big factor.

BOA's are just as expensive, so you
should consider the same for them.
BOA's have the equivalent of a VDL.
They may be an excellent alternative
for players that don't need the long-
board and that want a simple design.

I HAVE NOT RECEIVED MINE YET.
WAIT FOR MY REVIEW, IF YOU CAN.

[hcantu]

So you already ordered the BOAs?
Damn, you must have a lot of money hehehehehe........well, again with the Axis vs Pearl, for double bass drumming, do you think the $200 extra on the axis is worthy?

If it was you? If you had to decide between an Axis A long board double pedal and an Eliminator double pedal, what would you do?

Thanks Peter.

[peter]

Money is a factor, Hector. I can't make
the decision for you. Every drummer has
his own special needs.

I believe the longboard gives one a better
sweet-spot feel for doubles and also the
ability/option to use your heel. Shorter
footboards do not afford this.

The choice between the two, if it has not
to do with money, has to be Axis-A Long-
boards. They have to be the Longboards
and NOT the X's.

My opinion.

Regards,


Pete

[creepingsandman]

longboards good
x's bad

[scottevtv]

The X line is great what are you talking about..

[scottevtv]

All Axis pedals can come with Longboards.. It has nothing to do with an A or X model.. Both of my A and X doubles have the Longboards on them. I like both modles. Some days I like the A the best and some days I like the X line the best. They both have a very different feel to them. If you like a higher footboard then the X line might be better for you.

[peter]

The reason I prefer the A's to the
X's has to do with the VDL (Variable
Drive Lever), which is the Universal
Cam Design. I believe you must have
this to have the kind of options that
will allow you to really explore your
kicking - single or double.

The X's are a fine pedal. The A's are
a finer pedal. My opinion.

[scottevtv]

What you say is true.. The funny thing is though, no matter where I slide the VDL on my A Longboards I can never get the exact feel that I do on my X Longboards. They are both great pedals. Even Axis says that the sweet spot on the A line is just before the beater strikes the head and on the X line it is at the exact same moment that the beater strikes the head. A lot of people such as myself actually like the feel of the X line. I have tried to get that "feel" from my A's and It just can't be done. Again, they are both great pedals. The action and feel is different for both. I can still do doubles on my X longboards just as easy..

[peter]

Awesome, Scott!

Listen, I am not trying to tell anyone
their business. Pedals are very personal.

They're kind of like girls. :)

[creepingsandman]

The X line is great what are you talking about..

ha ha i made a funny :D

[creepingsandman]

allow me to explain.. the guy before me posted a long... post that was long and througho about how great the longboards were.. since i have little knowledge about bass drum pedals so i just decided to take up a new saying "xs bad long good" i really have nothing against either of them its just that this thread was getting too serious for me so i had to lighten it up

[scottevtv]

Right, thanks..

[creepingsandman]

your welcome...

[STAVROPOULOS]

hey guys there won't be any Uni clamp!Darryl told me that.Sorry i post so sparse,but my internet connection has some problems!

[peter]

Stav,

That really sucks. Why? Did he say?

A lot of us were waiting on this. :(

Pete

[creepingsandman]

hey guys there won't be any Uni clamp!Darryl told me that.Sorry i post so sparse,but my internet connection has some problems!
no no no no no this can't be happening
:(

[peter]

I sent him an e-mail.

He's gotta' do it. :(

Write him, guys. We have
to have this!

[hemi]

It's true Peter, I emailed him not long ago and no dice!! I bought a new Mapex Saturn kit and didn't want to use the axis pedals because of this, I did however :) because Im addicted to the darn things and can't live without them :( I ended up using hoop protectors doubled up for a piece of mind however.. Arrrrrrrrrg. Best pedal on the market, but has the worst clamp on the market, just don't make any sense..

[peter]

It's true that the VDL winds up
being the most adjusted option
but it's a no-brainer to go 'uni'.

I hope he realizes this.

