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View Full Version : Anyone else own Virgil's MD '96 vid?


DoubleBass_Rob
05-17-2003, 06:14 AM
I got my hands on this video last week, and wow. Was there a point where Virgil WASN'T this friggin good? But it's hard watching those times he drops the stick.....but otherwise he blows everyone out of the water! You can see how much he's changed in terms of his playing. You can see on TUDW how his solos are much more based on musicality, with his independence.

jimi
05-18-2003, 03:45 AM
My copy should arrive any day now. The way everyone talks about this vid it sounds like it should have been the first vid i got! have you seen 'Obsessive Rhythms' at all?

DeepThought
05-18-2003, 03:48 PM
i have it as well, and I think the stick drops only show how full out he plays, hes not holding anything back at all! I did notice his playing during the solo i saw at my PX show was much better. Plus, he has to reeeeally try to do Dog Boots speed doubles on the video... now look at him!

The video kicks my tail every time I watch it.

You're gonna love it Jimi!

kirk
05-18-2003, 10:11 PM
If you compare MD to say TUDW or his soloing on the last couple tours, you will see that on MD he is playing alot of fast singles and alot of CRAZY crossovers, some cool incorporation of flams and doubles and alot of showy stuff. It is an awesome display of speed, precision, dexterity, power, but he does not dive into the REAL complex interdependence grooves that even back then he was into. Of course the stuff he pulls off is still ridiculous in fact. You can go back to Stretch(95) and hear that he was doing some real outrageous stuff based on ostinatos and the literal four way interdependence grooves and on both concepts soloing over them. Heck back on the Power Drumming video he is playing doubles at 180 and soloing over that with the hands in a way that I doubt any of us can pull off with just our hands alone.
Virgil has always stated that most of what he does is off the cuff, of course based on what he has been working on and can pull off, but it is spontaneous when he hits the stage so you never know what you might get. At PASIC 98 I saw him play some outrageously complex groove patterns between just the bass drum, hat, snare and left floor tom that was absurd but have yet to really see him do much of the same thing again and I guess that is great, the man has a tremendous well of creativity and chops.

Regards Kirk

jimi
05-29-2003, 11:46 AM
The name Virgil Donati means something a lot different to me than it probably did to people in '97. Got the vid today and found it difficult to adjust back to Virg 6 years of practice from today. (does that make sense?) It's his drumming alright but without the absolute mastermind behind it that is today.
Don't get me wrong, i enjoyed it very much and found it informing, it's just obviously a big step back from TUDW, CAB and PX.
What do you think?

DeepThought
05-29-2003, 02:25 PM
I agree, jimi... most obvious is the way he can just barely do doubles at 200bpm (Dog Boots speed). And now he did it at many many live shows for the 4 min of Dog Boots! :)

jimi
05-29-2003, 03:02 PM
@deepthought: I wonder what his limit is now!

On the tape it showed that Horatio Hernandez guy, i've heard he's got good independence, does anyone have that vid?

kirk
05-29-2003, 03:15 PM
I have to say that even to this day, it is not Virgil's feet that blow my mind. YES he has the best feet(all around) in the business and they are truly amazing. But looking even back at 97 and even beyond," I started listening to him in 95" it was the whole package so to speak that GOT me. Amazing musical imagination with taste, blinding speed and precision(beyond single strokes on the toms)utilizing the whole kit, tremendous power and energy(passion), excellent sense of time, amazing polyrhythmic concepts and his dexterity is outrageous.

I think his dexterity on the MD 97 tape is what really got me. His hands and arms are as developed as his feet. He can cover ground around the kit and pull off amazing licks with one hand where as it would take 2 or 3 hands(hah hah) for us to do the same thing. You watch some of the fills in slow motion and you will see him utilize 3 or 4 toms and 2 to 3 cymbals( within his phrasing pattern) in one motion with one hand. One guy said it best a few years back to me at a show. He said Virgil's control over the beast(the kit) is outrageous, he does pretty much anything his twisted mind wants to. I will say it again his phrasing is from another planet, it takes amazing dexterity, precision and a wonderful imagination to pull it off.

Again I think the 97 tape does not show "enough" of the amazing four way interdependence that he has had for A LONG time, but it is still a brilliant performance. And you can go back to the Power Drumming video and it is shocking how good he was back then even, VERY few were as good even then.

Regards Kirk

DoubleBass_Rob
05-30-2003, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by jimi

On the tape it showed that Horatio Hernandez guy, i've heard he's got good independence, does anyone have that vid?