[Blast_Duck]

Is the Clamp on the Iron Cobra pedals patented? I set my friends pedals up for him and it was soooo much less hassle than my Axis pedals. However Axis are superior in almost every other way (its taken me a long while to realise this).

Any improvements made to the Axis pedals should be 'ease of use' related. for example the clamp or the adjacent springs. Spring tension adjustment would make my fingers bleed if i didnt have calusses from playing guitar. Also the allen screw adjustments are a bit fragile. perhaps make the screws deeper or something along those lines.

P.S hello again Peter, how are things?

[STAVROPOULOS]

Hello friends!

Well,i had just asked him about that telling him that a friend of mine,Peter Corona has told us something about a forthcoming ''Uni Clamp'' and he replied:
''No,no,that's some rumour that's been spread....''and the other thing i didn't catch!(sorry,damn phones!)But Peter,when i pronounced your name he was like''Wah!Yeah Peter,i know!''You must have talked with him a lot!:D

Anyway,Blast Duck i agree with your points man!

Can anyone answer this to me:HOW CAN THE AXLE RODS OF THE PEDALS BE BENT?????????
Peter,do u remember the problems i was having with the sounds?It turned out that on my left pedal the axle bent!If u listen to a sound as if something is cracking around the area of the number one piece,then...PLUS,this is starting to happen to my right pedal...
Hmmmm...Eliminators anyone....?I won't say Trick because those things seem a little fragile to me!But i hope that i will stay with AXIS!Mrs Karen helped me a great deal and sent me replacement parts,but i'm afraid i will call again for parts once again in the near future!Damn!

[Blast_Duck]

I feel your pain Stavro...

I am from the UK where Axis have about as much presence as a camofluaged mouse.
Replacement parts is obviously slightly tricky business in regards to this. Furthermore, US allen sizes are entirely different to UK sizes...I can envisage this becoming an issue in the near future.

[STAVROPOULOS]

Yeah man,it's just the thing that those of us who don't live in the U.S.have a hard time in case something's wrong!I was talking again with mr.Darryl yesterday and hopefully i'll fix it today!

Why do the wrenches in the U.K.differ from those in the States?I mean,every person who buys the pedals is equipped with the same wrenches,right?Or you mean that if someone for some reason losts a wrench that was coming along with the pedals,then it'll be difficult to find one similar?

[peter]

Stav,

Let's talk, man. I am just reading this and
I want to help. I will get a chance to work
on this thread, tomorrow.

I will be back.

Oh, hi, BD! I echo you! We'll talk.

PS: I am starting to think that we need to
start a petition for changes to the Axis-A.

[peter]

Stav,

On the axle-rods - I am not sure how those
would get bent. If you were here, you could
send them to Darryl and he'd recondition them
for you but I do not know what he'd do, with
that distance you have from him/them.

It's the one thing about Axis pedals. When you
live overseas, it is really tough to take care of
situations that may come up. They are special
pieces of hardware.

I have done my very best, over the years, to
promote them, loving their design but am also
very aware of their shortcomings and empath-
ize with players, who use them on the road
and in musical situations, which are demanding
of their 'mobility'.

The truth is that some type of uni-clamp de-
sign has become standard and that Darryl does
not see the application of it surprises me. If
you want to adjust the beater-angle of the
pedal, you have to use a clumsy Allen wrench,
which is not on a single key, designed for the
pedal. Note - With the Boa Pedal that I am
presently experimenting with, it comes with
such a key, making it easier to work with.

I can only hope that Darryl reconsiders and
please, other users of the Axis pedals, let
Darryl know your thoughts about this. It's
something he just has to get with, as the
competitors are coming out with more and
more direct-drive alternatives that might
rival or even take away the market from
Darryl and Axis, in the future.

PS: Talked to Gene at Pearl and they are
still biting at the possibility of direct-drive
in the future. Let's keep our fingers crossed,
as Pearl has always been innovative.

[Footsoldier88]

I hope Pearl does a direct drive. I love their Eliminator pedals and easy set-up. Plus their warranties saved me a lot of money cause I go through their pedals like protein. I noticed they have improved their base plate designs through the years - man i remember those days of shaky base plates and pins coming out of the sides.. Now if they can only do something about their shafts and chains, then they would be golden indeed.

[percusski]

I have been using the Longboard A double pedal for about 3 years now and recently picked up a Sonor GS double, I must admit that right now the GS feels so much better, so smooth and responsive, it just seems that much easier to get ideas out, the Longboards always felt like I was working against them.
I was using the Hammer beaters so switched them with the GS beaters and added risers and there was an improvement, a lighter more responsive feel but they still did not match the GS pedals. The other nice thing about the GS pedals is that the beaters are either side of the chain cam which means you get a more even sound from the bass drum, rather than two slightly different tones one beater hitting dead centre and the other off set.
I may continue experimenting with the Axis but I could be chasing my tail, maybe sell them and get a second set of GS pedals.

[peter]

Had you always used the Hammers, with
the Axis, Percusski? I never liked them. It
was the quads that I loved on the Axis.

Could you perhaps talk a little more about
your Sonor pedals; perhaps even start a
thread about them, posting pictures etc?

I would like a real detailed comparison and
discussion about it, here or even in another
thread, where we can see what and perhaps
even why what you say might be true.

Thanks.

[percusski]

OK Peter i'll have a look into it. I used the Hammers from day one as the adjustability was useful but in retrospect they are too bulky and heavy. I have adjusted the pedals all over the place over the years and although I can play ideas it has never felt easy, on the GS pedals everything seems easy. My students have been concurring that the GS pedals are very easy to play and deliver a powerful stroke. I posted something before about it being difficult for heel down technique players to to get a powerful stroke with the Axis and the recent change to the GS has highlighted this (I get all new students to play heel down initially to develop power).
I'll try to get some pics up of the GS so they can be analysed.

[peter]

Cool, Percusski.

I know what you mean about the Hammers.
WAY TOO heavy. The Quads are perfect.

I am anxious to see the photos and apprec-
iate your time and efforts on this.

[hemi]

Check out the Gibralter wooden beaters with the grove side for locking. Man can I fly with these on the Axis pedals. And they thump.. Light isn't the word, weightless is more like it :) You know me Peter, always looking for something to improve speed. They make danmars wooden beaters feel like a log :D

[hemi]

And as for Axis pedals. I agree Peter, competition is getting very stiff out there. It's just a matter of time before I make the switch to the next brand that makes the longboard version direct drive. I hope it's Trick that does it. Then the game is all over for axis and I. I refuse to support anyone who refuses to improve on their product. And the Axis a's need MUCH improving

[peter]

We'll see what happens. I am a very loyal
person, in essence. I love to support good
products and even more, the people behind
them. At the same time, I like to see people
stand behind their products, with the mind
to evolve for needs, which surface anew.

I don't think it's asking for the moon, to go
with a uni-clamp design, which will allow a
great range of setup for the Axis-A.

I still love the pedal and the longboard design
is the top and really, I just can't figure why
no one else is doing it. Nuts.

Who knows? Maybe someone will wake up.

[Fiery]

I know what you mean about the Hammers.
WAY TOO heavy.
Have you heard of "Iron Hammers"?

The idea is to take two IC beaters, rotate the head all the way up, cut down the shaft and replace the top half of the Hammers with the IC beaters. The result - a lighter beater, and easier to adjust.

[Matematika]

please can you help me...

what model is this pedal

http://www.glazbeni-forum.com/oglasi/data/42/large/Picture_0056.jpg

what is its age... tell me about everything about it that you know... maybe i will buy it... but what is difference between these pedal and the newer axis pedals...

[peter]

Hi, Mate.

I wish I could see it more close up.
I think they are Axis-X's.