He's freakish, he'll have cool latin ostenato on one foot, on the foot operated cowbell, and does an insane solo over the top, it's mind blowing.

jimi
05-31-2003, 02:23 AM
Interesting, i think we should make a top 10 of drum videos every drummer NEEDS to have/see! Any bids?

kyrah
05-31-2003, 04:59 AM
yes - that's a very good idea! Finding a useful present for the drummer would become a lot easier that way. Last year, I made a calendar with pics of her favourite drummers in it - of course, with a nice foto of Virgil Donati for december... saving the best for last ;) - but with a top 10 of drum videos, I would have presents to choose from for years to come ;)
sure hope all you drummers here will join in...

kirk
05-31-2003, 12:50 PM
In actual "nuts and bolts" terms what you hear are just(or can be) hi-hat patterns interpreted through the wood block with the left foot, things you can play with the basic hi-hat but using the wood block or bell to get a different sound, as far as complexity no more difficult than what you would play normally. I have never been too impressed with it overall. The level of interdependence it takes is not that advanced. It is far more difficult to set up patterns with 2 feet and solo over it or even more advanced setting up 2 individual patterns, one to each foot as you see Virgil doing on TUDW. You also see Virgil setting up some challenging patterns with his left hi-hat and soloing over, which actually I like the sound as much if not more than the wood block.

I saw Horacio and Robby Ameen at PASIC and they were wonderful trading with eachother it was really burning, good stuff.

jimi
06-01-2003, 03:23 AM
@kyrah: were you in the January pic?? :-)

This top 10 is gona start debates i'd say because it based on interest, i read a thread that kirk and other 'House of drumming' members started and people were accusing Virg of having a lack in musicality. Of just artificially inserting his latest drum exercise into a song and various other stupid comments. kirk should have said if a guitarist comes up with a lick or riff and makes a song with it, whats wrong with that?? there are such things as drum licks/grooves.
Anyways, was way off the point there but just had to mention it.
Ok, virg, colaiuta, weckl, portnoy, gadd, lang, minnemann, chambers, mangini. some drummers i like the sound of.
Where shall we go?
1. basic technique: portnoy, virg and weckl have a few.
power drumming
the next step, obsessive rhythms (haven't seen those two)
back to basics
progressive drum concepts

please add more!

2. intermediate and advanced - you guys make a list!
maybe 'the next step' -weckl should have been here
virg's TUDW workshop
Liquid drum theater

what about lang's vids etc.?

3.this section will be just plain unadulterated drumming fun!!

from Hardcore mindbending virg TUDW soloing to plain weckl/colaiuta/gadd buddy rich memorial drum fun.

Now everyone, please make a contribution! :-)

kirk
06-01-2003, 09:38 AM
Jimi that is funny that you read that post. Of course it was being perpetuated by guys who have a problem overall with really
"EXTREME" drummers basically if music or a song is REALLY complex and challenging, then there is NO WAY it can be done tastefully which is a key to musicality along with creativity and time,etc. Some guys HATE technique and a display of it alot of times, I honestly believe many times it just ticks them off that someone is that GOOD! Virgil dispalys great taste and wonderful dynamics in his playing especially Moonbabies and with CAB for an example.

And the whole idea that you cannot base a song around a new,fresh, amazingly innovative rhythm is CRAP! Simple or complex has nothing to do with it. It again comes down to inflection of taste, time, dynamics, feel, creativity being keys not whether something is complex or simple, there is alot of "SIMPLE" drumming that STINKS, point made. Oh well guess I should stop.

There are some great video's, dvd's to watch. I do not know about top ten. Of course Virgil's , Steve smith's are good, Dave Weckl's, Langs will be good, got to go will be back.

Regards Kirk

Steve Holmes
06-01-2003, 11:46 AM
There is a lesser known video that's hard to get. It's "The return of the Brecker Brothers, Live in Barcelona". It has Dennis and the productio is top notch. I don't think it's on DVD (none of the older GRP stuff is). If you see this online or used pick it up.
Michael Brecker alone makes it worth it.

jimi
06-01-2003, 01:27 PM
The Magical Steve Holmes!! I was hoping your vid would come out on DVD but i ended up getting an NTSC/PAL VCR so i'll be ordering your vid, jarzombeks and obsessive rhythms with my next paycheque!! i'll keep an eye out for that DVD you mentioned, thanks.

@kirk: kind of strange people would think that way, i only got my first kit last october but it doesn't mean i hate to see good drummers, i think i like watching good drummers play just as much as playing. well, everyone's different i suppose. i take it you downloaded the lessons and that new solo Steve put up on his site? I love the way the solo has that kind of 'ghost' snare roll underneath (if you catch my drift!). Virg does the same and i really like that style.

kirk
06-01-2003, 03:05 PM
Hey Jimi I did check out Steve's vid it was VERY good, I gave some kudos to him for it. I definitely heard some Virgil inflections in there along with Vinnie and Dave. Virgil has one of the best double strokes around and the way he creatively phrases with it and I heard that in Steve's solo. Steve has definitely been working on his double pedal application, sounded good. Again Steve Great! playing if you read this.

And Yes it is WEIRD that some guys just like to be critical simply because they get their socks knocked off and have a hard time having the guts to say hey this GUY! can play! and maybe I can learn from him, it is easier to nit pick and be negative. Same thing has happened to Weckl and others at times they are so good it drives some people nuts. Fuse1 another great guy from HOD and Audiphile wrote a great summary on this very thing, it is older but you should read it some time.

Take it easy, regards Kirk

kyrah
06-01-2003, 03:36 PM
@jimi: well, it was a drummers-only-calendar... and the "january man" was neal peart - but thanks for asking anyway :)

@kirk: those people must be very frustrated - being negative is so much easier than being a real good drummer like e.g. Virgil Donati. And, of course, they are saving a lot of time... 2min. frustration versus 20 years of practising...

jimi
06-02-2003, 02:16 AM
@kyrah: another case of name+stereotypical assumptions, sorry, you're not the first if you remember jemmy on the PX board. :rolleyes:

jemmy
06-02-2003, 02:54 AM
@jimi: You rang? :-)

jimi
06-04-2003, 12:51 AM
ya, but i got the answering machine :-)

Me.2
06-09-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by jimi


On the tape it showed that Horatio Hernandez guy, i've heard he's got good independence, does anyone have that vid?
That Hernandez video is being re-released on dvd by Hudson music Jimi. Part of it is also on the 2000 MD festival dvd which is also Great. Horatio....is one of the most Musical people i've seen play. Incredible player and as Humble as they come.

Weckl's Next step has also just been re-released onto dvd with an extra track from the Latin vid(s) he made with Alfredo reyes.

jimi
06-09-2003, 02:40 PM
I think i'm a bit too hooked on Virg for the mo. I do listen to other drummers but i'm not in a discovering new drummers mood for the time being. I love discovering the thought behind Virg's grooves, although people might match some of his technical capabilities, who thinks as well on the drums as Virg and who would come close to even having both??
get back to me when the cows come home, pigs can fly, and the fat lady slims! :D

jimi
06-14-2003, 11:27 AM
Has anyone noticed that in the MD vid Virg's feet seem to be all over the pedals when he is playing and when you watch TUDW his feet are so controlled and practically stay on the one spot of the pedal.

Also i wonder what happened to the overhead camera in TUDW because it disappears after the first section of the solo (in between 1st & 2nd interview parts)

jonberg
06-15-2003, 11:15 AM
Just to say my opinion on what Jimi and Kirk found out on the HOD message board.

The thing about Virgil being unmusical because of him doing songs based on drumgrooves etc. are so wrong.

I think anyone who plays an instrument could learn something from Virgils writing, I havenīt heard anything like it, his ideas are really fresh and original. Take just Alien Hip Hop, Pyramids on mars, Dog Boots (I think the song is genius, my all time favorite), Ground Zero, Ataraxia and so on...
...even drummers like Steve Smith explains that some of his songs are based on drumgrooves,like "take eight", great one!!
Vinnie Colaiutas "Iīm tweaked", Weckls "Mild Hysteria", I think itīs called so..
...you get the point anyway, there is nothing wrong that kind of concept!

I think itīs like you say Kirk that drummers/musicians who says that itīs unmusical to base a song on a drumgroove canīt melt the fact that they are monsters most of them and that themself never will reach that level.

jimi
06-16-2003, 02:00 PM
I just think it's strange why they have to put a person down instead of appreciating what they have achieved, but as i said before different people think in different ways.

Originally posted by kyrah
they are saving a lot of time... 2min. frustration versus 20 years of practising...

Kyrah's attempt at explaining it makes a bit of sense :)
I'm not angry at them, just curious why?