I prefer the A's because of the VDL
(Variable-Drive-Lever). This is the
Universal Cam Adjustment (er).

Incidentally, I just received my re-
placement spring-assembly attach-
ment from Axis and it's working very
well. Still a great pedal.

Regards,

Pete

PS: Incidentally, my favorite beaters
are, now, the Trick Detonators. I will be
updating that thread, too, soon, as
I have had my single modified into
a Bigfoot or Longboard.

[peter]

Oh, these have the Hammers:

http://tinyurl.com/2gu44t

I have them. VERY heavy, for me.

[Steve1]

Man you know a good bit about pedal mechanics, that's really handy info to know. Still haven't gotten that damn spring!!

[peter]

Man you know a good bit about pedal mechanics, that's really handy info to know. Still haven't gotten that damn spring!!

Steve,

It's just my opinion, everything
that I present, here. Through trial
and error, I test and see what works
for me and I have an idea of why it
works and this is something that I
know look for in every pedal that I
try and right now, the best pedals
on the market, as I see it, are the
Trick, Boa and Axis pedals.

The reason I say this has to do
with the Cam-designs.

The idea, as I see it, is to get that
beater to snap back as quickly as
possible but without having re-
quired as much of a stroke.

Anyway, if you can't get the spring
from them, let me know. I might
have a spare you can get.

Best of luck.


Pete

[alencore]

so great to see this thread after almsot 5 years is still up.

[peter]

I am putting my Axis-A Twins back
together, again, over the weekend,
when I get back from the east coast.

They still are arguably the smoothest
pedals out there.

If you have not tried it - pull your
beater up to 40-degrees, pulling the
VDL all the way back towards you
and see the action. It is heaven.

I am hopeful that Axis will see the
inevitable truth, that the Uni-Clamp
has become a standard in beater-
angle adjustment and that they'll
come out with a retro-fit for all
of us, this new year.

:D

Regards,


Pete

[alencore]

nice............................

[rico horton]

i had a vruk and didn't like it and sold it. just another contraption. not needed to play double kick stroke. Axis is ok but i'll stick with my Trick big foot.

[D. Slam]

I just bought a Boa.... The best pedal I've ever used hands down. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall a major feature about this pedal ever being brought up and that is it has NO springs! It works off of the diving board concept. It's super smooth, stealthy quiet and very quick. What's really great about this pedal is when you buy the double pedal setup, you automatically get two singles out of the deal as well. Just place one of the beaters on the slave pedal which is virtually identical to the main pedal and you're good to go. There are tons of adjustments on this thing and they are all fairly easy to manipulate. I have an Axis Long board Double pedal and I love it! I gotta say though that the Boa has it beat and is really just an all around better pedal, long board or not!

The bad news is that they are currently out of production at this point and time. The store I was at (while attending Virgil's clinic in S.F.) just happened to have one and after checking it out I knew I had to have it. I've used it as a double setup and am currently using it on my double bass kit. Either way, it's awesome. And the real kicker, I paid $330.00 for it. I really like the way you can "FEEL" this unit. It doesn't just fall into the head as you have total control over the entire stroke.

My concern at this point is durability... And no, I have not had any problems as of yet but the spring-less boards scare me a little because if and when the integrity in the springy tension goes, it means having to get a whole new board... But so far, so good... Knock, knock.

Check out this instructional video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qots2N8F0sE

[Vogyengemolla]

order levitra levitra online (http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/search/) of24x cialis online order cialis (http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/rfcj/) ao6y order viagra viagra no prescription (http://www.cyber-kitchen.com) gw3d cialis usa cialis online (http://univ-prog.disl.org/) ro87k

[Vogyengemolla]

levitra online buy levitra (http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/search/) zs17j order cialis order cialis (http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/rfcj/) mw7j viagra online viagra online (http://www.cyber-kitchen.com) hn0x cialis usa cialis (http://univ-prog.disl.org/) mh43x